Fili love what makes it so good!

[Doc226]

And Alfredo has a Spanish name so it's only right. Being of English descent, please send me all your sheffield blades!

Middle name is Jens so I need the Swedish ones too.

 

[BakerAndBadger]

Middle name is Jens so I need the Swedish ones too.

Left myself wide open there!

 

[Stubblefield]

Filis are WAY overrated, everyone needs to stop buying them, in fact you should send me yours for proper disposal.

And Alfredo has a Spanish name so it's only right. Being of English descent, please send me all your sheffield blades!

Middle name is Jens so I need the Swedish ones too.

Well I'm Irish, so send me all your . . . Irisch Moos?

Anyone here have both earlier and later production blades that can comment on their quality?

 

[Sando]

Here is some extra food for thought when considering the steel. Unfortunately, not much is known about the earliest production when it comes to Filarmonica razors. If one scours the fora in other languages, there are three primary theories which predominate, two of which hold water.

The Toledo steel to which I believe you're referring was indeed born out of techniques borrowed from the Moors combined with recycled, quality Roman iron ore 2,500 years ago. However, it's unlikely that any of that made it into our razors since such production more or less ended around the 18th century.

The next theory is that all of the early blanks, along with any other 14-stamped blank, came from the Henckenrath forgery in Solingen. There has never been any more concrete evidence to support this idea other than comparison of (many) similar blade profiles which often tend to perform just as similarly.

And finally, those whose knowledge of 20th century Spanish societal gears far exceeds mine would say that during the years that Jose Monserrat Pou was operating (roughly 1915 to 1979), it would have been Swedish steel that was highly-valued and all the rave in Spain. Again, not much more to substantiate this.

The other curiosity is that the photos in this thread reveal another consideration...there are at least three different generations of Filarmonica shown. The earlier two are very likely to contain the same steel, but the last does not. When JMP passed away, his son took over briefly before passing shortly after his father. Then with the transition to his daughter came changes in production, particularly to material sourcing. A great number of sources seem to agree that razors made in the later years after JMP's death (noted by the lack of his name stamped on the tang) are made of steel purchased from Pakistan and then manufactured and sold in Spain.

Thanks for posting this info. I've been wanting a Fili, now I know what to look for.

 

[wrl]

Are 13s and 14s the same metal if the herkenrath postulation is correct?

Yes, up until ~1979, at least.

I'd really like some one to identify the different generations. Is it the stamp placement of JMP? The mismatch of model names in shank and face.

Ok, the number of generations is arguable. I'll call it four distinct periods with caveats. We can see three in this thread. The first point to realize is that there are only two basic Filarmónica models -- the Especial (not initially 'Para Barbas Duras') & Doble Temple. As far as we can tell, all others are variations of the two original models. What is the difference between the two? I could go on and on about miniscule grind differences, profiles, and blade weights, but my personal suspicion is that JMP was just marketing more (Especial) & less (Doble Temple) decorated versions of the same razor.

The second point is that it is not my wish to offend anyone's sensibilities or insult their razors with my descriptions. If you like your razor, then enjoy it in good health...these are just my thoughts.

Third, I won't cover every variation of every marking, scale, box, gold seal, and re-branding lest I be at this all night.

And finally, these are my observations based on (mostly) personal experience as well as discussions with others over the years. Although Filarmónica isn't my very favorite, I like old French and Spanish razors, so I geek out on this kind of gouge. I don't purport my findings to be absolutes. Please do find concrete information to challenge my assertions.

1. First Generation: Jose Monserrat Pou's initial offerings - ~1915 - 1967.

• Pre-1950 versions will NOT have "FABRICACION ESPAÑOLA / MADE IN SPAIN" stamped on the rear of the tang

• Three main iterations of the "Especial" model (in order; transitional anomalies exist)
  • Tang shows curved Jose Monserrat Pou with stylized eagle (IMPERIAL brand), tall & vertical "14"
  • Tang shows IMPERIAL brand, straight Jose Monserrat Pou, short & horizontal "14" with lyre
  • Tang returns to curved Jose Monserrat Pou & tall/vertical "14", but with "FILARMONICA"
    • These would also have the 'musical' Especial/Filarmonica gold seal on the blade face
    • New white box with "Especial Para Barbas Duras" - the original EPBD

