Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Not kidding! Think about it.
Filarmonica boxes and scales
- Thread starter Sukeroku
- Start date
You know, the other part of this that gets forgotten is that JMP was in business for a *long* time. It would be silly to assume that his sourcing and production stayed exactly the same over the course of 60 years.
It's not the worst theory I've heard, just caught me off guard.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Exactly
Do we know that razors were actually made during WWII? The other thing is, when I read the one original post about the different generations. Where do these dates come from? They seem pretty exact. Is it based on some sort of documentation found or just one person writes something and the rest of us keep repeating it.
A member of a Spanish forum has made a recompilation about the Filarmónica razors information found on the net.
If I'm not allowed to share the link, please delete the post.
If I'm not allowed to share the link, please delete the post.
A member of a Spanish forum has made a recompilation about the Filarmónica razors information found on the net.
If I'm not allowed to share the link, please delete the post.
I think you will find we are not disputing who was selling them, the argument is who was making them, there are hundreds of companies who sell and own a brand but don't make them, Korrat is a brand, but all his blanks are made in Germany.
I will try to get more information about it.
- Thread starter
- #109
Fantastic pdf...thank you for sharing.A member of a Spanish forum has made a recompilation about the Filarmónica razors information found on the net.
If I'm not allowed to share the link, please delete the post.
I am very sorry, but that statement is only half right. Yes, hardly any straight-razor making tradition prior to the XXth century, but you really need to have lived under a rock not to have heard about Toledo steel, very appreciated throughout the centuries.
Even during the XXth century, the Northern Coast of the country, particularly the Basque Country used to be littered with steel factories. Stating that Spain had no history of producing steel is just misinformation, at best.
I have traveled widely throughout Spain since the 1960s, my Grandmother had a holiday home in Barcelona for many years which I regularly visited, I also stayed many times in the Basque country my favorite little fishing just down the coast of Santander the village of San Vincente La Barquera, and I'm of the opinion that Spain has never been a country that produces steel or blades in numbers or quality worth mentioning, nothing you can say will change my opinion on that. PS although they do make exceptionally good Paella.
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Haha, fair enough..... You can choose to take a stance against history, it's your right.
Although I might disagree about paella. The exceptional kind of one is the least common of all.
I had seen that before but I hadn't read it very carefully. Some interesting things stand out, some speculative and some definitive.A member of a Spanish forum has made a recompilation about the Filarmónica razors information found on the net.
If I'm not allowed to share the link, please delete the post.
1. They were definitely producing razors during the period of the Spanish Civil War, as evidenced by the company being collectivized from around 1936 until the end of the war. The operation was in Caldetas at the time, and it appears for some time prior, as there is a Cabeza León box shown that is marked Caldetas and is dated 1936. At other points presumably before and after the war the operation was centered in Mataró (which is only a few miles away but not the same town).
2. The author of this document speculates that "probably the forge had always been in Caldetas."
3. There is a legal notice, published in January 1941 which describes an appeal in the matter of Jose Monserrat attempting to sell the "industry of manufacture of razor blades sited in Caldetas" to Juan Wollmer (Vollmer). The sale was denied, apparently due to a law prohibiting sale of industrial property to foreigners, and the appeal also failed. Since it cites a 1939 law that the terms of the sale did not satisfy, we can assume that the sale was attempted some time between late 1939 and 1941. This implies that JMP was probably moving his operations back to Mataró after the end of the civil war and wanted to unload the Caldetas site. It also implies that both Vollmer and Monserrat were planning to make and sell razors in Spain after World War 2 was already underway.
3a. (my own speculation): whether or not they were sourcing blanks from abroad at this time(which seems kind of unlikely given the war in Europe but maybe not impossible), we can infer that the operation in Caldetas was more than just a warehouse. At the very least blades would have been ground there, if not forged.
