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Filarmonica 12 Novodur progression (USB microscope)

Put my new Filarmonica 12 'Novodur' through a Suehiro 1K / Suehiro 3K / Sjapton 8K / Namiwa 12K SS progression.
Comments/tips ?
Fili@before.jpg

Edge as received (approx. 250x)

Fili@3K.jpg

After 3K (lost the 1K photo)

Fili@8K.jpg

After 8K

Fili@12K.jpg

After 12K

After shaving with the edge this afternoon I will decide whether to leave as is, or maybe a little touch up with my Coticule.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Give that edge the only true test and shave with it.

The bevel surface looks good off the 12k but as @alex1921 said, the bevel edge does not look fully set. It could just be photographic trickery.
 
Just finished shaving, and actually I was pretty happy with the edge. Gave myself a couple of tiny weepers, and the after shave and alum block provided plenty of sting, but that usually indicates to me that it's sharp but could be smoother. I did a 'touch up' pass with a Karve CB (F plate) and it felt like there was no blade in the razor. I used the thumb nail test for the bevel and am inexperienced with it so might go back and set it again using the burr method.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
It shouldn't take much to reset the bevel. Just take your time and watch your pressure as you step up through your grits. It will be interesting to hear if there is any improvement in the edge shave test.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
On such a nice blade I personally would avoid the bur method. I think you could lightly kill the edge then set the bevel easily.
I would normally agree with your advice, however @bernie01 has little experience in bevel-setting. Using the burr method would probably be best for him at his current level of honing skill. It would be better he gain his non-burr bevel-setting experience on something like a Gold Dollar or cheap Titan SR. Then he can hone away to his heart's desire without worrying about putting excessive spine wear on the blade.

I don't think that using the burr method on this SR is going to be detrimental. The bevel is very near to a proper set and very little work should be required to obtain his burrs.

Comparing the as-received photo against his honed photos, it would appear that the OEM bevel was set with the spine raised off the honing surface (taped?). This probably produced a shaveable edge. His subsequent honing (I expect without tape) appears to have not extended all the way to the edge.

Of course my comments are only based on what I can interpret from the photos supplied.
 
I used Kapton tape, thinner than the usual 3M and similar electrical tapes; I changed the tape a couple of times during the progression, so little to zero spine wear. I coloured the bevel with red Sharpie at the beginning; it was soon all gone all the way to the apex. I also 'jointed' the edge on the side of the whetstone before beginning. I continued at 1K level for some time, and also spent quite a bit of time at 3K. The edge cut arm hair after that, so I progressed to the 8 and 12K.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
I sounds as though you did everything right. How about just taking it back to the 8k and refinishing again on the 12k. See if that gives any noticeable edge improvement.

Doing half a dozen or so short X strokes on the 12k at the end of you honing may also mellow the edge for you, making the blade more comfortable to shave with.

If you find the above gives some noticeable improvement, repeat it after each shave until there is no more noticeable improvement. Then, after another dozen shaves, try it again.
 
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Agree with not learning how to hone on the nice razor - I personally suggest a user grade vintage to learn with.

From my experience honing, just going to the 1k or even 3k for normal x strokes would be best. Could go to the 8k take a photo after and compare. Either way just have fun honing, cheers.
 
Unless I'm misinterpreting the photos, it looks like not much happened on the 8k, except maybe the apex went backwards a bit? (Or maybe it became more visually obvious at that point).Hard to say from here. I would expect to see more refinement at that level.
 
Just finished shaving, and actually I was pretty happy with the edge. Gave myself a couple of tiny weepers, and the after shave and alum block provided plenty of sting, but that usually indicates to me that it's sharp but could be smoother. I did a 'touch up' pass with a Karve CB (F plate) and it felt like there was no blade in the razor. I used the thumb nail test for the bevel and am inexperienced with it so might go back and set it again using the burr method.
The weepers, sting etc actually indicate that the razor is not sharp enough/refined enough.

