What's new

Fighting windmills (Muhle R89 vs R41)

thombrogan

Lounging On The Isle Of Tugsley.
Hoping your next shaves are less harsh, @stivek

As @Guido75 said, Feathers usually last longer in tighter clamping razors. Though some folks just use applied physics and a shallow angle or a steep angle, insanely light touch, and the aid of demons to get a bunch of shaves from a Feather
 
R41 + Feather(2) ... and my worst shave ever

So, it happened - I got a shave which I hope will not get again.
Decided to use a Feather blade which was previously used 2 times in R89 with good results (8/10 because of me experimenting with a different technique and 9/10). This shave is barely 6/10.

The rest of the setup was:
Muhle STF 21 brush
Linkidea bowl
Proraso pre-shave
Tabac soap
Capt. Fawcett alum bar
Tabac EDC

View attachment 1594529

Used a Proraso preshave with menthol and eucalyptus as on the previous shave the Tabac soap dried a little bit on my face. Definitely not the same effect as when the pre-shave is used with the Proraso soaps. Not sure if it is because of the ingredients of the Proraso soaps or because my Tabac lather had a little more water than the previous time.
But it was impressive how quickly the lather builds with the Muhle STF and with so small amount of the soap. This time I left more water in the brush, didn't shake it, just squeezed it in a loose O ring made with my index and thumb fingers. 3-4 rounds on top of the soap and the lather exploded. Then moved to my bowl where it started overflowing. I got a lather for at lease one more shave and it didn't dry on the face this time.

The start on the shave was surprisingly harsh. Tried to change the angle but the feeling was like the blade is scratching the face barely cutting something.
Did the usual 2 1/4 passes where I do XTG only on my lower neck area, but after all that there were so many places for fixing, so I just relathered the wlole face and started buffing. The final result was a relatively smooth shave, comparable with the result of the Muhle blade on the 4th use. But there was some redness, few weepers and 2 nicks. Never been so bad and I can't say my skin is very sensitive to harsh treatment.
The post-shave treatment with the alum bar and the Tabac EDC fixed the things and now my skin looks good with no sighs but when I test it ATG I can feel it is not the smooth I got on the previous shaves with R41.
Not sure if the bad performance is because I previously used the blade in R89 and it wears differently in it, or because I have turned the blade on the opposite side than it was seated in R89 (few shaves before tested flipping the Muhle blade in R41 and it really felt more harsh on the next shave).

Anyway, the life continues and a new shave will come. Will try one more with the same Feather and on some of the next shaves with start with a new Feather.
Still exploring and enjoying.

Smooth shaves, gents :straight:
Feather blades often only provide a couple of good shaves for many B&Bers. The reason is that in order to deliver one of the sharpest blades the hone angle from the blade edge is much narrower than that of other blades per microscope analysis. Posted on this a while back. Since razor blades wear by microchipping when cutting hair the narrow angle means there is a lot less steel to resist damage. Again YMMV per hair characteristics and technique but unless you've successfully realized more than a couple shaves from other Feather blades you may find that shave quality keeps going downhill with each shave.
 
Less sharp blades can lead to an uncomfortable tugging or pulling sensation. Try a steep angle and very sharp blade combo with the R41.

This is a very important point with the R41! Milder razors with a less sharp blade might glide right over the hair shaft.

The R41 is designed with a lot of blade exposure. It is designed to directly confront a hair. When an R41 head skims the surface of your face and comes into contact with a hair, its mission objective is to directly cut through that hair while the hair remains in a position perpendicular to the skin.

Given a sufficiently sharp blade, it will do exactly that. If used with a dull blade, the R41 will still attempt to cut through the hair in this manner. If the blade is dull, it will definitely tug and pull, more so, than when used in a less agressive razor.
 
Last edited:
First shave with an R41 this morning! Threw my trusty Dorco ST300 in and away I went. Definitely experienced a noticeable sound difference from the blade ripping through my day old whiskers. Two passes with no irritation and smooth as butter. Awesome shave and look forward to trying with a Feather!
 
R41 & new Feather blade

The plan was to arm the R41 with a new Feather blade and to compare with the previous disastrous shave.
The rest of the setup was as previously, so I'm not posting a picture:
Muhle STF 21 brush
Linkidea bowl
Proraso pre-shave
Tabac soap
Capt. Fawcett alum bar
Tabac EDC

Unfortunately, this shave had to be a quick 1.5 passes without being able to concentrate much on the technique.
The result was better than the previous shave - 8/10. But in the hurry I got few nicks, one cut and significant irritation in the lower part of my neck, which is always my weakest spot. Probably, due to the 3 passes I did there striving for smoothness and also the airly lather, which leaving more water in the STF lead to.

The lesson: R41 & Feather is a wild animal. You have to tame it carefully and gently. Not a good combination for a shave in a hurry. But when you got the right angle it is like a Tibetan meditation with the blade singing on your skin.

