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Exfoliate that mug!

No, not your soap mug... that would be kinda silly; it has no skin!

Your other mug. Just grab your shaving brush, and face lather. That'll exfol....

Whoa there, partner. Hold the phone. I read in multiple places on B & B daily that face lathering with a brush exfoliates.

So to clear up this wide held myth, I'm gonna give you a peek inside one of my doctor appointments, circa 2008.

I have Seborrheic dermatitis. I'm at the dermatologist for a yearly visit to get my yearly medication refills to treat it. It also happens to be shortly (like, a month) after I started traditional wet shaving again.

Doc: "Wow, you have some really nasty razor burn going on."

Me: Goes into long speech about wet shaving. I even explain how careful I am to exfoliate daily with my shaving brush.

Doc, while falling off the chair, laughing: "OK, let's get a few things straight," he says while sniffing from his laughter. "You see that razor burn on your neck, right here? Well, razor burn is exfoliation taken too far. You see, there are two things that a razor blade will do: 1. cut hair 2. Exfoliate your skin. In fact, in just one pass your razor blade will exfoliate your skin as much as needs be, and will do more exfoliation in that one pass than you'd get from a hundred years of rubbing a soft wet badger on your face. You'd need to add some sort of abrasive, like pumice powder, to ever get your shaving brush to do any meaningful exfoliation. Sure, if you have dry skin, you might see some of that removed by your brush, but that in no means is true exfoliation. You are doing that part with the blade itself. And if you're using a DE or a straight razor to shave with, you are doing more exfoliation than you really need, not that that's necessarily a *bad* thing. The only time it becomes a bad thing is when you exfoliate to the point of redness and irritation, also known as "razor burn"."

So gents, just to clear things up...

Your shaving brush: Great at applying shaving cream or soap. Not at all useful for exfoliation.

Your shaving blade of choice: Great for removing hair and also does all the exfoliation your skin needs in the very first pass of your shave.

"Razor Burn": caused by over exfoliation of the skin, usually by running a razor over the skin too many times, but can also be caused by other factors such as: too aggressive of a razor, too sharp of a blade, too dull of a blade, too much pressure, a combination of two or more of the previous things, and the position of the Sun and Venus.

So use that brush on your mug to spread that soap and cream to heart's delight. But please keep in mind that you aren't doing any actual exfoliation in the process; your normal shave takes care of that part for you.
 
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Agreed. But let's remember that doctors themselves don't always agree. :001_huh:

No doubt about that, but this is an actual physical process taking place. That sharp razor blade *is* removing skin cells at a rate great enough to be deemed "exfoliation." Razor burn is proof. Not really a lot of wiggle room for agreeing or disagreeing, as this is actually happening.

Dermatologists offer a type of exfoliating called "dermaplaning." Its basically running a razor blade over your skin.
 
No, not your soap mug... that would be kinda silly; it has no skin!

Your other mug. Just grab your shaving brush, and face lather. That'll exfol....

Whoa there, partner. Hold the phone. I read in multiple places on B & B daily that face lathering with a brush exfoliates.

So to clear up this wide held myth, I'm gonna give you a peek inside one of my doctor appointments, circa 2008.

I have Seborrheic dermatitis. I'm at the dermatologist for a yearly visit to get my yearly medication refills to treat it. It also happens to be shortly (like, a month) after I started traditional wet shaving again.

Doc: "Wow, you have some really nasty razor burn going on."

Me: Goes into long speech about wet shaving. I even explain how careful I am to exfoliate daily with my shaving brush.

Doc, while falling off the chair, laughing: "OK, let's get a few things straight," he says while sniffing from his laughter. "You see that razor burn on your neck, right here? Well, razor burn is exfoliation taken too far. You see, there are two things that a razor blade will do: 1. cut hair 2. Exfoliate your skin. In fact, in just one pass your razor blade will exfoliate your skin as much as needs be, and will do more exfoliation in that one pass than you'd get from a hundred years of rubbing a soft wet badger on your face. You'd need to add some sort of abrasive, like pumice powder, to ever get your shaving brush to do any meaningful exfoliation. Sure, if you have dry skin, you might see some of that removed by your brush, but that in no means is true exfoliation. You are doing that part with the blade itself. And if you're using a DE or a straight razor to shave with, you are doing more exfoliation than you really need, not that that's necessarily a *bad* thing. The only time it becomes a bad thing is when you exfoliate to the point of redness and irritation, also known as "razor burn"."

