Finishing & Lapping Natural Hones

[global_dev]

i haven't seen more than passing info on lapping natural hones and to what finish, so i was hoping to make a compendium on types of hones and what grit (And maybe what vehicle DMT, W/D, Film, Micromesh, other naturals or synthetic hones?) people are using to get to the final finished lapped state. (if i have missed such a list or it's int he wiki, please let me know)

1. CNAT (PHIG, C12K)
3. Coticule - yellow
5. BBW
7. JNAT (does it matter regarding HGAL?)
9. Lynn Idwal
11. Charnley Forest
13. Thuringian
15. Escher
17. Grecian
19. Zulu Grey
21. Welsh Slate
23. Dragons Tongue (DT)
25. Arkansas
27. Dalmore Blue
29. Tam O' Shanter
31. Water of Ayr
33. Cutler's Green
35. i can't think of any others off the top of my head

NOT REALLY LOOKING FOR MORE STONE NAMES, UNLESS YOU PROVIDE THE LAPPING PROGRESSION.
Thanks folks

 

[Bushdoctor]

Moughton whetstone,Silkstone, Yellow Lake, Turkish oilstone, Cretan hone, Hindostan, Magog oilstone,Silkvein hone, Schwedenstein and many more.

 

[smalltank]

there are many...there I said it....

 

[global_dev]

Guys, the point of my thread is not to name all the hones, but info on lapping them.

But thanks for the addl types.

So an example would be XYZ hone- Atoma 400 -> Atoma 1K -> 3k w/d

 

[thepusher]

This is more of what not to do for Arkansas stones, do not use DMT diasharp plates to lap these stones, for you will end up with a plate with no diamonds!

 

[mainaman]

lap with 325 DMT, it works great.
If DMT is not available, sand paper on flat surface will do as well.
If you ask about smoothing the stone, then go all they way to 1500 sand paper, or 1.2k DMT or 1.2K Atoma, then use a natural slurry stone to smooth the surface completely.
It really should work the same for any natural.

 

[xuzxuz]

I have a funny routine for naturals.
I'll lap my Chosera 1k with DMT 325.
If the natural is very uneven then I'll lap that with DMT 325.
Then I'll lap the natural with 1k.

I just don't like how DMT leaves scratches on softer stones like Escher.
I have 1200 DMT also, but do not use it to remove scratches.
DMT always seem to gather particulates, and leave one ore two scratches.
Using ceramic stones like Chosera 1k always leaves surfaces on naturals nice and smooth.
Not saying that's good, it's just how I do it.

 

[Bushdoctor]

Usually I start to lap the stone with a coarse sandpaper, like 120, for make the dirty job, than, I use the DMT 120 and DMT 325, if the stone to lapping is a finisher, I use sandpaper 1000 grit for final lap.
This method is used from me for every kind of stones.

 

[Doc226]

I have lapped all my stones with a DMT 325.

My first JNAT and smoothed out the surface with the tome after it was lapped as well. The surface of the stone is reflective.

My coticules I just lap with the DMT and rub a slurry stone on them.

 

[global_dev]

lap with 325 DMT -> smoothing all they way to 1500 sand paper, or 1.2k DMT or 1.2K Atoma, then use a natural slurry stone to smooth the surface completely.

lap Chosera 1k with DMT 325 -> If natural uneven then I'll lap with DMT 325. ->Then lap natural with 1k.

W/D 120 -> DMT 120 -> DMT 325 -> W/D 1000 grit for final lap.

lap with a DMT 325 -> smooth surface with the tomanagura/slurry stone

So no one so far goes past 1.5K for lapping? it isn't dependent on stone final grit? the slurry stone or tomanagura typically smooths out the lapping from the ~1K?

so if i take the CNAT and lap it to 1K, the surface reflects 1K and if i take the slurry stone to it, it should reflect the CNAT natural finish? so for an thuringian that doesn't come with slurry stones, on occasion, what are you folks recommending? 1K and be done? as XuZx2 and bushdr posted?

 

[Doc226]

So no one so far goes past 1.5K for lapping? it isn't dependent on stone final grit? the slurry stone or tomanagura typically smooths out the lapping from the ~1K?

so if i take the CNAT and lap it to 1K, the surface reflects 1K and if i take the slurry stone to it, it should reflect the CNAT natural finish? so for an thuringian that doesn't come with slurry stones, on occasion, what are you folks recommending? 1K and be done? as XuZx2 and bushdr posted?

I don't believe it matters much. I lap my Naniwa with the 325 after each use, I don't do anything after them and never has "weird" scratches on the bevel. After the 8K the bevel is almost mirror like.

