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eBay sellers & misrepresentation.

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Ebay really do need to step up their game when it comes to wordsmiths.
Examples that come to mind 'faux silk' should be auto filled with 'satin'.
Any brand preceded with 'replica/copy/imitation' should be autofilled with 'inferior copy'.
I will not be holding my breath to see these changes actioned, as ebay is not even willing to be accountable to itself for errors in listings due to it's own infrastructure, software and coding.

By coincidence, I read a an excerpt the other day that aptly covers what I would be emailing the seller after the transaction had been fulfilled.
"Grammar is the difference between 'I helped my uncle jack off the horse' and 'I helped my uncle, Jack, off the horse'."
 
It looks like few of you read it out.
I bought something under terms that were proven to be at best inaccurate, but were probably lies intended to mislead purchasers.
I bought one item at a particular price that was offered believing the seller to be truthful in his listing.
Upon finding out that the seller was untruthful, I contacted the seller and tried to figure out what he was thinking.
I offered a resolution that would have brought me to what I would have bought the item at had I known the seller's quantity that was lied about. "What you get is the only one I've seen" versus "These are rare and you don't see them often" That is a big difference.

At no time did I threaten to leave the seller negative feedback nor did I have any intention to do so. I have never left negative feedback, nor neutral. It has always been either positive or no feedback. The SELLER is the one who stated that. I would have simply walked away and posted a warning about the seller had the seller not agreed to what I was asking. The seller

I intend to leave positive feedback for the seller, and have stated so previously.
 
The item is exactly what the ad said, but you're upset that the seller has more and suggested otherwise. Do you want it or not?

My thoughts: you do want it which is why you won't return it but you still want to leverage this to get a partial refund or discount on something else under the implied threat of bad feedback. Not very gentlemanly.

No, I was upset the seller lied. That was the entire pivot of the matter, and the reason for this post.
 
When the seller gave you an out, offered a full refund, why not just take it, chalk it up to lesson learned and walk away?

You clearly wanted the item, regardless of how rare, but wanted it for a better price then you initially paid. So you lowballed him on a second one, which you didn't even want, so it would bring down the overall price.
 
Very well.
With the added input from the rest of the crowd I have modified my intentions:
I will wait until the second one arrives, determine if they are counterfeit or not and then leave positive feedback if they are genuine.
After leaving positive feedback, I will send the seller the additional $15 for the additional belt buckle that will bring it up to the price point they wanted. (first 31.20, second 32.50-20=12.50).
If the second one proves the two to be castings, I will return both, the seller can choose to refund me or not and I'll wash my hands of it.

If I get a turd in a box or anything else, I'll post the video.

Referring to the one that I have, I am still unconvinced it is not a recent casting. The more I look at it, the more the wear to it does not look right.
 
It could of been the seller paid more for the second belt buckle which is why he listed it for more? I'm sure if it took him 3yrs to find two of them he found them in two separate places and paid two seperate prices.
 
First, you asked for opinions/advice and I disagree with some of the responses:
1) The seller apparently misrepresented the product. The seller offered a refund or, as reimbursement, a second product at an agreed upon price: the seller agreed to sell to you the second buckle at a lower (fair?) price and requested (and you apparently agreed to provide) positive feedback for both sales. If you get what was sold, in described condition then you owe positive feedback nothing more. You don't ethically or legally owe him an additional payment and I suggest you not send it. The seller seems to be dealing at the very least in a deceptive way and you entered into the second deal knowing that, and that you were buying a 'less than rare' item, so you follow through and nothing more.

2) You made a decision to make the second deal in lieu of a refund so quit complaining and walk away. If your mission was to educate others then thank you. If it is to stop the seller then you should have taken the refund, optionally given negative feedback, and reported the misleading description to ebay support. Like you, I've never given negative feedback, but I have taken a refund and reported a seller in the past. If no refund was offered, then you have a gripe. As it is (and forgive the bluntness of my remark) you chose your path and really have no further justification for complaint. To bastardize a quote: You dance with the devil - the devil doesn't change.

As for my position on the matter? I'm sure the seller has their side too, but going from what I've read here it seems the seller misrepresented the product (and I've experienced the same or similar, more so recently). First I would have done my research (you didn't do your due diligence IMO) and then I would have made a choice on dealing with an apparently dishonest seller. That said, in your position and having done the deal, I would have taken the refund and then reported the misleading information to ebay.

In the realm of straight razors you'll find hundreds of knockoffs or cheap ones sold as "rare, only a few existing". In these cases I always research the seller if the price point is significant or more than I feel is fair. There is an option in the ebay advanced search to check past auctions for a specific seller to see what they've sold and for how much (you can also do this from their feedback). There are many instances where I've done this to get a fair price for an item I found the seller to be repeatedly selling as a limited edition or as a rare item that I wanted to purchase knowing it was not necessarily rare (which seems to be the case here). Specifically, I wanted an Omega watch travel case that a seller had as 'only a few available' and I believed but couldn't prove they had a colleague bidding up the price behind the scenes. I researched the lowest price and had to bid a couple of their subsequent auctions to get that price. I could have just paid the extra and saved time but of course - it was the principal of the thing, so I chose to take the extra time - that was on me: Caveat Emptor
 
I agree with you swurster, I completely failed to do my due diligence on this transaction prior to purchase. That is why I initially did not ask for a second buckle free which would have brought the price more in line with the actual going price. I knew I had screwed up, and had to place myself in the frame of mind that I was when I was initially buying the buckle, with the knowledge that I had at the time that I was purchasing the first one. The only thing I added to my debate with the seller was the fact that he had more than he represented in the beginning. If, when I got the buckle it seemed to have normal wear markings, or none at all, I would have just not left feedback and walked away from the subject.

