Film Talk (WARNING: Spoilers!)

[luvmysuper]

Thought I'd start this thread instead of cluttering up the "Last Movie You Watched" thread with chit-chat.
My intent is to have a place where folks can talk about films they have seen, and observations, which may include spoilers, so for those who have not seen the film being discussed, it's in a separate area where they may choose not to participate.

 

[luvmysuper]

The Ballad of Buster Scruggs

I mentioned I had re-watched "The Ballad of Buster Scruggs" by the Coen Brothers who created such iconic films such as Raising Arizona, Fargo, The Big Lebowski, O Brother, Where Art Thou?, No Country for Old Men, and True Grit with Jeff Bridges.
I had previously taken the last of the 6 separate stories on it's face value and had concluded that it was just an awkward finishing piece during my previous viewings.
For some reason, several things clicked in my last viewing, partially because I was watching it with the wife, and had paused the film several times, each time while I waited for her return, I noticed things that had somehow escaped me before and which led me to a completely different interpretation of this last story than I had previously held.
Much like my experience with the Mel Gibson film "Signs", where I came to believe that the story intended by the maker was that the "aliens" in the film were not Aliens from another planet at all, but Demons set upon the earth, a concept that was not readily apparent upon face value.
Perhaps my observations are not a revelation to those more astute than I, but here is my take on The Ballad of Buster Scruggs last vignette.
I believe that the three passengers (the Trapper, the Gambler, and the Elderly Wife) were dead, and this coach ride was their transportation to the portal to the hereafter. A sort of purgatory where souls are sorted out and directed to their final destination.
In the previous 5 stories, death was a vital part of each story. Death was a common thread of all of the stories. Who, where, how and why. In the final story, no one died. Why? Because they were already dead.
The two "Bounty Hunters", who had described themselves as Reapers, were actually manifestations of the Grim Reaper.
They state clearly that in their business, there are only two kinds of people: Alive and Dead.
Mrs. Betjamin kept referring to her husband, who was waiting for her to join him, in the past tense.
The buildings across the street from the hotel are clearly just building fronts, a cheap show to calm arriving passengers until they work out what was really going on.
The Coachman would not stop the coach. As said by one of the Reapers "The Coachman won't stop. He never does. Policy".
The description by that same Reaper of watching the eyes of the dead as they slowly realize that they are transitioning from living to dead.
The comments by the Reapers, back and forth when asked about their employment:
“I like to say that we’re… reapers.” says one. “Harvesters of souls,” clarifies the other, “We help people who have been adjudged to be ripe.”
The reluctance of the passengers to disembark from the coach, a crowded uncomfortable spot, and proceed to the hotel entrance.
The orange glow of the lights in the basement of the hotel representing hell and the white glow of light coming down the staircase leading to the upper level of the hotel representing heaven.
The plates above the door of the hotel itself confirm this, with an angel above the left door, and a devil above the right.
That the coach, rather than riding on to a stop, turned around and went back the way it came.
Finally, that the coach departed without unloading any baggage for the three passengers who had just been dropped off at the hotel.
No need for luggage, they wouldn't need any.

What do you think?

 

[Doc4]

Much like my experience with the Mel Gibson film "Signs" I came to believe that the story intended by the maker was that the "aliens" in the film were not Aliens from another planet at all, but Demons set upon the earth, a concept that was not readily apparent upon face value.

If you accept the invading aliens at face value, that is a really dumb film. Thank goodness for metaphor.

What do you think?

Pan shot!

 

[The Knize]

Great post, Phil. I cannot respond right now!

 

[luvmysuper]

Great post, Phil. I cannot respond right now!

Look forward to hearing from you later!

 

[The Knize]

Look forward to hearing from you later!

Well, you have sucked me in, Phil. Beats working!

First, I really like most Coen Brothers films and thought Buster Scruggs, was fabulous from front to back. (The San Saba songbird.)

I think your analysis of the last of the six chapter of the movie, "The Mortal Remains," is spot on. I think you are right about Signs, too, but I do not remember it as well, and am not as into it. Even with the aliens being demons, not a great movie to me.