So gents, just to clear things up...

Your shaving brush: Great at applying shaving cream or soap. Not at all useful for exfoliation.

Your shaving blade of choice: Great for removing hair and also does all the exfoliation your skin needs in the very first pass of your shave.

"Razor Burn": caused by over exfoliation of the skin, usually by running a razor over the skin too many times, but can also be caused by other factors such as: too aggressive of a razor, too sharp of a blade, too dull of a blade, too much pressure, a combination of two or more of the previous things, and the position of the Sun and Venus.

So use that brush on your mug to spread that soap and cream to heart's delight. But please keep in mind that you aren't doing any actual exfoliation in the process; your normal shave takes care of that part for you.
Excellent post for some of us who have only recently taken up wet shaving. It makes perfect sense, but good to hear from a doctors perspective. I will now use my brush for intended purpose... applying soap lather. Thank you.
 
No, not your soap mug... that would be kinda silly; it has no skin!

Your other mug. Just grab your shaving brush, and face lather. That'll exfol....

Whoa there, partner. Hold the phone. I read in multiple places on B & B daily that face lathering with a brush exfoliates.

So to clear up this wide held myth, I'm gonna give you a peek inside one of my doctor appointments, circa 2008.

I have Seborrheic dermatitis. I'm at the dermatologist for a yearly visit to get my yearly medication refills to treat it. It also happens to be shortly (like, a month) after I started traditional wet shaving again.

Doc: "Wow, you have some really nasty razor burn going on."

Me: Goes into long speech about wet shaving. I even explain how careful I am to exfoliate daily with my shaving brush.

Doc, while falling off the chair, laughing: "OK, let's get a few things straight," he says while sniffing from his laughter. "You see that razor burn on your neck, right here? Well, razor burn is exfoliation taken too far. You see, there are two things that a razor blade will do: 1. cut hair 2. Exfoliate your skin. In fact, in just one pass your razor blade will exfoliate your skin as much as needs be, and will do more exfoliation in that one pass than you'd get from a hundred years of rubbing a soft wet badger on your face. You'd need to add some sort of abrasive, like pumice powder, to ever get your shaving brush to do any meaningful exfoliation. Sure, if you have dry skin, you might see some of that removed by your brush, but that in no means is true exfoliation. You are doing that part with the blade itself. And if you're using a DE or a straight razor to shave with, you are doing more exfoliation than you really need, not that that's necessarily a *bad* thing. The only time it becomes a bad thing is when you exfoliate to the point of redness and irritation, also known as "razor burn"."

So gents, just to clear things up...

Your shaving brush: Great at applying shaving cream or soap. Not at all useful for exfoliation.

Your shaving blade of choice: Great for removing hair and also does all the exfoliation your skin needs in the very first pass of your shave.

"Razor Burn": caused by over exfoliation of the skin, usually by running a razor over the skin too many times, but can also be caused by other factors such as: too aggressive of a razor, too sharp of a blade, too dull of a blade, too much pressure, a combination of two or more of the previous things, and the position of the Sun and Venus.

So use that brush on your mug to spread that soap and cream to heart's delight. But please keep in mind that you aren't doing any actual exfoliation in the process; your normal shave takes care of that part for you.

Apparently your doctor doesn't know enough about shave to consider boar, or horse hair brushes! Nor the fact that you can brush burn from synthetic brushes.
 
Apparently your doctor doesn't know enough about shave to consider boar, or horse hair brushes! Nor the fact that you can brush burn from synthetic brushes.
Back then, badger hair brushes were the norm. And I don't believe that even the scritchiest brushes from back then would be capable of removing skin, let alone cause "brush burn."

