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Edge or Technique?

I understand. So tomorrow I will apply some pressure while the blade its at the proper angle—if required.

I will also start the stroke before contacting the skin.

These two ideas are encouraging.
 
Spline distance and shave angle are slightly subjective based the edge. Freehand honing can give a slight variation on the optimum cutting angle 📐 so experiment on the hold. I can tell you the blade barely touches my face at about a 20-30 angle and it’s ready to shave a month old beard off with the slightest of blade pressure. Think of a butter knife gliding through soft butter pressure.
Thanks again, Possum.
 
Well, it sounds to me like the biggest problem is the straight razor's edge. But putting a few laps on uber- fine abrasive charged balsa will cure almost anything IMO and IME. And again in my own experience, just 10 or 20 very short laps will make an almost unbelievable difference in a razor's edge. Following on with a max. of 10 very short 'X' strokes, more in-line with the spine than spine leading will maintain and actually improve and edge until the edge is really maxed' out and as sharp as it can be made using any conventional method. I am NOT saying this is the most desirable edge, just that it will be as sharp as any edge can be made with common materials, used is a simple environment (non- laboratory).

As to the angle, again IMO it is not that important for a good shave. Too much angle is hard on the blade edge but will actually shave pretty well although may also yield a bit of irritation. Still, I would not concentrate too much on watching the angle of the blade too precisely but instead concentrate on a proper prep. (for me, both hair conditioner and grapeseed oil work great if I give them enough time to soften my beard, perhaps six to eight minutes), building a well- hydrated lather and getting and maintaining a very sharp edge. The actual technique will come with time while these basic pre- shave things really are pretty critical, at least on my own face.

As to the age thing, I was not all that much younger than you when I started straight shaving. It has been a while for me now and I can readily wet- shave and get all the hair and scritch off my face and not take enough skin to cause much if any irritation and certainly no significant hydraulic system leaks.

In my opinion the only thing needed to become skillful at straight shaving is to want to do it in the first place, and enjoying it all along the way. That and a bit of tenacity and virtually anyone can and will be successful I believe.

Best of luck going forward but especially, enjoy the trip!

<snip>

Thanks, BDF. If I didn't mention, I only used the straight on my cheeks. Only attempted WTG. I did my entire neck with my Merkur DE, and "cleaned up" my cheeks to BBS with my Merkur DE as well. There was no drag or reluctance with that blade, nor has there ever been. That DE shaves very close. There is indeed a sizeable difference between my straight and my safety razor--but I've been using it for 30 years.

Despite my efforts I have to accept it is either the blade, or the angle. I did my best to maintain that "single spine" angle, but will accept that I might not have done that as well as I could have. I will certainly practice. Thanks for the reply.

<snip>

I'm all over the second one. I'm very aware that at 56 years old, the first time using a straight razor is not the time to expect miracles.

In a day or two my balsa strip strops at 50K, 100K and 200K will be "cured" and after I get further instructions, I will run the blade through those 3 as directed on the "how to use. . . ." thread (or .pdf), and go from there. I'm sure I'll receive some pearls of wisdom while I wait.

<snip>
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
@SparkyLB within a week or so of daily SR shaving, you will look back on this threads and wonder what all the fuss was about. It just takes time, perseverance and concentration.

Almost all SR shavers experienced problems at the beginning. All part of the fun of learning. If SR shaving was easy, we wouldn't enjoy it as much.
 
I'm certain your edge was fine. When I started it was said to start with the blade flat on your face, it won't cut, and as you move the blade raise the spine till you hear or feel the razors shaving. This will be the correct shaving angle

A lot of practice and don't forget the importance of stretching your skin
 
I'm certain your edge was fine. When I started it was said to start with the blade flat on your face, it won't cut, and as you move the blade raise the spine till you hear or feel the razors shaving. This will be the correct shaving angle

A lot of practice and don't forget the importance of stretching your skin
Since you mention, that is sort of how it happened. At first it was just tug. Then I adjusted the angle until I heard the familiar sound, but it was short-lived. The fact that I heard it is probably the most important thing. That means I can do it again. That means eventually, I'll hear that sound for almost the entire shave. That means things are be OK. 😀

You folks are the best.
 
[I write this post while listening to Bob Dylan's Saved - excellent album, BTW.]

First, congrats on your first shave with a straight. Memorable, right? Excellent description, BTW.

Brings back memories of my first shave about 1.5 years ago - also a new Dovo from Jared. I would give the razor about 50 laps on leather - if you have a strop - and try it one more time on one of your cheeks, and then take it through a full progression of diamond paste on balsa (0.5, 0.25 and 0.1). This should tell you whether Jarod's edge was or was not sharp enough for your beard.

