What's new

Electric Cars - help me understand

Status
Not open for further replies.
Electric is not perfect, but it's considerably cleanER than gas.
Like when they have to burn 300 gallons of gasoline per hour to de-ice the windmill blades? Electric is a joke. Texas suffered an ugly outage due to being overly reliant on alternative energy sources. Electricity comes from coal. Coal comes out of the ground. Oil is already made from a renewable source (yes, look it up.) I know one thing is for certain: people will never be as mobile with electric cars as they are with gasoline cars. Our movements will be limited and the vehicles we drive will be tracked and controlled and THAT is worth questioning.
download.jpeg
 
Today, I spoke to a woman who has a Tesla. She said she'd never go back to gasoline. She drove here from NY and had no problem finding charging stations. It takes about 90 minutes to get a full charge.

I have a Chevy Bolt. The realistic range on a full charge is about 150 miles, which leaves enough extra for any reasonable emergency. I seldom leave town, and when I do, I can take my other car.

I don't care where the electricity comes from. Economics tells me if the cost to "fuel" the car is about a quarter of gasoline, that's my effect on the system. Otherwise, the price would be higher. When other people have a lower electric bill at home than I do, they can complain.

Eventually, they will use nano-spring generators, or the equivalent of tiny rubber bands, to generate electricity.
 
No more coal, no more natl gas, no more nuke plants. Only wind, hydro and fairy dust. Does it work? Ask the one in five Calif residents that have traded in their elec car. OBTW looks like rolling black out's out there again this year. EV's only work for a select few. Certainly not in rural area's. Sorry I don't get it. Beam me up Scotty.
 
And that, in a nut shell, is the problem with the current state of EV's and generation.

You can start virtue signaling when your carbon footprint is smaller than mine. My son and I average fewer than 400 KW/hr of electricity a month including the electric car. How about you?
 

luvmysuper

My elbows leak
Staff member
You can start virtue signaling when your carbon footprint is smaller than mine. My son and I average fewer than 400 KW/hr of electricity a month including the electric car. How about you?

No dissing intended, my sincere apologies if it was taken that way.
My comment was solely based on the issue that we need to create generation that supports EV's in a manner that continues the concept of reducing emissions. Currently the US gets 72% of its electricity by burning fuel.
Most people don't know, or don't care how the electricity is generated as long as whatever they plug in works and that is problematic in and of itself.
"Carbon Footprint" is another one of those catch phrases that doesn't mean a thing. As long as the wealthy can buy carbon credits or countries are exempted due to economic status, it's just a feel good thing.
 
You can start virtue signaling when your carbon footprint is smaller than mine. My son and I average fewer than 400 KW/hr of electricity a month including the electric car. How about you?

it’s not just that - in a very Milton Friedman way it simply saves money.

The problem with these discussions it has gone tribal, so much so there are a slew of people who would rather spend more money on energy, now subsidizing coal and gas because that is what they are used to and on the flip side rather than arguing economics, folks argue carbon footprint which itself sounds more like a virtue argument rather than a fiscal conservative one, the former simply arouses suspicion and the latter people just don’t get even if you spell it out as you just did.
 
No more coal, no more natl gas, no more nuke plants. Only wind, hydro and fairy dust. Does it work? Ask the one in five Calif residents that have traded in their elec car. OBTW looks like rolling black out's out there again this year. EV's only work for a select few. Certainly not in rural area's. Sorry I don't get it. Beam me up Scotty.

You are right. EVs aren't for everyone. Four out of five Calif residents have kept their EVs if your statistic is correct. Truthfully, I don't look to California for the standard on anything. Their power problems have many causes besides EVs.

Emotional appeals are pretty useless in getting to the facts. The fact is, our utility uses 30% solar and wind. Both are increasing quickly. We don't have any rolling blackouts. As they increase the percentage of renewable sources, the capacity is quickly increasing.

We have about 20 free quick charging stations around town run by solar power. Eventually, all city parking will have free solar charging. My son can recharge for free at work from solar power. He works in a no-kill animal shelter.