Smooth shaves gents :straight:

P.S. I ordered my first boar brush - SEMOGUE Galahad-C3 Premium IR, as the STF was intended as a travel brush, not for everyday use. Can't wait to arrive in her beautiful imperial red color. I already know what will be her name "The little lady in red" :001_wub:
 
R41 & new Feather blade

The plan was to arm the R41 with a new Feather blade and to compare with the previous disastrous shave.
The rest of the setup was as previously, so I'm not posting a picture:
Muhle STF 21 brush
Linkidea bowl
Proraso pre-shave
Tabac soap
Capt. Fawcett alum bar
Tabac EDC

Unfortunately, this shave had to be a quick 1.5 passes without being able to concentrate much on the technique.
The result was better than the previous shave - 8/10. But in the hurry I got few nicks, one cut and significant irritation in the lower part of my neck, which is always my weakest spot. Probably, due to the 3 passes I did there striving for smoothness and also the airly lather, which leaving more water in the STF lead to.

The lesson: R41 & Feather is a wild animal. You have to tame it carefully and gently. Not a good combination for a shave in a hurry. But when you got the right angle it is like a Tibetan meditation with the blade singing on your skin.

Smooth shaves gents :straight:

P.S. I ordered my first boar brush - SEMOGUE Galahad-C3 Premium IR, as the STF was intended as a travel brush, not for everyday use. Can't wait to arrive in her beautiful imperial red color. I already know what will be her name "The little lady in red" :001_wub:
You are indeed correct Stivek….The R41 plus a feather does not equal anything good if you’re in a hurry!👍😊💈
 
German razors do not need aggressive blades in my opinion. What they need is soap to allow a closer shave. I assume you have tried the MUHLE soap. I was getting one pass shaves with Personna another German made.

When I think of Feather it is more for control like a shavette. You need a minimum of 12 days with a Feather to get the benefits.

Enjoy your TABAC. They now make several new kinds you might like.
 
German razors do not need aggressive blades in my opinion. What they need is soap to allow a closer shave. I assume you have tried the MUHLE soap. I was getting one pass shaves with Personna another German made.

When I think of Feather it is more for control like a shavette. You need a minimum of 12 days with a Feather to get the benefits.

Enjoy your TABAC. They now make several new kinds you might like.

I still can't conclude which blade works best in R41 for my technique, skin, soap and all other variables which a good shave depends on. My best R41 shave, so far, was with a Muhle blade on the 2nd use, but this means nothing as I don't have many shaves with this razor. I have a good variety of blades, including the German's Personna, to experiment in the next shaves.

Regarding Muhle soap - I have the Sandalwood version but used it only once with another razor. In my plans is to try it with R41 and R89.
And TABAC is great. Will try the other kinds, for sure. Thanks for informing me about them 🍻
 
I still can't conclude which blade works best in R41 for my technique, skin, soap and all other variables which a good shave depends on. My best R41 shave, so far, was with a Muhle blade on the 2nd use, but this means nothing as I don't have many shaves with this razor. I have a good variety of blades, including the German's Personna, to experiment in the next shaves.

Regarding Muhle soap - I have the Sandalwood version but used it only once with another razor. In my plans is to try it with R41 and R89.
And TABAC is great. Will try the other kinds, for sure. Thanks for informing me about them 🍻
When I first started I had trouble lathering. Get one of the Muhle cream to compare your consistency, they should be about the same. The soap is the better lather now for me and it takes only a few minutes more. Muhle also makes soap sticks. Muhle USA said the organic line is also worth trying for the first timer.

I started with a Rapira and it is a lot more aggressive than a standard Gillette tech. You might like comparing the R41 to the Rapira Swedish Super Steel. I get better shaves with the Rapira for WTG and smoother.

The R41 I used this week with the Treet Dura Sharp. You might like talking with @dmshaver for trying some. You give 2 of your brand for 2 of another.
 
The lesson: R41 & Feather is a wild animal. You have to tame it carefully and gently. Not a good combination for a shave in a hurry. But when you got the right angle it is like a Tibetan meditation with the blade singing on your skin.

I think you will find that after the initial shave, the Feather settles down. While I do note the quality of my experience with the first shave with any blade, I don't begin to be judgemental until the 2nd shave.

Keep on mind that you are shaving with The Beast razor and the Super Ultra Sharpest of razor blades.

Considering this most terrifying of combinations, I'd say you came through the ordeal relatively unscathed.

I think you will find your next shave to be more pedestrian of an experience...
 
R89 ... there is smooth and there is R41 smooth

Decided to give my skin some rest from the latest R41 torture I put it and went for the R89 paired with a new Feather blade.

The rest of the setup:
Frank Shaving badger brush
Linkidea ceramic bowl
Proraso Green pre-shave
Tabac soap
Capt. Fawcett alum bar
Tabac EDC

Did a full passes wanting to achieve the same smoothness as I sensed it with the R41 - WTG, XTG, ATG. Some fixes on the typical problematic areas.
It was soo much easier with R89. My strokes were much more confident even with the sharp Feather.

The end result is great 9.5/10. No sights of any damage to the skin.
If I have never used R41 before, I would confidently give 10/10, but as it looks like "There is smooth and there is R41 smooth". R41 brings the things to a different level which seems I'm not possible to reach with a mild razor, even with the sharpest blade.
Will do another R89 + Feather shave tomorrow and next will go for R41 with Feather on second use and then will compare the results.