• The original "Doble Temple"
  • Tang similar to Especial with curved Jose Monserrat Pou, tall & vertical "14", and "FILARMONICA"
  • A different gold seal on the face, most notable attribute being the "JMP" initials in the center
    • Collectors will refer to this as a "JMP signature blade", the initials were later replaced by the lyre
    • See my earlier image for a pristine example; these are more rare and more highly valued by some
    • The rest of the gold seal might have been generic; I've found a Carl Friedrich Ern Crown & Shield with the same seal design

• The "Medallon Taurino" limited edition, bullfighting series was introduced
  • They're just Doble Temple 13s with six bullfighting themes on the face
  • Banderillas, Capote, Estocada, Cogida, Muleta, and Rejoneo
  • Three total iterations found across three generations of Filarmonica (anyone up to collect all 18?)
• The "Sub Cero" was a cryo-treated Doble Temple. Tang stamp conventions apply. It stuck around into the next generations.

2. Second Generation: I call it the "Filarmonica Aesthetic Period" (FAP...fapfapfapfapfap...) - 1967-1979.

• The company seems to have decided that pretty makes profit, and thus updated their look.
  • New scales (a few versions), gold seals, and tang stamps mark this era.
  • Tang stamps settled into a uniform style with small horizontal number, lyre, JMP, model, and Filarmonica
• The Especial blossomed into the more ornate Especial Para Barbas Duras with laser etching and tang grommet.
• The Doble Temple continued as the brand's steadfast workhorse, steady as she goes.
• Four more models appeared
  • TRIDUR Especial Para Barbas Duras - Trivalent chromium coating for less corrosion. It's harder to hone until the outer coating is removed. Name is on the face, otherwise identical to the EPBD.
  • Novodur Para Profesionales - not much known, though the marketing goal is clear. Notable are the embossed scales from the EPBD, third pin in the scales, model on the tang, and gold seal similar to Sub Cero
  • Especial Para Corte de Pelo - narrow EPBDs made for hair cutting with attachment. "Corte Cabello" on the face.
  • INOX / INOXIDABLE - stainless steel Doble Temple. I don't like stainless, so not much to say there. Most were 3rd gen and don't bear JMP's name.

3. Third generation: Jose Monserrat Pou passed away sometime in the late '70s - early '80s. His son took over for a brief period, apparently continuing to sell out the old stock of materials. This is a murky period which I avoid. Straight razors were banned from Spanish barbershops in 1985 (Hepatitis & HIV?) and safety/cartridge razors had taken over worldwide, so the diminished demand (along with JMP's absence) had a direct affect on production. Many people have declared success with these razors, but they are considered hit or miss by collectors.

• Key identifier is JMP's name having disappeared from the blades altogether
• These are the razors you see in black "Sello Oro" boxes
• Quality control was on the fritz with blade faces not matching tang stamps and other issues (lots of these on ebay from Japan)

4. Fourth generation: JMP's son died shortly after his father, then the daughter took over. The company closed a few years later in 1990.

• Very hard, brittle steel sourced from Pakistan - takes an edge, but falls apart sooner than expected
• No tang marks, only perfunctory "FILARMONICA -DOBLE TEMPLE-" etched on the face
• Some have Sello Oro packaging or just plastic sleeves
• Simply avoid these unless you're a collector

The first gen blades are considered by some to be the highest quality Filarmónica produced. I believe this is partially a matter of nostalgia, because when examining the first two generations historically & practically (on hones and face), there doesn't seem to be a difference between them with regard to steel and grinding. There is no reason that the earliest third gen razors shouldn't perform as well as previous generation blades, but any razor lacking Jose Monserrat Pou's name is a gamble. For those of you who got the good ones, congratulations! But caveat emptor to anyone on the hunt for a new Filarmónica.

 

[Heespharm]

Yes, up until ~1979, at least.



Ok, the number of generations is arguable. I'll call it four in total with caveats. We can see three in this thread. The first point to realize is that there are only two basic Filarmónica models -- the Especial (not initially 'Para Barbas Duras') & Doble Temple. As far as we can tell, all others are variations of the two original models. What is the difference between the two? I could go on and on about miniscule grind differences, profiles, and blade weights, but my personal suspicion is that JMP was just marketing more (Especial) & less (Doble Temple) decorated versions of the same razor.

The second point is that it is not my wish to offend anyone's sensibilities or insult their razors with my descriptions. If you like your razor, then enjoy it in good health...these are just my thoughts.

Third, I won't cover every variation of every marking, scale, box, gold seal, and re-branding lest I be at this all night.

And finally, these are my observations based on (mostly) personal experience as well as discussions with others over the years. Although Filarmónica isn't my very favorite, I like old French and Spanish razors, so I geek out on this kind of gouge. I don't purport my findings to be absolutes. Please do find concrete information to challenge my assertions.