 

[xuzxuz]

I usually only go upto chosera 1k or DMT 1200.

The scratching happens to all stones, but Escher shows it the best because it's dark and scratches show up gray.

I just don't like those scratches.
If I spent maybe 2 more minute on Chosera, the whole surface of Escher would look like 1 instead of 2.
(I didn't lap my chosera before this, which is probably why only one side got smoothed.)
I'm not even sure if they effect the honing at all, since I use little to no pressure on any polishing stones,
but I guess I'm just superstitious.

 

[global_dev]

I usually only go upto chosera 1k or DMT 1200.

The scratching happens to all stones, but Escher shows it the best because it's dark and scratches show up gray.

I just don't like those scratches.
If I spent maybe 2 more minute on Chosera, the whole surface of Escher would look like 1 instead of 2.
(I didn't lap my chosera before this, which is probably why only one side got smoothed.)
I'm not even sure if they effect the honing at all, since I use little to no pressure on any polishing stones,
but I guess I'm just superstitious.

hmm, i don't recall that type of scratches on my stones at DMT 325, definitely not at DMT 600. I just lapped a Charnley Forest and it came out looking dull and velvety at 325, but not scratched like that. At least i don't recall that. Although i am doing more figure eights on my smaller hones... less than 8",

but the huge charnley got a similar treatment mostly back and forth, a tinyt bit of figure eights... perhaps i lapped it to the point that scratches were covering 100% of the surface and therefore it wasn't obvious like your image.

 

[Brooksie967]

I've never seen scratches like that off my 325 either. by 600 they're gone, by 1200 my jnats have a mirrored surface. Using a slurry or other stone improves the finish on the stone but at what gain in performance? Very little factual/scientific testing has been done on this and the NORM seems to be 325 or 600. Some people say that the higher the grit for finishing stones the better but I haven't noticed any improvement between 600 and 1200 or higher except on my jnats.

Lots of guys will use a really hard Ark after lapping to remove any other scratches and give a very uniform and smooth surface. There is no ill effect by going higher than 325 or whatever but probably not that much is going to be noticed as far as getting a better edge.

At the end of the day whatever you choose to do is up to you but i wouldn't leave a stone BELOW 325.

 

[jpcwon]

I'm like Doc in that I just use a (well-worn) DMT 325 to lap my finishers. Never have really seen scratches like that either, but I too do figure 8's so maybe that makes a difference? I guess I just never thought to go higher than that. the 325 seems to work fine for me & I get great edges from my finishers, so I figure leave well enough alone...

 

[Doc226]

No doubt the polished side looks better, but does that really make a difference? I have not found it to be true.

 

[PapaFish]

On my Chinese Natural I have had the best luck with W/D sandpaper from Harbor Freight. I have used Norton sandpaper, and a new sheet of 320 cuts way too slow. The Harbor Freight stuff seems to slurry (so it doesn't last as long), but I have removed deep scratches and saw marks in very little time using the low grit (240?). I have finished razors after lapping with the 240, 500, and 1200 grit HF W/D. They all shaved well, but the edge was better as I went up in finishes 1200. Another thing to note is that for whatever reason, CNats like to repel water from their surface. This is true for the 240 and 500 grit finished faces, along with a polished face (using it's slurry stone), but for some reason the 1200 grit finish makes water stick to the surface. For these reasons I just go as far as 1200 and leave it at that, and get great results.
I suppose I should say that my slurry stone/CNat don't make much of a slurry. Several minutes of rubbing yield the lightest amount of slurry one could hope for, so I use the CNat as a "Finishing only" stone. My little 2"x2" slurry stone gets no love!

 

[global_dev]

I've read people heading upwards to 3K and I've tried to 1um film, just to see... as quickly as its polished, its just as easy to drop back down. Just fir sh¡ts and giggles... but it appears that past 1.5k really isnt that common.

 

[mainaman]

So no one so far goes past 1.5K for lapping? it isn't dependent on stone final grit? the slurry stone or tomanagura typically smooths out the lapping from the ~1K?

so if i take the CNAT and lap it to 1K, the surface reflects 1K and if i take the slurry stone to it, it should reflect the CNAT natural finish? so for an thuringian that doesn't come with slurry stones, on occasion, what are you folks recommending? 1K and be done? as XuZx2 and bushdr posted?

When you use a slurry stone after the 1.5k sand paper you are going much higher in smoothness.
My Jnats reflect like mirrors after I further smooth them with another jnat.

 

[global_dev]

They reflect dry or with water?