Just an experience from the other week. Razor passed thumb nail test but just felt on HHT that it wasn't all there. Shave was so so. Some tugging but i could finish a full shave except ATG on upper lip. I looked under the scope, 100x true magnification using a metallurgical scope, and the very edge of the razor wasnt really refining as I would expect. Tiny amount but it was there. Added a layer of kapton tape since this razor has been used and abused over the years and the geometry seems to be off. That fixed it. Even under 1000x the very edge looked perfect. The shave was immensely better.
Don't settle for good enough.
 
The 8k edge doesn't look as straight as it should be. You've got some chips/toothiness going on. The shiny bits right at the apex are either wire edge or not fully set bevel showing up better than the previous pictures.

The weepers, sting etc actually indicate that the razor is not sharp enough/refined enough.
100% true. I've suffered through many harsh shaves that turned magically smooth after I refined the edge.

I would also find a cheaper razor to get some more honing experience with. Even though it's "only" a Filly 12, it's still a really nice blade and it would be a shame to mess it up. I have one myself and it can deliver fantastic shaves.

The problem I have with the burr method is that if there's something preventing the burr forming from heel to toe (e.g. honing on the stabilizer, heel needs correction, smiling blade, etc.) you're going to waste a lot of steel trying to get that burr along the full length. Guess how I know.
 
Put my new Filarmonica 12 'Novodur' through a Suehiro 1K / Suehiro 3K / Sjapton 8K / Namiwa 12K SS progression.
Comments/tips ?
View attachment 1583542
Edge as received (approx. 250x)

View attachment 1583543
After 3K (lost the 1K photo)

View attachment 1583544
After 8K

View attachment 1583545
After 12K

After shaving with the edge this afternoon I will decide whether to leave as is, or maybe a little touch up with my Coticule.
The image of the 8k edge clearly shows a burr. In my opinion, when you hone a razor you don't need a bigger burr then that. So, for this section of the blade the bevel should be set. However, the refinement should probably have been more similar to the 12k edge image.
The SS12k is a really soft stone. If the razor is allowed to stick to the stone, or too much pressure have been used at the 12k stage, this is enough to micro convex/round the apex.

I would just revisit the 8k and finsh with feather light strokes on the 12k.
It seems like you are more or less happy with the edge.
Take a small victory ✌️ and make a small adjustment to improve the edge a little.
You probably don't not need to go back to start. The shapton 8k is a fast stone...
 
You are a new honer? Nice work, you are very close.

A few tips, when taking micrographs, photograph the same spot so you can compare improvement, pick a defect on the belly or mark a dot with a sharpie for registration.

Alternate you finish laps on each stone from straight to 45 degree, this way you can easily see if you are removing all the previous stria.

Try stropping on linen between stones to remove all loose flashing and get the edge flat on the stone.

No need to intentionally make a Burr, just look straight down at the edge with magnification, if you see any shiny spots or reflections that is where the bevels are not meeting or a chip.

Joint the edge, (a single light stroke) after each stone, look down at the edge with magnification. With the edge jointed, if you see dark spots, those are chip or where the bevels are not meeting, the whole edge should be shiny after jointing. Reset the edge in 10-15 laps then move up to the next stone.

Jointing will cut off any burr or light flashing and make a straight edge, then you just have to get the bevels to meet, once the bevels are flat it does not take many laps to bring them back to meeting. Strop after jointing.

For final laps, ensure that the 12k is freshly lapped clean and edges beveled or rounded. Super stones will load up and if you finish on the swarf, it can damage a good edge.

So, your bevels are likely, very close to fully meeting. First look straight down on the edge and see where your problem areas are. You can joint the edge and drop to the 8k and fully set it, checking by looking straight down on the edge and finish on the 12k.

Or joint, strop and add a layer of tape, and reset the edge, in probably 10-15 laps.

You are very close, good work so far.

Here are two photo of an edge, one with bevels near meeting, the other fully meeting, red arrows are the edge.

1 chipped.jpg
2 FULLY SET.jpg
 
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