I have two synthetics, and neither one would be capable of producing brush burn. I don't doubt that there are some very harsh brushes out there now that boar and synthetic have become popular, but for the most part, I don't think that brushes harsh enough to actually abrade the skin (exfoliate) are in wide spread use. Most of us use very gentle, soft brushes. Even the badger hair brushes that would be considered very scritchy still wouldn't be harsh enough to exfoliate.

If you are using a brush harsh enough to actually cause "brush burn", then I think it would be very important to consider that when shaving; you have already removed skin, and you are about to remove more skin when you run that razor over your face. That'll increase your chances of getting razor burn even more.

The whole goal should be to not remove so much skin that you suffer from any sort of "burn", as that simply means you have removed too much skin (excessive exfoliation).

I would absolutely *hate* to use a brush harsh enough to cause actual exfoliation to occur, but to each his own. :) And if you *are* using a brush harsh enough to exfoliate, then you need to also consider that you will be exfoliating with your razor even more. There is simply no way to shave without the blade causing exfoliation. And it's enough exfoliation that you really don't need a brush adding more exfoliation to the equation.

Mind if I ask what brush you have that is capable of causing "brush burn"? I'd like to buy one and try it out.
 
I'd be interested to hear your Docs opinion on whether it is shaving that keeps male skin from ageing as fast as female skin.
A great deal of straight razor honing is sharpness vs smoothness. (Sharpness is easy to achieve, specially with today's stones, but smoothness takes time to develop.). Broadly, this is hair removal versus exfoliation.
SRs, I suspect, exfoliate less than DE blades.

Jarrod writes quite well on this.
 
I'd be interested to hear your Docs opinion on whether it is shaving that keeps male skin from ageing as fast as female skin.
A great deal of straight razor honing is sharpness vs smoothness. (Sharpness is easy to achieve, specially with today's stones, but smoothness takes time to develop.). Broadly, this is hair removal versus exfoliation.
SRs, I suspect, exfoliate less than DE blades.

Jarrod writes quite well on this.

I've shaved with a straight every day that I'm home from work (I'm an airline pilot, so no straight shaving at work) for nearly 11 years now, and only a month ago decided to throw DE shaving back into the mix.

Different perspectives are interesting.... most DE shavers look at straight shaving as a real skill to be learned (and it is). Whereas I'm a straight shaver, thinking that this DE shaving is a real skill to be learned (and it is).

And yes, I am far more susceptible to razor burn from DE shaving than I am with my straights. It was a bit of a surprise to me when I shaved with a DE for the first time in nearly ten years; I ended up getting seriously burned. I had to switch back to straights for a few days. The alum block told me I had much to learn that day.

My next dermatologist appointment won't be until October. I'll have to chat with him again about the whole subject.

But regardless of how smooth and burn free your skin is after shaving, you *have* exfoliated your skin to some degree. And if you don't exfoliate to the point of burn, you're good. IMO, that really nice sensation your face has after shaving is caused by the exfoliation. Something I'll have to add to the conversation with the doc.

After over ten years of straight shaving and honing, I've finally learned my straight collection... I'm able to hit that sweet spot (sharpness and smoothness) on each of my blades. But that's a subject for a different thread (although I try to stay away from the straight razor forums here for various reasons).
 
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I am not into the exfoliation thing. I have rosacea, which means the layer of skin over topmy blood capillaries is quite thin. My face is very easily irritated by heat, cold, wind, sun and shaving, including exposure to certain scents in shaving soaps.. When I purchase a new brush (even a premium silvertip badger), the first thing I do is examine the brush for any hairs that are darker and stiffer than the rest. I trim them shorter than the canopy of the brush so they do not irritate my face. I bowl lather, and try to minimize the contact time of my brush on my face. Face lathering irritates my skin.

To make matters worse, I have a fast-growing, coarse, white beard that requires a very sharp blade to slice through the stubble. If my shaving technique (with either a straight razor or DE) is not close to perfect, I will get irritation from the shave. Proper shave angle and minimal pressure is an absolute necessity.
 