When I bought my first shave-ready Dovo from Jared, I also bought a shave-ready vintage razor from a seller on eBay, and Jared's edge turned out to be the sharper and smoother of the two edges. At the time, a full diamond paste progression on Jared's edge also helped me. I remember having trouble removing all of the hair from my face until I used the diamond paste.

There is also the issue of technique. My technique has surely improved. I now shave straight off of stone with no problem. Are my honed edges sharper? Has my technique improved? Or some combination of the two. No scientific answer, but my guess is both. Technique matters!
 
This is one of those times where having a $20 Artist Club razor around really helps. It might be harder to shave with, but the technique is the same. The key is having a known sharp edge to see if it is your technique. I realise these blades can bite so a simple test on an easy flat area would be all thats necessary. The shorter blade also comes in handy for hard to reach spots occasionally. Later on, if an area seems like it's not getting cut properly, you can carefully test your technique. But by then you will have sharp straight so it will be all technique. Good luck on your next try!
 
Congrats on your first straight razor shave. A nick or cut is sort of to be expected the first time. I also would put your problems down to technique if the edge came from Jarrod at TSS. That said, subsequent stropping should pick things up a bit. What kind of strop do you have to start out with? I would suggest just stropping with plain linen and plain leather at this stage before moving to some kind of pasted balsa.

With straights, I tend to make a more sweeping pass than with safety razors. But that comes with confidence which is near impossible in starting out with a straight. Skin stretching is very important as is blade angle and an experienced hand. Sounds like you did well in keeping the spine just one spine width's away. I also shave the left side of my face with my left hand and the right side of my face with my right hand. One thing I've learned from this is that I'm more ambidextrous than society has led me to think.

(Off-topic: Last night I listened to an approximation of the early 1968 Basement Tapes acetate that Albert Grossman was shopping around to musicians at the time. Really a great collection of songs and a great distillation of the complete Basement Tapes as recorded.)
 
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In the beginning, I was confusing the word hone and strop. As a result, my plan of attack went like this: get a new high-quality shaver from someone who knows what they're doing (Jarrod and The Superior Shave were mentioned), order it PREPARED, don't strop when you get it--SHAVE, then go thru the .5, .25, .1 micron progression and (this is where I had it messed up) you never have to STROP. NOW I understand you'll likely never have to get the blade HONED (sharpened, or reshaped) again.

As a result of my misunderstanding I did not buy a strop, because my incorrect mental course of events confused hone and strop. So I don't have a strop. However, I do have a 4' x 4' piece of buckskin from a deer I shot 20 or so years ago. For those who may not know, buckskin, (not the suede side but the smooth side) is so soft, if you had a circular piece the size of a dinner plate and put it on top of a pencil, it would drape on the pencil almost as tightly as an umbrella secured to it's mechanism. I'm trying to express how soft and supple it is.

Could I get a flat piece of substrate and perhaps stretch this over it, secure it permanently and use it as a strop? It's softer than butter and by virtue of its composition, provides a tremendous amount of friction. Being a newcomer I don't know if the softness and friction lend themself to stropping, or not so much.

Not looking for a shortcut. If advised I'll buy a strop, but don't own one at the moment.

Tomorrow my balsa strips will be "cured" and, depending on what I hear from you folks; I will wait to buy a strop first, or will run it through the .5, .25, .1 progression before I shave and I'll let you all know how it goes.

Looking forward to it.
 
BTW, a pic of my new Dovo. Ebony scales.

Dovo Prima.png
 
Very nice. My first razor was a (square-point) Dovo with ebony scales from TSS as well.

For now, I would suggest waiting for a plain strop to arrive before you shave with the razor again. And avoid the temptation to pass the razor on the pasted balsa until you know what the edge is like off the plain strop. Since you've ordered with Jarrod and TSS, perhaps you might start out with a strop he has to offer like this one: Herold 193J Russian Leather Straight Razor Strop | Linen Rear Component | 2 x 15″ Stropping Plane | Made in Solingen Germany – The Superior Shave - https://thesuperiorshave.com/product/herold-193j-russian-leather-with-linen-rear-razor-strop-2-x-15/. You could always use it later as a travel strop or a Solingen-pasted strop once you've learned the ropes and want to move on. A Tony Miller beginner strop would also be an option and would give you a range of choices.

Straights also like longer whiskers, I find. I shave every 72 hours or so.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
In the beginning, I was confusing the word hone and strop. As a result, my plan of attack went like this: get a new high-quality shaver from someone who knows what they're doing (Jarrod and The Superior Shave were mentioned), order it PREPARED, don't strop when you get it--SHAVE, then go thru the .5, .25, .1 micron progression and (this is where I had it messed up) you never have to STROP. NOW I understand you'll likely never have to get the blade HONED (sharpened, or reshaped) again.

As a result of my misunderstanding I did not buy a strop, because my incorrect mental course of events confused hone and strop. So I don't have a strop. However, I do have a 4' x 4' piece of buckskin from a deer I shot 20 or so years ago. For those who may not know, buckskin, (not the suede side but the smooth side) is so soft, if you had a circular piece the size of a dinner plate and put it on top of a pencil, it would drape on the pencil almost as tightly as an umbrella secured to it's mechanism. I'm trying to express how soft and supple it is.

Could I get a flat piece of substrate and perhaps stretch this over it, secure it permanently and use it as a strop? It's softer than butter and by virtue of its composition, provides a tremendous amount of friction. Being a newcomer I don't know if the softness and friction lend themself to stropping, or not so much.

Not looking for a shortcut. If advised I'll buy a strop, but don't own one at the moment.

Tomorrow my balsa strips will be "cured" and, depending on what I hear from you folks; I will wait to buy a strop first, or will run it through the .5, .25, .1 progression before I shave and I'll let you all know how it goes.

Looking forward to it.
For the time being, forget about stropping on leather. I did a test a while ago for a few weeks where I shaved with just one SR. I didn't strop on leather or linen before or after each shave. I only maintained the edge after each shave with a 0.1μm diamond pasted hanging balsa strop. There was no difference between the SR stropped on leather and stropped just on 0.1μ balsa.

I still strop on clean leather before each shave but that's just because I enjoy the feel and experience of doing it.

Once your balsa strops are ready, put your SR through a full diamond pasted balsa strop progression. Then just shave with it. Don't strop it on leather (yet). Keep on putting it through a full balsa strop progression after each shave until you notice no further improvement in the edge quality. Then just maintain on 0.1μm hanging after each shave.

By all means, get yourself a leather/cloth strop. Never paste it. Enjoy using it before each shave (leather) and after each shave (cloth) to clean the bevel/edge. Continue maintaining it on 0.1μm hanging after each shave and cleaning.
 
From his description (I don't know what a Coticule is), the job is started on a stone with a 6 foot radius, and finished on a stone with a 2 foot radius (I'm going from memory, and it might be the other way around; but it's those two radii.)

He also strives to create a hollow grind at the very tip, like a chisel sharpened on a rotating stone.

BTW, I just ran the blade over my forearm hairs about 1/4" away from the skin. It cut a very small percentage of the hairs with quite a bit of tugging. Is this undesirable? There were perhaps 10 hairs on the blade, I blew it clean, folded the blade and placed it back in the box. I then rubbed my forearm over the sink and another dozen or so hairs fell from my arm.

Those radiused stones that Jarod uses are Belgian Coticules. AFAIK Jarrod is the only person in the States who has been certified by Dovo to hone their razors using radiused stones. Although it is not strictly proper to use grit ratings with natural stones like Coticules, many people say they produce an edge similar in sharpness to an 8K Naniwa. Coticules do produce a very smooth edge that some people love. For those with coarse beards, however, Coticule edges may not be nearly sharp enough.

You might also want to obtain a hone with a higher grit (minimum of 12K) to further refine your edge. However, this will requiire you to learn some new skills in honing.

You might want to check out some of the threads on "Method" edges. That system uses pasted balsa strops to further refine and maintain your new razor edge. Every shaver who uses a straight razor must learn how to strop it between shaves. Stropping on a flat piece of pasted balsa is just an alternative to stropping on flexible leather, but the abrasive pastes sharpen and polish the edge to another level.
 
Thanks for that info, RayClem. Jarrod certainly sounds very knowledgeable. He wrote me several lengthy emails during the process to answer some of my beginner questions. I also watched a video or two of him doing the job. (Not on my razor, of course).

I completed my set of 3 pasted balsa strops two days ago, and per the .pdf, I'm giving them 48 hours to "cure." When I return home this evening, before I shave I will run the razor through the 1µ, .5µ and .1µ progression and see how that goes. No matter the outcome, with the response of the forum and genuine interest in my progress, I'm not worried. The end result is already determined. The only variable is time. I KNOW I'll succeed.

.....if only I had a microscope!
 
Thing to remember is that when you use pasted strops, you are sharpening or altering the edge as received. Stropping on plain leather seeks to restore the edge, not sharpen. Like I said above, and assuming that Jarrod did not strop it before sending (which is why I suggested asking for it to be stropped before sending out), it is better to wait and strop the edge that he sent you on plain leather, and shave with it to see what it is capable of as received. If it still is not "sharp" enough, then strop on the pasted balsa to pick up the edge a little. In the short term, there is nothing to lose in waiting.
 