Excuses for not taking a photo but the variety in my hardware is not big and I don't find sense posting the same things every time.
Smooth shaves gents :straight:
 
Last edited:
If I have never used R41 before, I would confidently give 10/10, but as it looks like "There is smooth and there is R41 smooth". R41 brings the things to a different level which seems I'm not possible to reach with a mild razor, even with the sharpest blade.

I discovered the same thing. Having shaved for 50+ years, I never really gave shaving much thought.

You take a razor, run it across your face. You feel the blade against your face and hairs come off. You have just shaved. Seems simple enough? Your face is now smooth. What more could there be?

In my more recent return to DE shaving, I discovered a closeness that I hadn't realized in the past.

But, after using the R41 head, no matter how good my other razors shave, there is something special about the extra closeness of the R41. I happened to use it earlier today with the Voskhod (2).

You have only now had a few shaves with the R41 now. It's my bet, that after you get past the "psychological" aspect of the razor, you will shave with it just as you do with your R89.
 
R89 ... there is smooth and there is R41 smooth

Decided to give my skin some rest from the latest R41 torture I put it and went for the R89 paired with a new Feather blade.

The rest of the setup:
Frank Shaving badger brush
Linkidea ceramic bowl
Proraso Green pre-shave
Tabac soap
Capt. Fawcett alum bar
Tabac EDC

Did a full passes wanting to achieve the same smoothness as I sensed it with the R41 - WTG, XTG, ATG. Some fixes on the typical problematic areas.
It was soo much easier with R89. My strokes were much more confident even with the sharp Feather.

The end result is great 9.5/10. No sights of any damage to the skin.
If I have never used R41 before, I would confidently give 10/10, but as it looks like "There is smooth and there is R41 smooth". R41 brings the things to a different level which seems I'm not possible to reach with a mild razor, even with the sharpest blade.
Will do another R89 + Feather shave tomorrow and next will go for R41 with Feather on second use and then will compare the results.

Excuses for not taking a photo but the variety in my hardware is not big and I don't find sense posting the same things every time.
Smooth shaves gents :straight:
Guess I'm going to go against the grain here! I used the 2011 R41 for a short period of time but soon transferred over to the 2013. It was much better however, I still experienced some roughness, no matter how good of prep I did. So, I tried my R89 with a shim, since it was a mild but comfortable shaver anyway, and to my surprise, the shave was terrific, as close to the same BBS as my R41, but without any alum block sting, and same comfort as the non-shimmed R89. I used a Bevel blade which appear to me middle of the pack as far as sharpness goes. Needless to say, I demoted my R41, took the Faux Tortoise handle off and placed on the R89. I don't care for rough shaves, and to me, so what if the BBS doesn't last quite as long. Still no 5 o'clock shadow. I really wanted to love my R41s but I guess it wasn't to be! I will still use my two R41s occasionally, just for excitement and qualifying my shave technique again.
 
Guess I'm going to go against the grain here! I used the 2011 R41 for a short period of time but soon transferred over to the 2013. It was much better however, I still experienced some roughness, no matter how good of prep I did. So, I tried my R89 with a shim, since it was a mild but comfortable shaver anyway, and to my surprise, the shave was terrific, as close to the same BBS as my R41, but without any alum block sting, and same comfort as the non-shimmed R89. I used a Bevel blade which appear to me middle of the pack as far as sharpness goes. Needless to say, I demoted my R41, took the Faux Tortoise handle off and placed on the R89. I don't care for rough shaves, and to me, so what if the BBS doesn't last quite as long. Still no 5 o'clock shadow. I really wanted to love my R41s but I guess it wasn't to be! I will still use my two R41s occasionally, just for excitement and qualifying my shave technique again.
This is interesting. What is this shim like?
I plan to try R41 with a Yagi Beast cap. Some brothers here write it is a good combination. SLOC cap is also used but can't find such.
 
This is interesting. What is this shim like?
I plan to try R41 with a Yagi Beast cap. Some brothers here write it is a good combination. SLOC cap is also used but can't find such.

If you can order from AliExpress, the SLOC head is sold there. Search for "yaqi mellon razor head". There are several color options. The usual cost is $5 to $10 with shipping included.


A shim is just a thin spacer that fits normally between the blade and the base plate of the razor. This increases the blade gap and effective exposure. Shims can be made from old razor blades by cutting off the sharp edges with scissors. You can stack shims to get more thickness. Two stacked together would be good for boosting the R89 razor.
 
If you can order from AliExpress, the SLOC head is sold there. Search for "yaqi mellon razor head". There are several color options. The usual cost is $5 to $10 with shipping included.


A shim is just a thin spacer that fits normally between the blade and the base plate of the razor. This increases the blade gap and effective exposure. Shims can be made from old razor blades by cutting off the sharp edges with scissors. You can stack shims to get more thickness. Two stacked together would be good for boosting the R89 razor.
Thanks!
I already ordered the Yaqi Beast cap from Aliexpress. Saw the Melon but went for the Beast.
Will definitely try the shim hack with R89.
🍻
 
Top Bottom