1. First Generation: Jose Monserrat Pou's initial offerings - ~1915 - 1967.

• Pre-1950 versions will NOT have "FABRICACION ESPAÑOLA / MADE IN SPAIN" stamped on the rear of the tang

• Three main iterations of the "Especial" model (in order; transitional anomalies exist)
  • Tang shows curved Jose Monserrat Pou with stylized eagle (IMPERIAL brand), tall & vertical "14"
  • Tang shows IMPERIAL brand, straight Jose Monserrat Pou, short & horizontal "14" with lyre
  • Tang returns to curved Jose Monserrat Pou & tall/vertical "14", but with "FILARMONICA"
    • These would also have the 'musical' Especial/Filarmonica gold seal on the blade face
    • New white box with "Especial Para Barbas Duras" - the original EPBD

• The original "Doble Temple"
  • Tang similar to Especial with curved Jose Monserrat Pou, tall & vertical "14", and "FILARMONICA"
  • A different gold seal on the face, most notable attribute being the "JMP" initials in the center
    • Collectors will refer to this as a "JMP signature blade", the initials were later replaced by the lyre
    • See my earlier image for a pristine example; these are more rare and more highly valued by some
    • The rest of the gold seal might have been generic; I've found a CF Ern with the same outer design

• The "Medallon Taurino" limited edition, bullfighting series was introduced
  • They're just Doble Temple 13s with six bullfighting themes on the face
  • Banderillas, Capote, Estocada, Cogida, Muleta, and Rejoneo
  • Three total iterations found across three generations of Filarmonica (anyone up to collect all 18?)
• The "Sub Cero" was a cryo-treated Doble Temple. Tang stamp conventions apply. It stuck around into the next generations.

2. Second Generation: I call it the "Filarmonica Aesthetic Period" (FAP...fapfapfapfapfap...) - 1967-1979.

• The company seems to have decided that pretty makes profit, and thus updated their look.
• New scales (a few versions), gold seals, and tang stamps mark this era.
• Tang stamps settled into a uniform style with small horizontal number, lyre, JMP, model, and Filarmonica
• The Especial blossomed into the more ornate Especial Para Barbas Duras.
• The Doble Temple continued as the brand's steadfast workhorse, steady as she goes.
• Five more models appeared
  • TRIDUR Especial Para Barbas Duras - Trivalent chromium coating for less corrosion. It's harder to hone until the outer coating is removed. Name is on the face, otherwise identical to the EPBD.
  • Novodur Para Profesionales - not much known, though the marketing is clear. Notable are the embossed scales from the EPBD, third pin in the scales, model on the tang, and exclusive gold seal
  • Corte de Pelo - narrow Doble Temples made for hair cutting. "Corte Cabello" on the face.
  • INOX - stainless steel. I don't like stainless, so not much to say there. Most were 3rd gen and don't bear JMP's name.

3. Third generation: Jose Monserrat Pou passed away sometime in the late 70s - early 80s. His son took over for a brief period, apparently continuing to sell out the old stock of materials. This is a murky period that I avoid. Straight razors were banned from Spanish barbershops in 1985 and safety/cartridge razors had taken over worldwide, so the diminished demand (along with JMP's absence) had a direct affect on production. Many people have declared success with these razors, but they are considered hit or miss by collectors.

• Key identifier is JMP's name disappearing from the blades altogether
• These are the razors you see in black "Sello Oro" boxes
• Quality control was on the fritz with blade faces not matching tang stamps and other issues (lots of these on ebay from Japan)

4. Fourth generation: JMP's son died shortly after his father, then the daughter took over. The company closed a few years later in 1990.

• Very hard, brittle steel sourced from Pakistan - takes an edge, but falls apart sooner than expected
• No tang marks, only perfunctory "FILARMONICA; -DOBLE TEMPLE-" etched on the face
• Some have Sello Oro packaing or just plastic sleeves
• Simply avoid these unless you're a collector

The first gen blades are considered by some to be the highest quality Filarmónica produced. I believe this is partially a matter of nostalgia, because when examining the first two generations historically & practically (on hones and face), there doesn't seem to be a difference between them with regard to steel and grinding. There is no reason that the earliest third gen razors shouldn't perform as well as previous generation blades, but any razor lacking Jose Monserrat Pou's name is a gamble. For those of you who got the good ones, congratulations! But caveat emptor to anyone on the hunt for a new Filarmónica.

Damn good post!

 

[noahpictures]

Thanks wrl for the helpful post!

