Fatip & Joris Top Cap Measurements.....

[never-stop-learning]

Probably sidetracked the Fatip Slant thread quite enough and decided to branch off into the Top Cap measurements I took using my new micrometer.

The background posts from the Slant thread:

FaTip? What's a FaTip?

View attachment 1046371

I do love my FaTips.

Of course I'll get the FaTip Slant when it is released.

View attachment 1046392

Starting from the left with the razors outside the Timeless Blue:

Grande Mk1 "Defective" - Gunmetal color
Grande Mk1 - Gold
Piccolo SE Mk2 - Gunmetal and Gold
Grande Mk2 - Gold
Grande Mk2 - Nickel

In the Timeless Blue, starting from the left:

Plisson Joris Odyssey, Palladium and Yew Wood Handle (appears to be a Mk1)
Open Comb - Mk2 - Zembrano Wood Handle
Testina Gentile CC - Mk2 - Noce Wood Handle
Open Comb - Mk2 - Ulivo Wood Handle

Currently in route:

Plisson Joris Open Comb - Thujawood and Palladium
Schöne Nickel

As an Italian, it is my duty to help the Italian economy.

Arrived today:

Plisson Joris Open Comb - Thujawood and Palladium

View attachment 1046882

Really beautiful razor.

Appears to be a Mk2.

Here are the measurements, in descending order:

Piccolo SE Mk2 - Gunmetal and Gold

Testina Gentile CC - Mk2 - Noce Wood Handle

Grande Mk2 - Gold

Grande Mk2 - Nickel

Open Comb - Mk2 - Ulivo Wood Handle

Plisson Joris Open Comb - Thujawood and Palladium

Open Comb - Mk2 - Zembrano Wood Handle

Grande Mk1 "Defective" - Gunmetal color

Grande Mk1 - Gold

Plisson Joris Odyssey, Palladium and Yew Wood Handle (appears to be a Mk1)

In route - will measure and post the results when it arrives:

Schöne Nickel

Paging my Fellow FaTip Fanatics @Raven Koenes @Esox @Chan Eil Whiskers and any other folks who know FaTips: You are far more experienced in all things FaTip than I am. I could use your assistance getting this figured out.

To me, the Joris Odyssey and the Mk1 Gold will be the most challenging razors with top caps of 17.6mm.

The Gunmetal that was presented as being the "Defective" MK1 measures 18.5mm - approximately halfway between the smallest and largest measurements.

What are the parameters for the Mk2, Mk1 and "Defective" caps?

Or am I looking at this incorrectly?

As always, your assistance is very much appreciated.

 

[never-stop-learning]

Of interest is that the Mk2 models are, for the most part, close in measurement to each other.

The average and the median for the top 7 is 19.3mm. The range of values for the top 7 (which I am pretty darn sure are supposed to be Mk2) is +.4mm/- .6mm.

As someone who drove. 1971 Alfa Romeo Spider for a lot of years (with Dual Sidedraft Webber DCOE40 carbs, racing cams, 10:1 pistons, etc.), this slight deviation is precision.

 

[BigJ]

...
As someone who drove. 1971 Alfa Romeo Spider for a lot of years (with Dual Sidedraft Webber DCOE40 carbs, racing cams, 10:1 pistons, etc.), this slight deviation is precision.

Good man!! Anyone who kept an old Alfa on the road is ‘my hero!’

 

[never-stop-learning]

Good man!! Anyone who kept an old Alfa on the road is ‘my hero!’

Thank you, @BigJ

Definitely time to rebuild the motor. I plan on calming things down quite a bit. It used to be fun to have to keep the engine above 4,000RPM.

 

[Atlantic59]

What are the parameters for the Mk2, Mk1 and "Defective" caps?...

@Polarbeard did a nice write-up that included the "Defective Fatip" aka "razor on a stick".

The caps was badly made, rather than discard them, the vendor ground down the edges of the caps to make them flat, with the result that the blade on those stuck out more with very little curvature.

 

[never-stop-learning]

@Polarbeard did a nice write-up that included the "Defective Fatip" aka "razor on a stick".

The caps was badly made, rather than discard them, the vendor ground down the edges of the caps to make them flat, with the result that the blade on those stuck out more with very little curvature.

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

The following quote is from the @Polarbeard guide to extremely aggressive razors:

There was a Fatip I hadn´t shaved with; a version of the Fatip Grande that goes under the brand name Schermes Roedter 1909, so I ordered it and got it last week. It is a modified Fatip Grande with the bottom of the top cap shaved down about one millimeter thus resulting in a less bent (nearly flat) razor blade and increased blade exposure. The effect is that the razor blade sticks out from the top cap more or less unsupported. So what you get is a real life version of a razor blade on a stick, a razor blade with an extreme amount of blade flexing.

I believe I see the "flattening" of the "Defective" cap. This makes sense and helps me categorize the FaTip and Joris razors in the shaving den:

*Two Mk1
*One "Defective"
*Seven Mk2

Thank you.

 

[Esox]

Great info!

What are the parameters for the Mk2, Mk1 and "Defective" caps?

I'm not sure there are any...

1971 Alfa Romeo Spider for a lot of years (with Dual Sidedraft Webber DCOE40 carbs, racing cams, 10:1 pistons

Coming to understand that particular car as an individual will be like coming to understand all the Fatips you have as individuals and they might even be as fussy lol.

 

[never-stop-learning]

Great info!



I'm not sure there are any...




Coming to understand that particular car as an individual will be like coming to understand all the Fatips you have as individuals and they might even be as fussy lol.

This is probably why I gravitated toward and like FaTips as much as I do.

I like things with character.

 

[Raven Koenes]

Cal spent a lot of time trying to figure precise measurements to Fatips. Poor fellow lol. He's a bit touched like that...kind of like you. I have Mk1 and Mk2 Retros and I have three differing handle lengths and diameters. My nickel Grande has a slightly shorter handle than my chrome Grande Mk2's. It will drive one mad.

My take on the caps are the Mk1 is 18mm give or take. The early Mk2's are 19mm give or take, and the newest Mk2's are 19.5mm give or take. I do like that they seem to have increased the width of the Mk2's. It clamps the blade even more rigidly.

As you alluded to these slight deviations are precision.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I don't have digital calipers which would help if I were to do this project. My calipers are nice, but not for this level of accuracy (with my eyes).

From what I've read and what I've looked at when Cal and a bunch of us measured a bunch of Fatips the readings were less consistent than we might have expected. Generally what Rave mentioned seemed to be right, but there were ranges within the various models and iterations.

Main thing for me is how nicely all the Fatips shave, which is, I think, because they hold the blade in a rigid manner and have such a tiny gap and gap span.

I'm far from expert on the razors (or any razors). I just have a few of the Fatips, enough to know what I like best about the various models. Mk1 is my favorite, but I like 'em all.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Rac02]

Cal spent a lot of time trying to figure precise measurements to Fatips. Poor fellow lol. He's a bit touched like that...kind of like you. I have Mk1 and Mk2 Retros and I have three differing handle lengths and diameters. My nickel Grande has a slightly shorter handle than my chrome Grande Mk2's. It will drive one mad.

My take on the caps are the Mk1 is 18mm give or take. The early Mk2's are 19mm give or take, and the newest Mk2's are 19.5mm give or take. I do like that they seem to have increased the width of the Mk2's. It clamps the blade even more rigidly.

As you alluded to these slight deviations are precision.

With the mk2 cap do you sometimes need to straighten the blade? I just got my Piccolo and noticed the alignment needed adjustment, nothing real bad just a little play.

 

[Atlantic59]

...I just got my Piccolo and noticed the alignment needed adjustment, nothing real bad just a little play.

There is a trick for that. Put the cap upside-down on the palm of one hand. Drop the blade onto the pins. Put the base plate on to make a sandwich. Now, screw the handle down without touching the blade. The blade will normally align itself.

 

[Rac02]

There is a trick for that. Put the cap upside-down on the palm of one hand. Drop the blade onto the pins. Put the base plate on to make a sandwich. Now, screw the handle down without touching the blade. The blade will normally align itself.

I will try that again. It's not real bad but I can tell the blade is a tiny bit off, which I read somewhere is still happening. I don't mind it really, as long as I didn't get a lemon ( bad fatip) lol. I guess I really should just make sure the pins line up. I can see under the pins kinda like where they are welded to the top plate which makes me think there could be some play.

 

[Rac02]

I will try that again. It's not real bad but I can tell the blade is a tiny bit off, which I read somewhere is still happening. I don't mind it really, as long as I didn't get a lemon ( bad fatip) lol. I guess I really should just make sure the pins line up. I can see under the pins kinda like where they are welded to the top plate which makes me think there could be some play.

I guess I should ask, could you make mk2 misalign?

 

[never-stop-learning]

There is a trick for that. Put the cap upside-down on the palm of one hand. Drop the blade onto the pins. Put the base plate on to make a sandwich. Now, screw the handle down without touching the blade. The blade will normally align itself.

^^^^^ What @Atlantic59 said. ^^^^^

 

[Atlantic59]

I guess I should ask, could you make mk2 misalign?

As you noted, there is a little space under the posts where they are attached to the cap. The blade can get misaligned if it is twisted when the razor is almost fully tightened down.

However, if you don't touch the blade it won't get twisted sideways; it will keep the alignment from riding down the pins and get clamped down so it won't move. Voila, and you did not have to manually align anything.

 

[xiletero]

I took some measurements a while ago:
MK1: 17.8
Mk2: 19.5
Schone 19.3

weight was almost identical in these 3 tops

 

[Rac02]

As you noted, there is a little space under the posts where they are attached to the cap. The blade can get misaligned if it is twisted when the razor is almost fully tightened down.

However, if you don't touch the blade it won't get twisted sideways; it will keep the alignment from riding down the pins and get clamped down so it won't move. Voila, and you did not have to manually align anything.

Ok thanks, so I guess this mean that it is not a bad fatip but rather common, right? I don't mind spending 5sec to set the blade, nor do I mind tightening the cap like you said, as long as it's common on the mk2 version, I was getting scared that I had a bad one.

 

[Atlantic59]

Ok thanks, so I guess this mean that it is not a bad fatip but rather common, right? I don't mind spending 5sec to set the blade, nor do I mind tightening the cap like you said, as long as it's common on the mk2 version, I was getting scared that I had a bad one.

All of the mk2s have that space under the posts, so that's normal. If you had a bad FaTip, the blade would be crooked or have more exposure on one side than the other, and you could not adjust the blade enough to compensate.

Try the technique where you let the blade just align itself while you hold the cap in one palm while tightening the handle with your other hand, see what you get. The quality on the FaTips seems better with mk2s.

 

[Rac02]

All of the mk2s have that space under the posts, so that's normal. If you had a bad FaTip, the blade would be crooked or have more exposure on one side than the other, and you could not adjust the blade enough to compensate.


Try the technique where you let the blade just align itself while you hold the cap in one palm while tightening the handle with your other hand, see what you get. The quality on the FaTips seems better with mk2s.

Ok thanks, I'll keep trying that way. I feel that when it starts to tighten the cap that is in my palm stays there and the bottom plate rotates with the turning of the handle, one again it really is not that bad. I will try again though and report back. Thanks for the advice!!! At least it is good to know that all the mk2 have that space under the post.