Edge of blade and spine out of alinement.

[HippieDave]

Picked up a Wade & Butcher with broken scales and tarnish but no rust and not too much use wear.
I did about 20 laps on a King 1000 to see what the bevel looked like.
On one side the bevel looks ok at the heal but tapers to nothing at the toe.
On the other side the bevel looks ok at the toe but tapers to nothing at the heal.
The wear on the spine, on both sides, is wide, narrow, wide, narrow.
How do I get the edge and spine back in alinement?

 

[*stefan*]

This is probably a razor that needs to be honed with a rolling x-stroke.
Why it is not suitable being one of the first razors learning to hone.
But put up picture with the blade on both side.

 

[Scarry Knight]

I found this some time back but haven’t had to employ it on any of mine yet. My apologies if it doesn’t apply and I am misunderstanding the matter. Others may recognize and verify if it can help you. I haven't reviewed it again recently but it may be normal for uneven spine wear when correcting the condition shown in the video, which I think may sound like yours. Does it still rock on the spine and edge as shown in here, or has it seemingly been leveled out?

 

[stone and strop]

Some good pictures would help a lot.
I assume you meant the spine wear goes from wide to narrow and narrow to wide - meaning the spine wear mimics the bevel?

 

[HippieDave]

I tried to get photos that show the problem but my phone photos just don't show it. However late last night I read a thread about how to modify a Gold Dollar and with the video here that tells me what needs to be done.
The wide, narrow, wide, narrow spine wear is on one side of the blade. I believe this is because A) whoever honed it did a bad job and B) it's a Wade & Butcher and the whole blade has a slight "smile" to it.
What needs to be done is where the edge does not make contact with the stone at the toe I have to remove steel from the spine at the toe on the same side. Where the edge does not contact the stone at the heel remove steel from the spine at the heel.
In the Gold Dollar thread it says to use sand paper with a solid, flat backing and sand only the spine.
In the video it says to tape the edge of the blade and hone the spine putting heavy pressure on the toe or heel which ever you want to reduce.
Removing steel from the spine in this manner will line the spine up with the edge.
I have a Pakistan razor I got for a dollar a while back that has this same problem so I'll try this out on that razor to see how it works.
Thanks for all the help.

 

[*stefan*]

Smiling straights need rolling x-stroke.
If it's a nice Wade & Butcher blade don't hone on it before getting a shaving edge on other straights.
While using x-stroke also.
Buy one ZY and another vintage to practice honing.
Have fun.

 

[stone and strop]

I tried to get photos that show the problem but my phone photos just don't show it. However late last night I read a thread about how to modify a Gold Dollar and with the video here that tells me what needs to be done.
The wide, narrow, wide, narrow spine wear is on one side of the blade. I believe this is because A) whoever honed it did a bad job and B) it's a Wade & Butcher and the whole blade has a slight "smile" to it.
What needs to be done is where the edge does not make contact with the stone at the toe I have to remove steel from the spine at the toe on the same side. Where the edge does not contact the stone at the heel remove steel from the spine at the heel.
In the Gold Dollar thread it says to use sand paper with a solid, flat backing and sand only the spine.
In the video it says to tape the edge of the blade and hone the spine putting heavy pressure on the toe or heel which ever you want to reduce.
Removing steel from the spine in this manner will line the spine up with the edge.
I have a Pakistan razor I got for a dollar a while back that has this same problem so I'll try this out on that razor to see how it works.
Thanks for all the help.

This is basically correct. I do not tape the edge - let it wear as well, this way you can see as the bevel starts to widen without removing too much from the spine. Pressure is concentrated at the spine for quicker removal there.
If you are new to honing I would send it to someone else to fix it for you if the razor has value to you.
If the spine has a sweep or significant curve to it - it should be honed as Stefan has said.
I suppose you could just buy a convex hone It will hone just fine on that.
Contrary to the Vendor that sells these, a warped razor can be fixed (if its not really bad) and be made to shave just fine despite being somewhat thinner in one area.
That same razor will also now be able to be honed by virtually anyone on any hone as long as the hone is flat. If you didn't fix it and honed on a convex hone you would have to use that hone alone forever or convex all your other hones.
A warped razor is a defect and not something that should be worked around, it should be fixed so it can be used with common hones and methods.
Someone new to honing would struggle to the point of frustration working on a warped razor.
Let us know how you make out.