Yes, everyone is dead in the last chapter and the hotel is the final destination, they are being transported to. Yes, the coachman never stops. It is the policy. He is death itself, I suppose. The reapers are true reapers! Harvesters of souls. There is a lot written about this chapter. Apparently the lighting starts off very warm and then turns cold and blue at the hotel.

And absolutely, no baggage unloaded. None is needed where they are going.

Lots of time to philosophize about life and death as they ride along.

Great movie and your analysis is exactly right! There is some good commentary out there about how the Coen's are not nihilists. Great mixture of genres. Westerns, horror/supernatural movies, musicals, I suppose. Themes of greed and evil and what it means to be a good person in a complex, indifferent at best world. What does it mean to be alive, to have lived. Even the inhumanity of show business.

 

[luvmysuper]

They have made some amazing films, and their version of True Grit was much truer to the book than the John Wayne version.

 

[The Knize]

I had forgotten about True Grit until you mentioned it. Excellent film. I agree, much closer to the book than JW's version. They are good at westerns. I would have thought No Country for Old Men could not be made into a movies, but I really liked that movie, as much as one can say they like something as horrifying as that . Another western, I suppose.

Westerns have a lot to say about the human conditions. To paraphrase David Foster Wallace "[Westerns] are about what it means to be a human being." He put it more strongly!

Buster Scruggs as such a great character. Partly nice, cleanly dressed song-singing guy. Partly psychopath! Don't let appearances fool you, or whatever he says.

 

[luvmysuper]

I had forgotten about True Grit until you mentioned it. Excellent film. I agree, much closer to the book than JW's version. They are good at westerns. I would have thought No Country for Old Men could not be made into a movies, but I really liked that movie, as much as one can say they like something as horrifying as that . Another western, I suppose.

Westerns have a lot to say about the human conditions. To paraphrase David Foster Wallace "[Westerns] are about what it means to be a human being." He put it more strongly!

Buster Scruggs as such a great character. Partly nice, cleanly dressed song-singing guy. Partly psychopath! Don't let appearances fool you, or whatever he says.

A few points that, to me, really indicate his true nature:

The part in the desert at the beginning when he holds up the wanted poster and says "Misanthrope? I don't hate my fellow man. Even when he's tiresome and surly and tries to cheat at poker. I figure that's just a human material" and then goes on to disparage the nature of mankind - missing entirely, despite the fact that he is so loquacious, that the definition of misanthrope is one who generally dislikes and distrusts the human species, human behavior, or human nature.

The part where he tells Surly Joe's brother, "Buster Scruggs don't shoot nobody in the back", having just come from the cantina where the last bullet he fired was squarely into the back of the barkeeper. Admittedly, the barkeeper was reaching up for a scattergun, but still... the barkeeper had not yet tried to pull it down.

And finally when Surly Joes brother mistakenly calls him the "West Texas Twit" instead of the "West Texas ***, on account of that particular bird's mellifluous warble." the look that passes over his face is enough to kill on the spot, and leads to the fellow being methodically tortured by having his fingers shot off before being unnecessarily killed, as illustrated by the playful way he's killed with a trick shot while looking in a mirror. Buster has his back to the fellow, obviously indicating that Buster feels the man is no threat at all.

As an aside, two great parts in the cantina scene that I just noticed this last watching - when he first walks in, kicks the door shut and pats the dust off, he steps forward and for a moment, there is a perfect dust ghost outline of him that quickly fades and passes. And then, when he does finally shoot that bartender in the back, for the briefest of moments, the sunshine streaming in through the cracks in the wall can be clearly seen streaming through the hole that Buster just placed in the barkeeps back.

 

[The Knize]

Another great posting, Phil. I love this stuff, and everything you wrote seems spot on. There is a lot that goes into a good movie and a lot that is working at a subliminal level. Shakespearean almost, isn't it.

Buster really does consider himself a good guy, doesn't he. He is a funny kind of smug on the surface. He is a worse kind of arrogant not far beneath! Sanctimonious, perhaps.

