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Educating the ignorant. Shop owners and their pricing.

This is why I like the antique store near me. The owner seem to be aware of the rising demand for vintage shaving gear, and yet his only real reaction to it is that he wishes he could make more money on it. Which is to say, there are people out there who are selling old razors to him, THEY know what they are worth, he's got a pretty good idea of what a fair price would be, but he won't resort to price gouging, even though he invariably has to pay more per razor now than he did say, 10 years ago. His prices aren't going up though.

I really appreciate what he's doing. I have made 3 separate purchases from him. Two times I bought a single razor, and the third time I bought like, 4 or 5. His sticker prices were probably a little higher than what I'd pay here on the BST, but nowhere near fleabay pricing. When I pointed out that an Old Type had a cracked barrel, he immediately offered to take 5 bucks off. I wasn't even really looking for a discount, I was just sort of "observing out loud". Last the I went in, he just have me an arbitrary rounded down number kind of discount, without me even asking. I was perfectly happy paying sticker price.

He's even told me how he can barely keep this stuff on the shelf anymore, so he obviously knows he could get more for it, but he's being pretty cool about. He's got my number, and he knows to call me now whenever they get new old shaving gear in, and as long as keeps doing things the way he's doing it, he'll keep making money on me.

I guess my point here, if there is one, is that there are thankfully still some good people out there who aren't just trying to milk us for all we're worth. Some of them are still in antiquing for love of antiques I guess. Nice to know.
 

Space_Cadet

I don't have a funny description.
What I would do is come to the seller and say to him: Wow! This is the first time I see this model, it is extremely rare and precious, the price should be at least 500$ !.
 
Thats right Fenris. I had a good relationship with a shop owner in Ogden Ut. He didnt have my # but we did alot of business with each other. He introduced me to a new term called "man-tiques". He said shave related items are his best sellers. He cant seem to keep it on the shelves. With that in mind it seems that some shop owners will want to cash in on the flavor of the moment. I understand they have to make some money on their items and I account for that. But knowingly...or unknowingly assigning an indescriminate price on a seemingly run of the mill item like this razor I posted, I learned she priced it based more on fualty logic and an uneducated guess rather than fair market price.
 
I bought these NOS gillette blades (pack of 10) from 1938 a while back:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...e-blade-collectors-club?p=6693448#post6693448

The box had a wrapper and everything. It was $5.

I noticed that the seller also had a box of star blades (pack of 5) for $5, it didn't make sense to me to buy that one. Since i was getting 10 blades for $5.

I asked the seller if she would sell me the star blades for $2.50, she said no because her husband had priced them. I said ok and walked away.
 
The thought that it's somehow "presumptuous" to negotiate, bargain, or otherwise discuss price with an antique dealer is just absurd. Call it semantics, call it what you will, but taking the price you're handed from these folks unquestioned is what I call, "stupid."
 
You should have asked the shop keeper how many more of those she would like to buy for her inventory at the low price of $75. Could have been a money making opportunity. ;)
 
So, that's what we do here when people disagree with an approach? Use labels like "stupid" and "Dogmatic"? In none of my posts dis I suggest taking the price offered. However, I don't think that it's polite to "educate" an owner of an item for sale. Negotiate on the price? Sure, been there and done that. But the term "educate" indicates that the seller somehow needs to be enlightened by someone else.

You both have the option to place me on your ignore lists if you'd like. Otherwise, pigeon holing or using labels is really unnecessary and ungentlemanly IMO.

Good day,

Frank

Lighten up Frank, no one is putting you on an ignore list ( at least not me ).

I asked you a simple question. You decided to not answer that question, and when I commented on your answer ( that had nothing to do with my question) you hit me with "semantics" and "moving on". Does the word dogmatic really offend you when you decided not to answer any questions when someone simply asks you to explain you views, considering you used the word "presumptuous" towards others?
 
"Presumptuous" and "ungentlemanly"

Why in the world would I ignore someone who has labeled me as such? lol You'll have no such luck, sir.
 