 

[P Funk]

Awesome - thanks!

 

[FILLY14]

The easiest razor you will ever hone and in my opinion the finest shavers up there with the best Japanese razors.

 

[Thomas Martin]

Damn. And thus a much loved and treasured razor that I purchased for big dollars just turns into a pile of junk from Pakistan. I'm glad I still have that DT with JMP on the tang. Doc, shall I send you my Subcero for proper disposal?

Just kidding. I think I was rather lucky with my 3gen Subcero. It's a very fine blade in every aspect safe for the lack of JMP's name on the tang.

 

[CanonSterVa]

Damn. And thus a much loved and treasured razor that I purchased for big dollars just turns into a pile of junk from Pakistan. I'm glad I still have that DT with JMP on the tang. Doc, shall I send you my Subcero for proper disposal?

Just kidding. I think I was rather lucky with my 3gen Subcero. It's a very fine blade in every aspect safe for the lack of JMP's name on the tang.

Have to agree...
Damn good post by WRL and damn if I do not have a later generation Fili 14.
But the later generation is being complimented by an earlier generation Fili 14.
So must search on with the best of them for another Fili 14...
Myron

 

[Stubblefield]

Damn. And thus a much loved and treasured razor that I purchased for big dollars just turns into a pile of junk from Pakistan. I'm glad I still have that DT with JMP on the tang. Doc, shall I send you my Subcero for proper disposal?

Just kidding. I think I was rather lucky with my 3gen Subcero. It's a very fine blade in every aspect safe for the lack of JMP's name on the tang.

Turns out I have one of those as well. It will be interesting to compare it with my Second Gen.

 

[Thomas Martin]

So I think it is safe to assume, that the one above is a 2nd gen Filly whereas the one below would be a 3rd gen, right?

 

[kiwichris]

Yes I think that's right.

I have a 1st iteration Especial 14 and a 2nd gen Doble Temple 13 on their way to me direct from Spain right now ... I can't wait!

 

[kiwichris]

Here's the Especial...

 

[kiwichris]

And the DT 13...

 

[Sharpchef]

Very interesting thread!

Here`s some information from the herkenrath company:

Ferner schmieden wir seit unserer Gründung 1905 als einzige Schmiede in Deutschland noch Rasiermesser-Rohlinge aus Spezialstahl.
That means: In addition since our founding in 1905 we are the only blacksmithing company in germany that produces razor blanks out of special steel. ---With Special steel they rever to silversteel 1.2210 - 115CrV3.

I showed them pictures of many 14 stamped blades, but as most parts of their archive was destroyed in WW2 they can`t say if they delivered to all of them. (the razor companys, like Fillarmonica, Beter, Zwilling and so on)
But they told me that they sold many blanks to spanish wholesalers in the past.
They usually sold their blanks with completed heat treatment, and this would be the explanation of the constant quality of the german razors in the past, and of the 14 blades as well.

I honed many Fillis, there is nothing special about the steel, its only about the very thin grind, the most showed up, that makes them so easy to hone, and the nice sound they produce while stropping and shaving.

greetings Sebastian

 

[sarimento1]

here's a newly acq'd fili 12, courtesy ron in sweden.
shaved great with just a strop on crox then soft leather.

 

[Attila]

Yes, up until ~1979, at least.



Ok, the number of generations is arguable. I'll call it four distinct periods with caveats. We can see three in this thread. The first point to realize is that there are only two basic Filarmónica models -- the Especial (not initially 'Para Barbas Duras') & Doble Temple. As far as we can tell, all others are variations of the two original models. What is the difference between the two? I could go on and on about miniscule grind differences, profiles, and blade weights, but my personal suspicion is that JMP was just marketing more (Especial) & less (Doble Temple) decorated versions of the same razor.

The second point is that it is not my wish to offend anyone's sensibilities or insult their razors with my descriptions. If you like your razor, then enjoy it in good health...these are just my thoughts.

Third, I won't cover every variation of every marking, scale, box, gold seal, and re-branding lest I be at this all night.

And finally, these are my observations based on (mostly) personal experience as well as discussions with others over the years. Although Filarmónica isn't my very favorite, I like old French and Spanish razors, so I geek out on this kind of gouge. I don't purport my findings to be absolutes. Please do find concrete information to challenge my assertions.