The average payback period for installing solar power in a home around here is under seven years now. This varies widely based on usage and rates. Add an EV to the mix, and the payback period is shorter.

I don't care for government-mandated or subsidized programs, but then I don't know everything. In fact, the older I get, the less I care to know.

Let's address the rural areas. If you frequently exceed the range of an EV, it's not for you. However, I've lived in a rural area and only drove about 50 miles a day. At 5 miles per KWH, I'd use about $1.60 in electricity per day at $0.16/KWH. Your equivalent mpg is 5/.16 x gas price. Say it's $4.00/gal. Equivalent MPG=125 mpg.
 
You are right. EVs aren't for everyone. Four out of five Calif residents have kept their EVs if your statistic is correct. Truthfully, I don't look to California for the standard on anything. Their power problems have many causes besides EVs.

Emotional appeals are pretty useless in getting to the facts. The fact is, our utility uses 30% solar and wind. Both are increasing quickly. We don't have any rolling blackouts. As they increase the percentage of renewable sources, the capacity is quickly increasing.

We have about 20 free quick charging stations around town run by solar power. Eventually, all city parking will have free solar charging. My son can recharge for free at work from solar power. He works in a no-kill animal shelter.

The average payback period for installing solar power in a home around here is under seven years now. This varies widely based on usage and rates. Add an EV to the mix, and the payback period is shorter.

I don't care for government-mandated or subsidized programs, but then I don't know everything. In fact, the older I get, the less I care to know.

Let's address the rural areas. If you frequently exceed the range of an EV, it's not for you. However, I've lived in a rural area and only drove about 50 miles a day. At 5 miles per KWH, I'd use about $1.60 in electricity per day at $0.16/KWH. Your equivalent mpg is 5/.16 x gas price. Say it's $4.00/gal. Equivalent MPG=125 mpg.

I don't disagree to a point, but right now they are to expensive for the average guy and not for large families. So they have there place, but were far off from having one in every garage. If you have an A to B life they work great. My son had a Hybrid (which makes sense in some cases) which he used to and from work. But next to it is a Suburban for the wife to haul around three kids, friends and a dog. Of course then there are vacations etc. Right now not practicable for the aveage family. Cheers.
 
Last edited:
I'm not trying to convince anyone to use an EV. There are many considerations. My main ones are I seldom leave town; I have another car; the price was the same as a comparable gasoline car.

Assume I drive 100,000 miles in the next ten years in my Nissan Versa. It gets 25 mph. Assume all prices stay the same. Use $4.00/gallon for gas. $40 for oil changes with a 6,000-mile interval.

Gas: $10,000
Oil changes: $667
Brake pad replacement:
Water pump replacement:
Alternator replacement:
Timing belt replacement:

Electricity: $.012/KWH
5 mi/KWH
Electricity cost: $2400 (free at my son's work).
Oil changes: 0
Brake pad replacement: 0 (Electric cars can use regenerative braking.)
Scheduled maintenance: None except for tire rotation.
 
I'm not trying to convince anyone to use an EV. There are many considerations. My main ones are I seldom leave town; I have another car; the price was the same as a comparable gasoline car.

Assume I drive 100,000 miles in the next ten years in my Nissan Versa. It gets 25 mph. Assume all prices stay the same. Use $4.00/gallon for gas. $40 for oil changes with a 6,000-mile interval.

Gas: $10,000
Oil changes: $667
Brake pad replacement:
Water pump replacement:
Alternator replacement:
Timing belt replacement:

Electricity: $.012/KWH
5 mi/KWH
Electricity cost: $2400 (free at my son's work).
Oil changes: 0
Brake pad replacement: 0 (Electric cars can use regenerative braking.)
Scheduled maintenance: None except for tire rotation.

For me the cost is not an issue. I want something I can depend on. If I forget to plug in my elec razor - oh well. If the elec goes out in the middle of the night (storm) or what ever. I don't want to be stranded.
 
it’s not just that - in a very Milton Friedman way it simply saves money.