Back then, badger hair brushes were the norm. And I don't believe that even the scritchiest brushes from back then would be capable of removing skin, let alone cause "brush burn."

I have two synthetics, and neither one would be capable of producing brush burn. I don't doubt that there are some very harsh brushes out there now that boar and synthetic have become popular, but for the most part, I don't think that brushes harsh enough to actually abrade the skin (exfoliate) are in wide spread use. Most of us use very gentle, soft brushes. Even the badger hair brushes that would be considered very scritchy still wouldn't be harsh enough to exfoliate.

If you are using a brush harsh enough to actually cause "brush burn", then I think it would be very important to consider that when shaving; you have already removed skin, and you are about to remove more skin when you run that razor over your face. That'll increase your chances of getting razor burn even more.

The whole goal should be to not remove so much skin that you suffer from any sort of "burn", as that simply means you have removed too much skin (excessive exfoliation).

I would absolutely *hate* to use a brush harsh enough to cause actual exfoliation to occur, but to each his own. :) And if you *are* using a brush harsh enough to exfoliate, then you need to also consider that you will be exfoliating with your razor even more. There is simply no way to shave without the blade causing exfoliation. And it's enough exfoliation that you really don't need a brush adding more exfoliation to the equation.

Mind if I ask what brush you have that is capable of causing "brush burn"? I'd like to buy one and try it out.
Test about 8-9 synthetics in one night face lathering them. Load from a mug, producing little if any foam/lather. Then face lather. You will have brush burn! plastics repel water, so without the lather they pull against the skin. Normally not an issue, because it only occurs briefly during your first pass of a shave. The brush capable? I didn't list them, some might consider it a strike against a brush that was actually being used in a very unfair, it turns out, situation. [URL="https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/synthetic-shaving-brush-pass-around.497332/page-43#post-9772389"]Synthetic Shaving Brush Pass Around[/URL]
That is where I talk about the situation.

When were badger brushes the norm and where did you find that information? I believe boars have been the norm for the masses, and synthetics are overtaking that spot. If you mean preferred by shaving enthusiasts, . . .

The scary part is I don't get razor burn, unless doing 4 passes, while I was learning DEs. But Brushes burn me!
 
Load from a mug, producing little if any foam/lather. Then face lather. You will have brush burn!
I can well imagine that not having much (if any) lubrication on a brush would be a very uncomfortable experience, pulling on hair like crazy. As to whether or not you are actually removing skin cells.. well, that's something that would require an actual trial. That sort of discomfort (whiskers being pulled on by an unlubricated brush) does not necessarily mean that exfoliation has occurred. I could very well be wrong, but that's just my opinion.

When were badger brushes the norm and where did you find that information? I believe boars have been the norm for the masses, and synthetics are overtaking that spot. If you mean preferred by shaving enthusiasts, . . .
Notice the name of the forum we're on? ;)

I didn't mean to strike a nerve with anyone and make them angry (your tone implies you're a bit upset). I'm simply posting information that was given to me by a dermatologist. And, IMO, what you are experiencing with "brush burn" is not the same as actual exfoliation. But again, I could be wrong on this. If I've offended you with what I've posted, please know that that was not my intention.
 
I can well imagine that not having much (if any) lubrication on a brush would be a very uncomfortable experience, pulling on hair like crazy. As to whether or not you are actually removing skin cells.. well, that's something that would require an actual trial. That sort of discomfort (whiskers being pulled on by an unlubricated brush) does not necessarily mean that exfoliation has occurred. I could very well be wrong, but that's just my opinion.


Notice the name of the forum we're on? ;)

I didn't mean to strike a nerve with anyone and make them angry (your tone implies you're a bit upset). I'm simply posting information that was given to me by a dermatologist. And, IMO, what you are experiencing with "brush burn" is not the same as actual exfoliation. But again, I could be wrong on this. If I've offended you with what I've posted, please know that that was not my intention.
I have scars on inside on outside of both ankles from leg braces that a doctor repeatedly told my mom not to worry about when I was two's old without bothering to see me. I don't hold doctors as a supreme holder of all knowledge, infallible!