 

[stone and strop]

I had just picked up another at the antique store last weekend and got to putting an edge on it yesterday.
This one had a minor bow in it and the edge and spine correlation is easy to see here.

On the front I needed to remove more from the heel just to get a tiny bit of bevel show up.

On the back I needed to remove more from the toe to get the bevel up.

Even though the spine has more wear in one spot it has to be reduced to get the lowest part in touch with the hone.
Despite the aesthetics, the razor is exactly the same width at the front and back now.
Turned out to be a great shaver. It has an etching on top that says "Sunday" and some decorative work. I suppose it was at one point part of a set.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Don't be surprised if the Paki blade never takes a good edge or doesn't keep one. Their steel is mostly junk. Good practice piece, but if you buy GD66 razors by the 10 box, you can get them for around $3.30/ea and after all the practice grinding, maybe end up with a pretty sweet razor or two for all your efforts.

A smiley with a spine and edge that don't agree, is a real basket of worms to get back to rights. Best to just hone it hone it hone it, with the requisite rolling x, applying pressure where it is most needed. I don't even consider working on a smiley that is all out of whack. A straight edge razor OTOH is a lot easier. If it is really bad, I don't tape the edge. Well I do, but I don't use tape. I use thin steel from a tin can lid, bent and trimmed into an edge guard, to do the initial spine grinding. For a minor correction, tape on the edge will do. Just keep most of the pressure on the spine. The edge is just your guide. When the tape is gone, retape. When it starts looking close, use a sharpie on spine and edge, hone a few laps on some 1k and see if it is hitting all along both spine and edge. Keep honing and testing until it does.

You may end up with a monstrously wide bevel on the spine. I grind away the lower part of the spine bevel so there is just a small sliver of bevel left on the spine, using the nose of a "dragster" style belt sander. You can use a dremel and sanding drum, too, and I did, before I discovered the joy of belt sanding my razors. From there, just pinch sand the spine to restore it to full roundness and then set the bevel again. The reason for this is NOT cosmetic. The reason is with an extremely wide bevel on the spine, normal honing wear will not be proportional. The spine will wear very slowly, relative to the edge due to the massive surface being honed. If it is not extreme, don't worry about it.

 

[stone and strop]

Many people will "blend" the new flat spot for visual purposes.
Fact is, when it is necessary to remove a significant amount of steel to correct a razor the angle becomes a little acute and it is ok to let the edge catch back up. I don't believe the flat spot will make things so much slower that it will ever become an issue unless it is quite large, but that's me.
Its a good idea to check the angle when this happens also. This particular razor sits at 15.5 degrees so I added 1 layer of tape to put it at a sweeter spot for me.

I will also add my reasoning for not taping the edge. If you tape the edge then remove a large amount of spine it will take a while to set the bevel again given the reduced spine width.
Not taping the edge and concentrating the pressure on the spine keeps things closer to relative when the work is done.
Everybody does it differently.

 

[HippieDave]

Thanks everyone, I've been working with the Paky trying pretty much everything everyone has mentioned here. I now understand the physics of what is going on and how get things right.
The Wade & Butcher will have to wait until I've gotten this down on a straight spine first.
I have a few other razors with curved blades that I've tried honing with an X-stroke and I'm not there yet but this is what this is all about, learning.
Thanks again and I hope others will find this thread as helpful as I have.

 

[Ice-Man]

just a matter of interest has you 1k hone been lapped as that could throw you off.

 

[global_dev]

Thanks everyone, I've been working with the Paky trying pretty much everything everyone has mentioned here. I now understand the physics of what is going on and how get things right.
The Wade & Butcher will have to wait until I've gotten this down on a straight spine first.
I have a few other razors with curved blades that I've tried honing with an X-stroke and I'm not there yet but this is what this is all about, learning.
Thanks again and I hope others will find this thread as helpful as I have.

If you are on a typical 3" wide hone, your smiling edges may need more than just an x-stroke, they will also need a rolling action.

 

[HippieDave]

just a matter of interest has you 1k hone been lapped as that could throw you off.

Yes, I lap all my hones with w/d sand paper on a 3/4" x 9" x 15" polished marble slab.

 

[HippieDave]

If you are on a typical 3" wide hone, your smiling edges may need more than just an x-stroke, they will also need a rolling action.

I meant to say rolling x-stroke. I have a heavily pitted W&B with a smiling blade that I practice doing rolling x-strokes with and I have yet to set the bevel along the whole edge.