Electric Cars - help me understand

[luvmysuper]

What you are saying - to put it in finance terms - is the $7500 a year fuel cost (using the numbers above) is a hedge/insurance policy that is worth it to you - in contrast to people who just want to have an extra $7500 a year to buy more razors or whatever . The other approach that would be the best of both worlds is to put the first years $7500 in savings into a whole house generator - an insurance/hedge designed precisely for that contingency and now you get to save $7500 a year (for all future years) and you have peace of mind with regards to your storm / emergency issues.

For most of the US the plugin hybrids are the best of both worlds - working on electricity for daily grocery / commuting trips and a conventional gas car for long hauls all built into the exact same car.

I think at present, it would be foolish for car manufacturers to NOT start producing hybrids with some style and storage.
It's a "ready to roll" technology that bridges the gaps on both sides of the discussion.

 

[GaryTha]

I think at present, it would be foolish for car manufacturers to NOT start producing hybrids with some style and storage.
It's a "ready to roll" technology that bridges the gaps on both sides of the discussion.

Toyota Hybrid Vehicles Lineup

 

[luvmysuper]

Toyota Hybrid Vehicles Lineup

Yes indeed. I'd be happy to see all of the major players making the same effort as Toyota.

 

[preidy]

What you are saying - to put it in finance terms - is the $7500 a year fuel cost (using the numbers above) is a hedge/insurance policy that is worth it to you - in contrast to people who just want to have an extra $7500 a year to buy more razors or whatever . The other approach that would be the best of both worlds is to put the first years $7500 in savings into a whole house generator - an insurance/hedge designed precisely for that contingency and now you get to save $7500 a year (for all future years) and you have peace of mind with regards to your storm / emergency issues.

For most of the US the plugin hybrids are the best of both worlds - working on electricity for daily grocery / commuting trips and a conventional gas car for long hauls all built into the exact same car.

I'm not getting into the weeds on the numbers. I agree in certain cases hybrids have there place but not for the majority; especially those with families that need a larger vehicle (see my comment above about my son). Also not worth a crap for a farmer or construction guy. The storm senerio is only one potential pitfall of owning an EV. There are other factors such as where you live (snow country or hot summers) as running the heator or AC degrades the battery quicker. Also the unavailably of quick charging and stations. For those folks that can utilize an EV or Hybrid - great. But it ain't for the majority (yet). I will not be around long enough to see full electric (unless govt forces issue). Heck Im still waiting for flying cars that my science teacher promised back in the late 60's.

 

[Avi]

I'm not getting into the weeds on the numbers. I agree in certain cases hybrids have there place but not for the majority; especially those with families that need a larger vehicle (see my comment above about my son). Also not worth a crap for a farmer or construction guy. The storm senerio is only one potential pitfall of owning an EV. There are other factors such as where you live (snow country or hot summers) as running the heator or AC degrades the battery quicker. Also the unavailably of quick charging and stations. For those folks that can utilize an EV or Hybrid - great. But it ain't for the majority (yet). I will not be around long enough to see full electric (unless govt forces issue). Heck Im still waiting for flying cars that my science teacher promised back in the late 60's.

I thought so too ( I have two small kids ), we had out grown our two row car for hauling munchkins and dogs around. By sheer coincidence the 3 row plug in hybrids all came on the market over the last year. My wife effectively goes 1100 miles on a tank of gas for our use and we don’t have range anxiety because it is a conventional car at the same time. From the Volvo XC90 to the Toyota high lander there are 3 row cars at all price points which turn really low mpg vehicles into compact car mpgE that have the storage capacity of American SUVs and minivans available today with every other manufacturer releasing their versions either this year or next year.

 

[luvmysuper]

every other manufacturer releasing their versions either this year or next year.

Waiting for this!

 

[JWCowboy]

My dad grew up with horses in the streets - no cars. I can only imagine how some thought about how this new fangled car was going to replace a horse. He saw house electric current, cars, radio, tv, computers, jet planes, space flight and atomic bombs developed plus a ton of medical advances including eradication of polio and smallpox.

Someone, somewhere hopefully within a few years will solve the problem with energy efficiency. It may not be an elegant or recognizable solution. I hope those with the physics/math knowledge are moving in this direction.

What's truly remarkable is Orville & Wilbur made their flight in 1903, who then would envision in a little over 65 years we'd be sending a man to the moon?