Not angry, just rebutting an opinion stated as a fact. Most shave sites have the word straight in their title, based on my limited searches. So badgers and straights are the most popular shaving items ;)

Tests would have to be ran. But what makes you think keratin can't be as exfoliating as wet sugar?
 
It is obvious that the OP writes about his experience at the dermatologist and the advice given for someone with Seborrheic dermatitis condition. I would stop there rather than trying to make universal and absolute statements, especially in the absence of a credible source/study.
From my personal experience and research, using a shaving brush helps the exfoliation process and also reduces the number of trapped hairs. Not as much as shaving (exfoliation) or using a facial scrub (exfoliation and trapped hair release).
Do your own research.
 
OK, so I'm just gonna leave this thread with the following thoughts...

Let's say that you can remove X layers of skin cells without suffering razor burn. Your whole goal for your shave would be to remove < X amount of skin cells, regardless of how they are removed.

Keep in mind that the major exfoliating component of your shave is the razor blade itself. You WILL exfoliate your face wherever the blade crosses over. Much more so than your brush will. However, if you believe that your brush IS exfoliating your skin, add that to the equation. So if "R" is the amount of skin removed from your razor, and "B" is the amount of skin removed from your brush (if you do believe your brush is removing skin), then you want R + B <X.

As this discussion seems to be heating up, I'll just leave it as is. Take it or leave it. :)
 
In my opinion, the shaving brush is essential for my shaving routine. It helps clearing skin from residue, helps with exfoliation and greatly reduces the number of trapped hair. It also performs the uniform delivery of lather, paramount for proper lubrication. These are all important factors in assuring a smooth shaving with a minimal impact on my skin.
All of the above prepare my skin for what is coming: the razor loaded with a sharp blade. Lousy prep = lousy shave, because by the time the blade touches my skin, it is already too late. Yes, the blade performs all exfoliation needed, and some more... But if skin is poorly prepared, it will also do more damage.
Don't you tell me this is all in preparation and connected to the Barbasol takeover conspiracy.
Keep your fingers clean. Use a brush.
:biggrin1:
 
I've shaved with a straight every day that I'm home from work (I'm an airline pilot, so no straight shaving at work) for nearly 11 years now, and only a month ago decided to throw DE shaving back into the mix.

Different perspectives are interesting.... most DE shavers look at straight shaving as a real skill to be learned (and it is). Whereas I'm a straight shaver, thinking that this DE shaving is a real skill to be learned (and it is).

And yes, I am far more susceptible to razor burn from DE shaving than I am with my straights. It was a bit of a surprise to me when I shaved with a DE for the first time in nearly ten years; I ended up getting seriously burned. I had to switch back to straights for a few days. The alum block told me I had much to learn that day.

My next dermatologist appointment won't be until October. I'll have to chat with him again about the whole subject.

But regardless of how smooth and burn free your skin is after shaving, you *have* exfoliated your skin to some degree. And if you don't exfoliate to the point of burn, you're good. IMO, that really nice sensation your face has after shaving is caused by the exfoliation. Something I'll have to add to the conversation with the doc.

After over ten years of straight shaving and honing, I've finally learned my straight collection... I'm able to hit that sweet spot (sharpness and smoothness) on each of my blades. But that's a subject for a different thread (although I try to stay away from the straight razor forums here for various reasons).

I'm sold on the idea that brushes don't exfoliate, and I never really understood that idea. To me, the brush it there to coat and lift the hairs, working with the soap to break down the oil coating the hair. (Using a brush dry or with little lather can be uncomfortable, but that is neither here nor there.)

The kind of SR edge you like ('a person likes') may have something to do with how sharp you like it in balance with how much exfoliation you like.
 
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Interesting discussion!!

Bottom line for me is that my face likes to be ‘lathered’ with a brush!! :a29:
 
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