Call it semantics, call it what you will, but taking the price you're handed from these folks unquestioned is what I call, "stupid."

If it's not at a market stall, I normally do not bargain. It is very uncommon here in regular shops. I am actually surprised you call that stupid.
 
Fenris's dealer is a smart man. I'm familiar with the art/rare book market, and some retailers set unrealistically high prices, not because they are rip-off con-men - or women. Rather, they love their stuff too much. Price it high and they don't have to watch their babies walk out the doors.

I priced a bunch of books once, low, and my boss questioned me about it. "Are you collecting books or selling books?" I asked. He saw my point.

But when I see a written price, that's it. I hate bargaining, probably because I hated it over the years when people tried to bargain with me. It's not the the Fnaa in Marrakech...
 

Doc4

Stumpy in cold weather
Staff member
If it's not at a market stall, I normally do not bargain. It is very uncommon here in regular shops. I am actually surprised you call that stupid.

But when I see a written price, that's it. I hate bargaining, probably because I hated it over the years when people tried to bargain with me. It's not the the Fnaa in Marrakech...

There's at time and a place for everything ... ("... and it's called College" --Chef)

... and there's a time and place for haggling. When I was a kid, I collected stamps. There was a guy who ran a stamp & coin shop in town, and I'd be there about once a week to blow my allowance. After a while, he got fed up with a good kid paying sticker prices all the time, and started haggling with me.

Me: "I'll take that one and that one and those two ... here's my $6.25."
Him: "How 'bout you tell me you'll give me five bucks for them, and I say five fifty, and you say okay."
Me: " ... um, okay."
Him: "Done".

Bless his soul. He even occasionally gave me old money in change back.

Then I tried it at the bookstore:
Me: "This one is $5.95 and this one is $4.95 ... I'll give you ten bucks for the two."
Bookseller: "Nope."

Oh well.

It can be cultural, too: social norms vary from place to place. In North America, haggling over car and house prices is expected ... haggling over food at the grocery store is not. In North America at any rate, I get the sense that the antique market is one place where a bit of haggling is perfectly acceptable. And of course one of the most common tactics in haggling is the exchange of information, with the intent of undermining the other person's perceived value of the item and supporting your own offer.
 
In my experience, it is a waste of time trying to explain to a shopkeeper, particularly an antiques dealer, that their price is too high. In too many of their minds, they are the expert, and you are not. Good luck with that, I stopped a long time ago.
Better to go into your local shops, assess them and their prices with a critical eye, and frequent the one that price things realistically.
I have 3 antiques shops on Main Street in my town. The first one you come to has astronomical pricing, but good quality. They cater to those who have a lot of cash and like to spend it. She is not interested in anyone's opinion of her prices. She sells more because her prices are high, and her customers expect this.
3 doors down from them is my favorite place. He prices things realistically, going on ebay and other places and looking for actual purchase prices, not asking prices. And he takes condition into account, and prices accordingly. He gets all of my business.
3 or 4 more doors down is a much larger shop, with a huge inventory, and the owner has no clue at all about vintage shaving gear. What she carries is over priced and worn beyond usefulness. I don't even attempt to tell her, as I doubt vintage razors are a booming business for her, so I doubt the interest is there.
 
I hate to add to this, but let me rant about a recent interaction on the BST as it's not that different from the shop owners you mention. I won't name names to protect all concerned. I responded to an ad for a number of items on the BST but politely pointed out that the total being asked was above the price of the same items brand new at our well known vendors. I also said I might be interested in a subset of the lot for a good price. He came back with a price that was above the combined price plus shipping at a well-known B&B vendor. I pointed that out, especially as one of his items was less than full. He got upset and said I was entitled. He offered to sell me each item for exactly the list price. I said No Thanks. We got off on the wrong foot but at any rate good luck with his sale. He came back and said I seemed to want something for nothing. But in fact he was expecting full price. He said, Why buy from Vendor X when you can buy from me for the same price? I tried to part amicably but instead he shot back

"Sorry I think you are entitled. Like I should give you something for free because of what?"