 

[jackgoldman123]

What's truly remarkable is Orville & Wilbur made their flight in 1903, who then would envision in a little over 65 years we'd be sending a man to the moon?

Thank goodness someone was looking at new technologies.

 

[JWCowboy]

Yes indeed. I'd be happy to see all of the major players making the same effort as Toyota.

I believe we will see that very soon....

 

[JWCowboy]

This has been an interesting thread/discussion and I've enjoyed reading. One thing I believe we all can agree on is that whatever the future of energy holds, economic incentives are going to be key motivators of change.

 

[luvmysuper]

This has been an interesting thread/discussion and I've enjoyed reading. One thing I believe we all can agree on is that whatever the future of energy holds, economic incentives are going to be key motivators of change.

+1
Incentives always work better than penalties!

 

[ZJ68]

Also not worth a crap for a farmer or construction guy. The storm senerio is only one potential pitfall of owning an EV.

Have you seen Ford's F150 Lightning? That looks pretty compelling. No, you can't charge it when your power is out, but you can plug your house into it, which sounds a bit more useful. I could go for an Explorer version of that.

https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/?gnav=header-electrified-vhp

 

[SharpieB]

Have you seen Ford's F150 Lightning? That looks pretty compelling. No, you can't charge it when your power is out, but you can plug your house into it, which sounds a bit more useful. I could go for an Explorer version of that.

https://www.ford.com/trucks/f150/f150-lightning/2022/?gnav=header-electrified-vhp

Good to see vehicles like this that are “reasonably” priced. The Ford Maverick truck looks nice as well and is a lot cheaper (and smaller) at $22k+.

I bought a new car last week and looked at a bunch of electrics/hybrids and ultimately decided to stick with gas for now as my cottage is 250km away and it is in the boonies. Just not 100% ready for electric yet, I guess.

 

[jackgoldman123]

+1
Incentives always work better than penalties!

Someone said a successful project lacks a long timeline

 

[emwolf]

I’ve often wondered, what is normal about Normal, IL?

I had wondered that when we moved here. The truth is, a normal school is a teacher's college. Illinois State University in Normal used to be called Illinois State Teacher's College, hence the town was called Normal because of the school.

 

[Alacrity59]

Not sure why the op asked the question originally but it's important to ask why... Why are we being pushed toward electric vehicles?

I was hoping someone with some electrical background could check my numbers.


In Canada we have a stated goal of having 90% of our power come from renewables by 2030. I've not seen numbers put to this at all. It is not as if we can wave a magic wand and it will happen.

I was crunching a few more numbers today. There is a large solar farm in Sarnia. Based on the output I can roughly calculate that to support just the number of cars in Ontario with solar panels we need to install 632 million panels on about 750 square miles. To put that into perspective this is something like a two mile wide strip of land stretching between Toronto and Montreal. Wind power would take roughly four times that amount. Imagine the fun of expropriating land where needed.

Is it time to start buying the land? In the whole world in 2019 140,000 megawatts of solar panels were produced . . . Ontario alone would need more than a quarter of one year's production just to power cars . . . need to gear up production? Production would mean more mining as well.

We can't do this unless we start doing it now.

 

[JCarr]

I have a 2016 Ford Focus...it gets 36mpg to 38mpg highway, 32mpg to 34mpg city. I bought it used...Ford certified...for $12k. It had 23k miles on it...a veritable cream puff. Tell me an electric car that can touch that from an affordability standpoint?

If they want me to buy an electric car, start making them for $18000 brand new and I'll buy one tomorrow. And I'm not even talking about Tesla...those things are a pipe dream for most folks. A Toyota Prius is overpriced for the average consumer.

 

[rbscebu]

@Alacrity59, when considering the output of an electrical generating source, you need to multiply the output by about 0.6 to get to the amount of that power that actually reaches the consumer.

About 40% of power generated is lost in transmission. This loss mainly occurs due to the electrical resistance in the transmission lines and transformer voltage step-up/step-down from generating source to consumer. Basically the further the generating source is from the consumer, the greater the loss.

 

[luvmysuper]

All AC generation has line loss and parasitic load. Fossil fuel has a very high parasitic load ratio, solar has losses due to sunless periods and wind has periods when wind is too slow or too fast. Rough calculations are always going to be rough, but designing load fulfillment takes those losses into account.

 

[GaryTha]

Serious projection. The way things are going, shoes are going to be a bigger form of transportation a few years from now than cars.