The problem with these discussions it has gone tribal, so much so there are a slew of people who would rather spend more money on energy, now subsidizing coal and gas because that is what they are used to and on the flip side rather than arguing economics, folks argue carbon footprint which itself sounds more like a virtue argument rather than a fiscal conservative one, the former simply arouses suspicion and the latter people just don’t get even if you spell it out as you just did.

It's an interesting argument but, in my area, natural gas is about 1/3 the cost of electricity per BTU. It has been all my life.
I am unaware of subsidies being given to the oil and gas industry that compare to the massive subsidies and incentives handed out to the solar, wind and electric car industries.
 
For me the cost is not an issue. I want something I can depend on. If I forget to plug in my elec razor - oh well. If the elec goes out in the middle of the night (storm) or what ever. I don't want to be stranded.

All the more reason to have an electric car. Few people will need to recharge every day. They will start in the coldest weather. The defroster is virtually instant-on, so your windows won't fog up in cold weather. Your battery never goes dead. I never have to stop for gas in cold or hot or any type of weather. I won't get mugged at the gas station as some do.

Like anything, everyone has their own criteria. That's why it seems everyone has a different type of vehicle in their driveway.

Truthfully, I'd rather walk anyplace four miles or less away, but I'm getting too old for that. From 2008 to 2021, I only averaged driving 5,000 miles a year. That includes a couple of long trips.

Time to go cut my grass with my electric lawnmower. I can use it at 6:30 am because it's almost silent.
 
It's an interesting argument but, in my area, natural gas is about 1/3 the cost of electricity per BTU. It has been all my life.
I am unaware of subsidies being given to the oil and gas industry that compare to the massive subsidies and incentives handed out to the solar, wind and electric car industries.

Now, you are comparing heating with gas to electric. Gas is better unless a person has a solar roof.

I can't speak factually about subsidies. I can only speak factually about what I've experienced, and then I give my own spin because I'm 68 years old and expected to do that.
 
There is another option available in our area. I haven't seen the contract, but I did listen to the sales pitch. There is a company in our area that will install solar panels on the house for free. The owner gets as much free electricity as they use. The installers get the profit from the excess electricity sold to the electric company.
 
It's an interesting argument but, in my area, natural gas is about 1/3 the cost of electricity per BTU. It has been all my life.
I am unaware of subsidies being given to the oil and gas industry that compare to the massive subsidies and incentives handed out to the solar, wind and electric car industries.

That has definitely been historically true in my area as well ( well double more recently rather than triple ). Electricity has historically been a terrible way to heat your home for precisely that reason. One of the differences here is gas to heat a home is basically 100% efficient, using natural gas or oil to move a car is not 100% efficient, so you make up the BTU difference as per the calculations above.

The other way to put this is the whole sale generation cost of electricity via solar is pushing electricity prices towards zero in a way the SD / ND fields pushed natural gas prices to 0 and further on the consumer side I can wipe out my transmission costs by generating my “fuel” on top of my house, basically halfing my electricity cost for most areas. That is why the retail payback of solar is so competitive now.

Moore’s law and a two fold difference against the current cheapest fuel ( natural gas ) + coupled with electric motor efficiencies is an excel spreadsheet away from a futures investment.
 
For me the cost is not an issue. I want something I can depend on. If I forget to plug in my elec razor - oh well. If the elec goes out in the middle of the night (storm) or what ever. I don't want to be stranded.


What you are saying - to put it in finance terms - is the $7500 a year fuel cost (using the numbers above) is a hedge/insurance policy that is worth it to you - in contrast to people who just want to have an extra $7500 a year to buy more razors or whatever ;). The other approach that would be the best of both worlds is to put the first years $7500 in savings into a whole house generator - an insurance/hedge designed precisely for that contingency and now you get to save $7500 a year (for all future years) and you have peace of mind with regards to your storm / emergency issues.

For most of the US the plugin hybrids are the best of both worlds - working on electricity for daily grocery / commuting trips and a conventional gas car for long hauls all built into the exact same car.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom