The Unique load quoted is very mild, but should go bang regardless. Not surprised that it is milder than factory loads.
First batch of 38 Special
- Thread starter PhillyB
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Absolutely
Also of note regarding Unique powder, there is an older and a newer formulation. The older powder was known to be kinda dirty, leaving more residue and unburnt powder than other powder options, while the newer version is supposed to burn a bit cleaner. Although I have both on hand, I'm still trying to use up my older formulation and have not tried the newer version yet.
I have used the "new" unique and it is only slightly less "dirty", from the pic of Phillyb's canister it looks to be of the "new" formulation. Should be a date code at the bottom of the label in back.
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Old Unique and "cleaner burning" Unique both live here. The "cleaner burning" Unique has uniformly given about 40 to 75 fps more velocity than the older Unique for some loads I've standardized. So far I've only chronograph tested .32-20, .38S&W, .38 Special, and .41 Long Colt, shooting batches loaded with "cleaner burning " Unique side-by-side with batches prepared with older lots of Unique. Of course this isn't any more than what might be expected in any lot-to-lot differences with any powder.
I never cared a hoot about the assertion that Unique was a "dirty burning" powder, even before the "cleaner burning" formulation. It never caused any issues and besides, I always clean the guns between each shooting use anyway.
Unique seems to burn dirty in mild charge weights. Unique also gives large velocity variations with mild, low pressure loadings and produces more smoke. As charge weights progress from about medium charge weights to near maximum full charge weights Unique does an about face and burns pretty clean. Extreme spreads become tighter.
Have wondered if Unique is sometimes unfairly blamed for burning dirty when its the bullet lube on cast lead projectiles that is the culprit.
I never cared a hoot about the assertion that Unique was a "dirty burning" powder, even before the "cleaner burning" formulation. It never caused any issues and besides, I always clean the guns between each shooting use anyway.
Unique seems to burn dirty in mild charge weights. Unique also gives large velocity variations with mild, low pressure loadings and produces more smoke. As charge weights progress from about medium charge weights to near maximum full charge weights Unique does an about face and burns pretty clean. Extreme spreads become tighter.
Have wondered if Unique is sometimes unfairly blamed for burning dirty when its the bullet lube on cast lead projectiles that is the culprit.
Man you have some old-"old" and some old-"new" unique there, I remember when the "new" formula in the orange cans came out, I want to say early 2000's and ran through 2012ish. Maybe we should start a thread
" Post pic's of your powder" LOL...Just for shixxx and giggxxx here is a can of the new-"new" unique from 2018.
- Thread starter
- #28
Pretty sure the powder isn't the issue, or my 32-20 would have been just as bad.
I think the 38 Special I own just doesn't like those Winchester primers. And upping the powder charge probably wouldn't hurt.
I think the 38 Special I own just doesn't like those Winchester primers. And upping the powder charge probably wouldn't hurt.
Something is not right if you're getting squib loads. That shouldn't happen and could be very dangerous if you lose your concentration and fire another round before removing the bullet from your barrel.
I doubt the primers are your problem. Winchester wouldn't be in business if their primers failed regularly.
Unique is a good powder. I've used it for thousands of 38 special rounds without issue. Since you have kept your powder/primers dry and they have worked in another caliber round, I suspect they are fine. Since you're using a dipper to charge your rounds there might be some small load variation from round to round, but since you actually see the power funnel into the brass, I doubt you are forgetting to charge rounds or are so drastically undercharging them that your bullet won't make it to the end of your barrel.
The only thing I can think of is that your bullets aren't seating properly. The depth that your bullets are set is perfect. You're right on the crimp lines. I think the issue might be your brass. When you insert the bullets, there should be some tension - they shouldn't just plop in. I've noticed with Remington brass, sometimes it doesn't resize the way other brands do and the bullet sits deep and loose. I wonder if that's what is going on with you. I suggest trying different brass - either brass you've resized yourself or possibly some new brass. (Starline is reasonably priced.)
Another suggestion is to talk to people with experience. Bring some of your reloads to your local gunshop or range, tell the folks you meet what is happening, and see what they say. There are some really generous, knowledgeable people who enjoy helping others, particularly when it comes to matters of safety.
Good luck.
I doubt the primers are your problem. Winchester wouldn't be in business if their primers failed regularly.
Unique is a good powder. I've used it for thousands of 38 special rounds without issue. Since you have kept your powder/primers dry and they have worked in another caliber round, I suspect they are fine. Since you're using a dipper to charge your rounds there might be some small load variation from round to round, but since you actually see the power funnel into the brass, I doubt you are forgetting to charge rounds or are so drastically undercharging them that your bullet won't make it to the end of your barrel.
The only thing I can think of is that your bullets aren't seating properly. The depth that your bullets are set is perfect. You're right on the crimp lines. I think the issue might be your brass. When you insert the bullets, there should be some tension - they shouldn't just plop in. I've noticed with Remington brass, sometimes it doesn't resize the way other brands do and the bullet sits deep and loose. I wonder if that's what is going on with you. I suggest trying different brass - either brass you've resized yourself or possibly some new brass. (Starline is reasonably priced.)
Another suggestion is to talk to people with experience. Bring some of your reloads to your local gunshop or range, tell the folks you meet what is happening, and see what they say. There are some really generous, knowledgeable people who enjoy helping others, particularly when it comes to matters of safety.
Good luck.
Well shoot! I'm gonna have to go get me some "new-new" Unique so I can be in style with up-to-date cans. Hah!
The photo was taken a few years back, but I didn't think it was all that long ago. There are quite a few cans of Unique on hand, but none in the current style can.
I can do even older propellant powders. There's old H4831 in there, Reloder 11 in the squatty cans, Unique in the squatty cans, Winchester BR 680, 700X, Hi Vel No. 6, Alcan AL 5 and AL 8 in the square cans, and this: an unopened can of Du Pont Pistol No. 5.
The photo was taken a few years back, but I didn't think it was all that long ago. There are quite a few cans of Unique on hand, but none in the current style can.
I can do even older propellant powders. There's old H4831 in there, Reloder 11 in the squatty cans, Unique in the squatty cans, Winchester BR 680, 700X, Hi Vel No. 6, Alcan AL 5 and AL 8 in the square cans, and this: an unopened can of Du Pont Pistol No. 5.
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- #31
Thats not the issue. I sized the brass myself, and the bullets fit very snugly into the brass. Even a partially seated one is impossible to remove by hand.
simon1
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Try the CCI primers. It's what I have mostly used with no problems. Your squib loads are a mystery to me...that load should have been just fine. Lodged bullets are not good. Those jacketed bullets should have slid down the barrel just fine.
I used to load about 22 gr. of H-110 behind a 210 grain Sierra hollow point in the .41 mag. Worked well. Here's the Max. load I used in the '70s. You have to go through the caliber, bullet weight, manufacturer, and the powder questions, along with the disclaimer thing, before it will let you into the info.
Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading
Oh...that didn't help, did it.
I do need to pick up some Bullseye for some .38 target loads. The only thing close to that burn rate I have is Unique...a very old can. Looks kinda like noelekal's old can, but it's got the metal top closure on it that you have to pry off instead of the plastic flip caps. I ain't digging it out right now for a pic. I also have an old Sierra manual but I ain't digging that out right now either.
From what you've said...you have consulted manuals, know what your are doing, and I don't see where you have went wrong. But...don't trust your powder measure, dipper or crank handle dump, until you have checked it with a good scale...where the scale is zeroed in.
From the Alliant Powder site those loads are not hot and not that weak.
Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide
Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide
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Well shoot! I'm gonna have to go get me some "new-new" Unique so I can be in style with up-to-date cans. Hah!
The photo was taken a few years back, but I didn't think it was all that long ago. There are quite a few cans of Unique on hand, but none in the current style can.
I can do even older propellant powders. There's old H4831 in there, Reloder 11 in the squatty cans, Unique in the squatty cans, Winchester BR 680, 700X, Hi Vel No. 6, Alcan AL 5 and AL 8 in the square cans, and this: an unopened can of Du Pont Pistol No. 5.
That's cool, I love seeing old powder cans!
Somewhere in my loading room I have some truly ancient balloon head .38 Special brass. It came in with a pretty large lot of mixed brass I bought, and I only discovered it because the flash holes in the cases are smaller than modern brass. They hung up in the resize/deprime process. I have noticed that Remington brass is thinner than pretty much any other brand. I have come to prefer Starline.
I have loaded and fired a few thousand winchester primers without problems. It's possible you got a bad lot, or some that had picked up moisture due to poor storage. If you've used that same can of powder without problems in another cartridge, I would probably rule it out. Even if the cases have good neck tension, do they have enough crimp on the bullet?
I have loaded and fired a few thousand winchester primers without problems. It's possible you got a bad lot, or some that had picked up moisture due to poor storage. If you've used that same can of powder without problems in another cartridge, I would probably rule it out. Even if the cases have good neck tension, do they have enough crimp on the bullet?
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- #35
simon1
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That looks like a good crimp to me. Maybe the bullet could have been seated a bit lower for the cannelure?
It looks to me as though the crimp is in the cannelure. It has been a while and I have loaded thousands of 38 rounds with Unique, as well as a lot of 35 Remington with the 158 gr Keith wadcutter (designed for 38 special) for my dad when he got older and did not like recoil, and a lot of 30-06 using cast bullets, and never had a problem wit squib loads. In my early days while in college I made some dippers for various powders and loads, calibrating them with a scale before I finally got an adjustable powder measure. I had made a powder trickler from a piece of brass rod, a piece of old flared copper tubing with fitting that was soft soldered to a square steel base. This was back about 1964 and I still use it liking it better than any of the commercial models I have seen.
I agree. Might have crimped a little heavier myself, but it should be enough.
simon1
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I agree. It's in the cannelure and a decent roll crimp, but a little more wouldn't hurt.
That charge and crimp looks like it should have worked well. The squibs are a mystery to me. Start over with the CCI primers and a touch more crimp for a few test rounds and see what happens. If it gets the same results it has to be the powder, although if the Unique has been stored properly it should last for decades. Sierra bullets are top notch. I've put lead bullet loads in the .41 mag. down to about 600 fps. that were so slow that when I shot at a tree from about 15 yards the bullet came bouncing back on the ground like a rock skipped across a pond and hit me in the leg. Barely felt it hit. A BB gun would have stung more.
And check the dipper charge weight with a zeroed scale.
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simon1
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Or try some lead bullets with everything the same and see if it does the same thing.