He was rude in other interactions and wouldn't leave well enough alone. Funny how someone selling things at full price thinks that anything below that is insulting and that a buyer politely refusing the offer is somehow guilty of improper behavior. At this point I wouldn't take his items if he paid me for them. I have put this seller on my Ignore List but I just wanted to let off steam about a very frustrating exchange with a rude and ignorant person that is fortunately rare in this forum.
 
I hate to add to this, but let me rant about a recent interaction on the BST as it's not that different from the shop owners you mention. I won't name names to protect all concerned. I responded to an ad for a number of items on the BST but politely pointed out that the total being asked was above the price of the same items brand new at our well known vendors. I also said I might be interested in a subset of the lot for a good price. He came back with a price that was above the combined price plus shipping at a well-known B&B vendor. I pointed that out, especially as one of his items was less than full. He got upset and said I was entitled. He offered to sell me each item for exactly the list price. I said No Thanks. We got off on the wrong foot but at any rate good luck with his sale. He came back and said I seemed to want something for nothing. But in fact he was expecting full price. He said, Why buy from Vendor X when you can buy from me for the same price? I tried to part amicably but instead he shot back

"Sorry I think you are entitled. Like I should give you something for free because of what?"

He was rude in other interactions and wouldn't leave well enough alone. Funny how someone selling things at full price thinks that anything below that is insulting and that a buyer politely refusing the offer is somehow guilty of improper behavior. At this point I wouldn't take his items if he paid me for them. I have put this seller on my Ignore List but I just wanted to let off steam about a very frustrating exchange with a rude and ignorant person that is fortunately rare in this forum.

Yeah, unfortunately a lot of folks just don't really understand what a market is. Something is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay. The seller's cost or idea about what the price should be, is irrelevant. Of course, it's totally their option to price however they like..but they have to be willing to accept that no buyer will meet them, or if there is a buyer at that price, it might take a very long time to find them. Simple, basic economics.
 
I don't think it's fair for this shop owner to say that it is an 1897 shaving kit when it clearly isn't. That's basically dishonest. On the other hand, unless I was interested in buying it, I wouldn't have wasted my time trying to educate the owner about the going rate for such razors. I mean, if I went into a shop and saw a double ring in mint condition for $20 I wouldn't try to educate them, I'd just buy it, so I think I should be consistent in my behaviour.
 
The one shop I deal with regularly has good prices and does his research, but there is another factor that keeps me going back to him. His willingness and desire to learn more about the products he sells. He will price the best he can, but oftentimes he will ask me how much I think it is worth. I 'm honest with him, to the best of my knowledge. There have been a couple of times where I have said to him, "I've never seen one of those before. I can't give you a price, because it could be worth a ton, or it could be worth nothing."
He and I both have gone back to ebay and other sources to research and find an answer.
He is an honest businessman. He wants fair market value, but he's not trying to gouge anyone. They are out there, you just have to look for them.
I will look at their shop, what they have to offer, and their prices. If the things I am familiar with(not just shaving stuff) are priced fairly well, then I will engage them in conversation and get an idea of what makes them "tick".
 
i am fascinated by the polarizing effect of the original post. i had no idea what to expect when i popped in, but by the third reply i had to finish the whole thread. i'm not sure why so many hackles were raised but i guess where money and pride are involved... oldschoolsteel, i wonder if you educate sellers when they have a cache of beautiful, vintage gear on sale for pennies and a song? that said, i think it's ok to find out where a seller stands on a price. are they committed? will they move? how did they come by this price? maybe that razor was used by the king of england, or rick james, which adds some quantity of sentimental value that would otherwise preclude a high asking price. how would we know if we never asked?

i won't tell anyone to lighten up as i think we are all entitled to be as high strung as we care to be, but i must say, i love people who name-call as they decry name-calling.
 
I just emailed a seller on eBay and asked them why they were quoting $130 to send a razor from the USA to Thailand, when the actual cost is $24.75 so I'm just as bad as oldschoolsteel, if not worse. I have no intention of buying the razor in question, I just get infuriated by people that think they can rip others off.
 
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