@Alum of Potash, in knife sharpening; sharpening refers to altering the bevel angle that has increased from repeated honing. After each use, the knife is honed on a sharpening steel that realigns/trues-up the edge but does not remove or alter the bevel angle.

Is there a difference in these definitions regarding straight razors? I think that stropping on a straight razor is the equivalent of honing a knife on a sharpening steel (using leather instead of a steel). Stropping realigns and does not reshape or alter the bevel angle. It is not done with stones or steel but with leather. I need to get my terms correct.

From what I understand,
1. pasted strops, being diamond--would remove material and would be the equivalent of sharpening.
2. leather is to a razor what a sharpening steel is to a knife.

Finally--if I use pasted diamond strops I can undo what Jarrod did. If I use leather, I will only true up an edge and not alter what Jarrod spent so much time to achieve.

I know you're all happy to help, but is there any literature I can read regarding this to give you all a break from my incessant questioning? I already get the feeling that rbscebu woul tell me to stop asking questions follow instructions!! :facep:(I say that with a smile)
 
Usually with razors we can use the terms sharpening and honing to talk about the work we do on the stones (usually edge leading). Stropping refers as much to the edge trailing motion as it does the medium. But *almost* everyone finishes on leather of some sort regardless of what they did prior.

From a theory perspective, everything after the bevel setting stage is edge refinement. Whether it's finer stones, pasted strops, or leather.
 
@Alum of Potash, in knife sharpening; sharpening refers to altering the bevel angle that has increased from repeated honing. After each use, the knife is honed on a sharpening steel that realigns/trues-up the edge but does not remove or alter the bevel angle.

Is there a difference in these definitions regarding straight razors? I think that stropping on a straight razor is the equivalent of honing a knife on a sharpening steel (using leather instead of a steel). Stropping realigns and does not reshape or alter the bevel angle. It is not done with stones or steel but with leather. I need to get my terms correct.

From what I understand,
1. pasted strops, being diamond--would remove material and would be the equivalent of sharpening.
2. leather is to a razor what a sharpening steel is to a knife.

Finally--if I use pasted diamond strops I can undo what Jarrod did. If I use leather, I will only true up an edge and not alter what Jarrod spent so much time to achieve.

I know you're all happy to help, but is there any literature I can read regarding this to give you all a break from my incessant questioning? I already get the feeling that rbscebu woul tell me to stop asking questions follow instructions!! :facep:(I say that with a smile)

For me, plain stropping of razors is acting like a fine plain steel for kitchen knives, in that it is realigning the edge rather than removing material, the latter of which is the case in sharpening. So, after you shave, or off a finishing hone, the razor's edge is ever so lightly deformed, needing realignment or final alignment in the case of a finishing hone.

In short, if Jarrod did not plain-strop the razor before he sent it out to you, then it needed a final alignment off the coticule or Arkansas stone via plain stropping before you shaved with it, which may account for its having felt "dull" (although this may well have had to do with a lack of skill in starting out too). Shaving with it, stropped or not stropped as the case may be, deforms the edge and plain stropping is therefore needed to realign things afterwards.

I use pasted balsa as needed with knives, not razors, Solingen metal-pigment pastes not diamonds, so I cannot say how fine the finest diamond balsa strop in your sequence might be; but it is true that it may have little to no effect as far as sharpening is concerned. But to be on the safe side, in wanting to know what the edge as received is like, it is better IMO to use plain leather at first to determine this, or plain balsa if balsa is being insisted upon, then move to the pasted strops if improvement is deemed necessary.

As for the effectiveness of realignment through plain stropping, let me give you an example. A lot of folks on the shaving forums will speak of "killing the edge" on the lip of a glass or on the side or corner of an Arkansas stone, so as to create a kind of tabula rasa from which to begin bevel-setting or formation of the edge with synths from 1k on up. But rather than truly "dulling" or "killing" the edge, what passing the edge on glass or stone is really doing is deforming the edge, albeit far more greatly than a routine shave would do. To understand this better for myself, I tried an experiment a few years ago. Taking a razor that was shaving quite well, I drew the edge across the lip of a wine glass two times to "kill" the edge. Afterwards, it was no longer cutting arm hair, passing the HHT, etc. Instead of then taking it to the stones to set the bevel, I stropped the razor on a plain leather strop for up to about 20-30 minutes, checking things from time to time. After continued stropping, the edge gradually returned to the point where I could shave with it once again. Of course it was not shaving as well as it had before, but it convinced me of the effectiveness of edge realignment.
 
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