4. The document implies, although without citation unfortunately, that the Monserrat Cabeza León branding predated the Spanish Civil War, so pre-1936, and that the JosMon, Imperial, and various iterations of the Filarmonica branding emerged after that war. Which, *if* that were true, means that the Imperial, which we've speculated has a German connection, would have been sold in the midst of the second World War. But, even with the apparent visual connection to the German Reichsadler, I would note that there is literally a species of eagle native to Spain called the Spanish Imperial Eagle (sometimes Iberian Imperial Eagle). So that logo could have easily been homegrown, too.
5. There is an image on Page 22 that records the following: "D. Antonio Monserrat Corney [Jose's father], resident of Mataró, Santa Teresa 36. Introductory patent for five years for 'A procedure for fabricating filarmonic razors number 14'. Request submitted in the civil government of Barcelona on April 13, 1918. File received on the 18th of the same, Granted the patent on the 19th of the same."
It's not clear from the original if "navajas de afeitar filarmónicas número 14" is simply a description (like we would refer to a "singing razor") or if it is a brand. And again there is no citation so it's unclear what the publication was but it looks like a patent/trademark registry. Regardless, a "procedure for fabricating" seems like it would be more involved than just "buying blanks from Solingen and stamping our name on it." It would be really helpful to read the actual application, but I fear those records may not be easily accessible even if they do exist.
I am sorry, but in the 60s, the single most important company of Spain was AHV, a basque metallurgy company (there were more, of course). You say you stayed many times in the basque country. Well in the 60s, again around 50% of the basque people worked for metallurgic or metallurgic related companies (including my old man).
You also mentioned being in Cantabria. Peña cabarga and Cabarceno (you know it as a "nature" park if you have been there in recent times) were already under iron extraction at the time when Roman empire reached that part of the world.
You are of course free to stand wrong. I just want to add some info (real info) so others can have a bit of extra information from someone born in the area you claim to "know" by visiting.
What I have no idea is about the origin of Filarmonica blanks, but there was plenty of steel available of national origin.
Have a terrific day.
Well I cannot imagine why many of the old Solingen German grinders would say all 14 blanks were made by them including the Filarmonica blanks if they were not, I'm not going to turn this into a game of Tennis your serve next, I'm of a completely different opinion and for me all roads lead back to Germany, but I have absolutely no issues with your beliefs or opinion.
Perhaps this could be the crux of the matter. You are talking specifically about the blanks. Unfortunately, there is not enough documented history in this regard to prove either of us right or wrong. As far as I am concerned, using foreign made blanks or steel doesn't diminish the work of those who work and grind those blanks, otherwise Koraat's razors wouldn't be considered his, Swedish steel Japanese razors would not be considered Japanese, so on, so forth, you catch my drift. Regardless, it is your belief Filarmonicas are German, fair enough.
I do have qualms, however, with people stating opinions as facts, as you did about Spain not having any tradition producing steel, when centuries of well documented history prove otherwise. I've always thought that sharing information on forums should be done in a responsible manner. People will read this thread, they will see your posts. Obviously you are an elocuent person, so people might take what you say at face value, and will remain under the false impression that Spain has no tradition producing steel.
That is plain wrong, and it is not a matter of opinion, it is a fact.
Superb document and if I have time I'll attempt to translate this for non Spanish speaking/reading members here.A member of a Spanish forum has made a recompilation about the Filarmónica razors information found on the net.
If I'm not allowed to share the link, please delete the post.
I happen to live not to far away from Barcelona and just this weekend found a beautiful 1st Gen 14 JMP in a "boot sale" for €10.00. I'm wondering now how many I have walked by in the past.
So now I have four 14's. 3 1st Gen and one 2nd. 2 of those still have the full width of blade.
They all shave very nicely and are forgiving. I tend to prefer the shave after I've touched up the blade with my (extremely hard) coticule.
Anyway, where I live is littered with old steel mines and foundries. So whatever anyone says about Spanish not having their own steel makers is really not very well researched.
