@Jack Goossen i'll need to go way way offtopic to the topic at hand here to explain - mods, if its too far. simply delete.
but, in my book, i would consider for example people like family weiss from vienna experts on soaps (just one example used as placeholder for many to get my point across and bc it fits like a glove). why? bc they have done it since 1924 - nonstop, nothing else. thats knowledge. knowledge i highly doubt some of these so called 'artisans' where able to gather in their 5y of existance (while needing to reformulating their 'craft' 5 to 8 times in that period - while still asking premium in all those years while basically driving with training wheels).
it gets better.
true anectode about fa weiss - when one of them died (really old), the two sisters of him who died thought about what to do with the shop. they had customers for decades all across the planet - from simple soap to exclusive stuff for something basic like soap (pricewise). they thought about selling the shop (with recipes, proven processes, equipment, etc). finally they didnt - they just closed shop. they said there where some interests in buying but they didnt sell it bc they said all of them where dropouts from different paths of life knowing exactly zero about soapmaking (but somehow wanted to be soapmakers). real story. finally they closed shop basically not having it in them to let the knowledge go down this path.
thats what i think is precisely what is happening with most (not all) of todays 'artisans'. i aint mad at them for searching a lane to provide for their families - not at all i wish them all the best of luck - but the market structure as consequence is just nuts. imo.
in a nutshell its very managable knowledge to start, low enty barrier cashwise (gigantically low compared to other sectors), somewhat niche but 'trendy', tons of guerilla marketing like ytbers (well, and b&b) talking about nonsense nonstop - comparable to your fav screwdriver channel talking ever day about your fav screwdriver handles grip, grip texture and grip color and comparing them meticulously while never needing to use it professionally - all while asking premium but cutting costs at parameters that are needed to be justified asking for premium. for me. wooohoo salmon colored screwdriver grip.
sorry mods.
bye guys.
there is difference in soaps, hell yeah - no dismissing this on my end maybe i worded something poorly to cause misunderstanding - if so, my bad. but, the selling price is no indicator imo - not only not just a bad one, just none - thats part of the problem imo. warren buffet once famously (+precisely and rightfully imo) said 'price is what you pay, value is what you get'. price and value are completely different things. i dont know gentleman rayclem since i am not all that often here - maybe you are right about him, i dont say he isnt, i just dont know.As far as I'm concerned I experience significant difference in soaps, with the more expensive ones usually of higher quality. I'm sure you'll agree this obviously differs from person to person. That's why I'm quite surprised you seem to dismiss the possibility that more expensive soaps can actually be a better choice for some. You could ask @RayClem who is sort of an expert in shaving soaps.
but, in my book, i would consider for example people like family weiss from vienna experts on soaps (just one example used as placeholder for many to get my point across and bc it fits like a glove). why? bc they have done it since 1924 - nonstop, nothing else. thats knowledge. knowledge i highly doubt some of these so called 'artisans' where able to gather in their 5y of existance (while needing to reformulating their 'craft' 5 to 8 times in that period - while still asking premium in all those years while basically driving with training wheels).
it gets better.
true anectode about fa weiss - when one of them died (really old), the two sisters of him who died thought about what to do with the shop. they had customers for decades all across the planet - from simple soap to exclusive stuff for something basic like soap (pricewise). they thought about selling the shop (with recipes, proven processes, equipment, etc). finally they didnt - they just closed shop. they said there where some interests in buying but they didnt sell it bc they said all of them where dropouts from different paths of life knowing exactly zero about soapmaking (but somehow wanted to be soapmakers). real story. finally they closed shop basically not having it in them to let the knowledge go down this path.
thats what i think is precisely what is happening with most (not all) of todays 'artisans'. i aint mad at them for searching a lane to provide for their families - not at all i wish them all the best of luck - but the market structure as consequence is just nuts. imo.
in a nutshell its very managable knowledge to start, low enty barrier cashwise (gigantically low compared to other sectors), somewhat niche but 'trendy', tons of guerilla marketing like ytbers (well, and b&b) talking about nonsense nonstop - comparable to your fav screwdriver channel talking ever day about your fav screwdriver handles grip, grip texture and grip color and comparing them meticulously while never needing to use it professionally - all while asking premium but cutting costs at parameters that are needed to be justified asking for premium. for me. wooohoo salmon colored screwdriver grip.
probably yes, basically, but not exclusively. it doesnt need to be a subtle scent for example. i just cant roll with something that smells like a lollipop from a 4y old and is called 'strawberry cookie captain crunch cedar dream team' or 'hurr durrr'. i dont have it in me. same as i dont have it in me looking at aliexpress container in my bathroom. most of them check all these boxes at the same time hahaha - its either premium or aliexpress - you can hardly have it both. they want both. that is offensive for me. sidenote, i dont fk with vintage saab or old vovlo one bit.Am I correct in assuming it is this specific aspect of this topic that you find offensive?
yes, the idea, but not the thing. thats hallucination. if poured in a container from aliexpress, while trying to be 'luxurious', with a better version of a 90s home cd printer lable, still trying to be 'luxurious', with chosen design that doesnt even remotely is luxurious but fkn tasteless poor (to disgustingly poor) graphic design (hehe all imo ofc). whats left? demanding luxurious prices while trying to be luxurious while not being it. aint gonna happen with me - personally, nothing more.others spending more money on a product than strictly functional or necessary. The idea of luxus give them satisfaction.
i am with you here, i have no problem spending money on soaps - from the broadly known i have mdc, t&hill creams, acqua di parma but i also have at least ±1kg of old tabac, proraso r+g+b, haslingers since they are quasi around the corner here, uncountable old speick sticks,..). maybe we just value the parameter 'value' from a very different angle. i dont see value in most modern artisan soaps since the offered package is not what i am looking for spending premium on soap. they offer in fact the opposite - as package.Again: for ME, the best soaps I use, are usually more expensive, give or take two or three soaps.
all good, we have irrelevant soap small talk. no worries. i am not offended not even slightly. even if you would dismiss my opinion, it wouldnt change a thing for me. no hard feelings at all.No intention here to dismiss your opinion
sorry mods.
bye guys.