1. First Generation: Jose Monserrat Pou's initial offerings - ~1915 - 1967.

• Pre-1950 versions will NOT have "FABRICACION ESPAÑOLA / MADE IN SPAIN" stamped on the rear of the tang

• Three main iterations of the "Especial" model (in order; transitional anomalies exist)
  • Tang shows curved Jose Monserrat Pou with stylized eagle (IMPERIAL brand), tall & vertical "14"
  • Tang shows IMPERIAL brand, straight Jose Monserrat Pou, short & horizontal "14" with lyre
  • Tang returns to curved Jose Monserrat Pou & tall/vertical "14", but with "FILARMONICA"
    • These would also have the 'musical' Especial/Filarmonica gold seal on the blade face
    • New white box with "Especial Para Barbas Duras" - the original EPBD

• The original "Doble Temple"
  • Tang similar to Especial with curved Jose Monserrat Pou, tall & vertical "14", and "FILARMONICA"
  • A different gold seal on the face, most notable attribute being the "JMP" initials in the center
    • Collectors will refer to this as a "JMP signature blade", the initials were later replaced by the lyre
    • See my earlier image for a pristine example; these are more rare and more highly valued by some
    • The rest of the gold seal might have been generic; I've found a Carl Friedrich Ern Crown & Shield with the same seal design

• The "Medallon Taurino" limited edition, bullfighting series was introduced
  • They're just Doble Temple 13s with six bullfighting themes on the face
  • Banderillas, Capote, Estocada, Cogida, Muleta, and Rejoneo
  • Three total iterations found across three generations of Filarmonica (anyone up to collect all 18?)
• The "Sub Cero" was a cryo-treated Doble Temple. Tang stamp conventions apply. It stuck around into the next generations.

2. Second Generation: I call it the "Filarmonica Aesthetic Period" (FAP...fapfapfapfapfap...) - 1967-1979.

• The company seems to have decided that pretty makes profit, and thus updated their look.
  • New scales (a few versions), gold seals, and tang stamps mark this era.
  • Tang stamps settled into a uniform style with small horizontal number, lyre, JMP, model, and Filarmonica
• The Especial blossomed into the more ornate Especial Para Barbas Duras with laser etching and tang grommet.
• The Doble Temple continued as the brand's steadfast workhorse, steady as she goes.
• Four more models appeared
  • TRIDUR Especial Para Barbas Duras - Trivalent chromium coating for less corrosion. It's harder to hone until the outer coating is removed. Name is on the face, otherwise identical to the EPBD.
  • Novodur Para Profesionales - not much known, though the marketing goal is clear. Notable are the embossed scales from the EPBD, third pin in the scales, model on the tang, and gold seal similar to Sub Cero
  • Especial Para Corte de Pelo - narrow EPBDs made for hair cutting with attachment. "Corte Cabello" on the face.
  • INOX / INOXIDABLE - stainless steel Doble Temple. I don't like stainless, so not much to say there. Most were 3rd gen and don't bear JMP's name.

3. Third generation: Jose Monserrat Pou passed away sometime in the late '70s - early '80s. His son took over for a brief period, apparently continuing to sell out the old stock of materials. This is a murky period which I avoid. Straight razors were banned from Spanish barbershops in 1985 (Hepatitis & HIV?) and safety/cartridge razors had taken over worldwide, so the diminished demand (along with JMP's absence) had a direct affect on production. Many people have declared success with these razors, but they are considered hit or miss by collectors.

• Key identifier is JMP's name having disappeared from the blades altogether
• These are the razors you see in black "Sello Oro" boxes
• Quality control was on the fritz with blade faces not matching tang stamps and other issues (lots of these on ebay from Japan)

4. Fourth generation: JMP's son died shortly after his father, then the daughter took over. The company closed a few years later in 1990.

• Very hard, brittle steel sourced from Pakistan - takes an edge, but falls apart sooner than expected
• No tang marks, only perfunctory "FILARMONICA -DOBLE TEMPLE-" etched on the face
• Some have Sello Oro packaging or just plastic sleeves
• Simply avoid these unless you're a collector

The first gen blades are considered by some to be the highest quality Filarmónica produced. I believe this is partially a matter of nostalgia, because when examining the first two generations historically & practically (on hones and face), there doesn't seem to be a difference between them with regard to steel and grinding. There is no reason that the earliest third gen razors shouldn't perform as well as previous generation blades, but any razor lacking Jose Monserrat Pou's name is a gamble. For those of you who got the good ones, congratulations! But caveat emptor to anyone on the hunt for a new Filarmónica.

Fabulous info! Thank you!

 

[FILLY14]

I have both first and second generation models a very early mint Especial 8/8 and a NOS Novodur Para Professional plus I've owned a restored most of the others.