I will have to re-watch this movie again. I really like that part about the dust ghost outline and the light though the bullet hole. I had not noticed, but these points seem significant.

Yes, "West Texas Twit"!

 

[luvmysuper]

I will have to re-watch this movie again. I really like that part about the dust ghost outline and the light though the bullet hole. I had not noticed, but these points seem significant.

Here's a still shot from the film of each part I meant, and a clip of the cantina scene from youtube.

 

[The Knize]

Those are wonderful. I love film!

 

[Doc4]

A few points that, to me, really indicate his true nature:

Buster really does consider himself a good guy, doesn't he. He is a funny kind of smug on the surface. He is a worse kind of arrogant not far beneath! Sanctimonious, perhaps.

He departs the movie, and this world, singing about "when a cowboy trades his spurs for wings" (wings, I take it, being the means to ascend to Heaven). He sings this both with wings ... and spurs.

Does this mean that he doesn't really get the wings? Or does he get the wings and get to keep the spurs? For all his failings does he get to go to Heaven ... or do the spurs indicate that the wings won't stay ... won't get him there?

Maybe it ain't that kind of movie? If people are looking at his spurs, we're all in big trouble.

 

[luvmysuper]

Does this mean that he doesn't really get the wings? Or does he get the wings and get to keep the spurs? For all his failings does he get to go to Heaven ... or do the spurs indicate that the wings won't stay ... won't get him there?

I noticed it as well, and I thought it wasn't that kind of movie, at first.
After the "Mortal Remains" revelation it occurs to me that he's enroute his own judgement and it hasn't yet been revealed to him whether he gets the wings or the spurs for keeps.
Then again, it's not documentary style to pull out a mirror to check out the bullet hole in your forehead, so who knows, right?

 

[The Knize]

Maybe it ain't that kind of movie? If people are looking at his spurs, we're all in big trouble.

I might have said in past that it was not that kind of movie, but postings in the thread convince me that it is very much that kind of movie! And that this kind of scrutiny of detail is rewarding more often than not. I think it kind of honors the Directors. And, of course, continuity is a tough task!

Should he get the wings? That is a very good question. I would think he should not. Among other things, hubris is a sin and an insult to the deity, too, and I think Buster is loaded with hubris.

 

[luvmysuper]

I might have said in past that it was not that kind of movie, but postings in the thread convince me that it is very much that kind of movie! And that this kind of scrutiny of detail is rewarding more often than not. I think it kind of honors the Directors. And, of course, continuity is a tough task!

Should he get the wings? That is a very good question. I would think he should not. Among other things, hubris is a sin and an insult to the deity, too, and I think Buster is loaded with hubris.

If anything, the Coen brothers have proven themselves to be aware of minute detail.
There was an interview with Tim Blake Nelson, and he spoke about how critical it was to them that he step just to the right mark, and pat himself just so, and step forward.
He said he didn't understand the point at the time, but later, when he saw the dust ghost behind his character, a light went on for him and he said it was brilliant.

 

[The Knize]

That is really fun to know, Phil. I kind of thought this film was deep, but I did not know how deep!

 

[luvmysuper]

That is really fun to know, Phil. I kind of thought this film was deep, but I did not know how deep!

That interview is here

'The Ballad Of Buster Scruggs' Star Tim Blake Nelson On Working With The Coen Brothers And Preparing For HBO's 'Watchmen' - SlashFilm

Tim Blake Nelson and the Coen Brothers finally reunite with The Ballad of Buster Scruggs, now on Netflix. Check out our Tim Blake Nelson interview.

www.slashfilm.com

 

[The Knize]

Good film is as complex and important as good literature and good poetry. Like DFW said, and I say, it is what it is to be an f__ing human being! Actually, perhaps it may transcend what it means to be a human being in the ordinary sense.

“Good [film's] job is to comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable.”​

Buster Scruggs and the rest of the Coen bros work is good film.

 

[Space_Cadet]

I just recently watched their movie "A Serious Man" and loved it. But I didn't like "Fargo" and "The Man Who Wasn't There".