The wear seems suspicious, however. To be clear, I mean that some of the wear seems to be cast in to the buckle. Wear that should be smooth is sharp where the belt would rub against the buckle. Dings in the face of the
buckle have irregular edges and one large ding in in the buckle has been antiqued along with other low-lying sections. This ding is not present in any other examples I have seen so although it may be a factory error it is suspicious. Lastly, and most significant, the buckle has plating over several smooth wear spots. While not entirely significant by themselves, together they do not look good.
I have bought many other things from this seller, and up to now have wanted to buy others. If this buckle is being produced by the seller, I and perhaps a few others should know to be extra cautious with them. This is a small ticket item, yes. For one measly belt buckle, whatever. For many fake goods? A big problem.
I have to have a second buckle from the same source to determine if these are being produced by the seller. If both match certain wear points and signs... It is a copy of either it or they are both copies. That is my biggest reason for wanting to get the second buckle. If the two are different, this one may still be a fake, but the seller was at least honest enough to not likely be selling ones he made.
If it turns out to be made from the same source, I have to remove everything I have bought from this seller from my collection and verify it all. That will not be easy. The production on this buckle is very good. Too good to be a first try.

I should have mentioned all of this along with my first post, but it is long already.

TL;DR
i have bought hundreds of $ of stuff from this seller. Buckle looks fake, but good fake. Have to know whether seller is making some fake stuff. Did not do my research before hand so went with what I should have known had seller been honest.
 
The explanations are all over the place.

If your only motivation was to get another buckle from the seller, so you could compare it with yours and determine if it was a fake or not, why haggle on the price? Forgive me but it sounds like you're not liking the responses you're getting, and are now changing it to " I'm only doing this to see if he's selling fake $25 belt buckles".
 
As far as counterfeit items go: on the left is a counterfeit 1775 King George III farthing. On the right is a genuine 1771. While the 1775 appears simply corroded, there is extra metal between the hair ribbon and the RG on the face and a bizarre pattern of level differences on the back where some detail shoild have been lost that remains sharp (shield) and some lower areas that are worn next to higher areas that are not. (Bottom of dress, thighs and bottom of trident). I received the two together from one seller.
 

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The explanations are all over the place.

If your only motivation was to get another buckle from the seller, so you could compare it with yours and determine if it was a fake or not, why haggle on the price? Forgive me but it sounds like you're not liking the responses you're getting, and are now changing it to " I'm only doing this to see if he's selling fake $25 belt buckles".


In high school I was given some criticism from my english teacher: "You are writing too fast . You are skipping entire sentences, paragraphs and ideas. Slow down and read what you wrote before submitting your papers." I still do the same thing from time to time and have done it here, rather badly. Additionally, I am extremely wordy. When posting, I try to cut down on what I am saying and usually leave out a lot. My post above with the coins was much longer, I erased most of it before posting after figuring it was not needed as it went into how I figured out that the seller made an honest mistake, asked nothing of them and went on buying from them.

My reasons are multiple, and I am likely posting too quickly. My most basic reason for needing another and not wanting it is to confirm or disprove the thought that the seller is selling fake stuff. My reason for haggling is that I do not trust the honesty of the seller at this point, was frustrated at the deceit, and finally, if I was going to be getting either an identical copy, box full of pine shavings or something else not a buckle that proved the seller was not making these in house; that I would only be out an additional $20 rather than $30 if the seller chose to not refund my money. I have not opened a dispute intentionally nor do I intend to.
 
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How about some pictures of the belt buckle?

I'm not versed in the collectible belt bucket market and I would like to see what is causing such a hullabaloo.
 
First, you asked for opinions/advice and I disagree with some of the responses:
1) The seller apparently misrepresented the product. The seller offered a refund or, as reimbursement, a second product at an agreed upon price: the seller agreed to sell to you the second buckle at a lower (fair?) price and requested (and you apparently agreed to provide) positive feedback for both sales. If you get what was sold, in described condition then you owe positive feedback nothing more. You don't ethically or legally owe him an additional payment and I suggest you not send it. The seller seems to be dealing at the very least in a deceptive way and you entered into the second deal knowing that, and that you were buying a 'less than rare' item, so you follow through and nothing more.
I agree with this, but it seems like the majority of people think I was at best rude; at worst trying to rip the guy off. I will continue with my intentions to reimburse the guy and use the augmented model of thinking in the future. I forgot that eBay is geared towards helping dishonest buyers and hosing sellers now and I need to remember to keep that in mind. Paying a bit of "I am an idiot tax" to the guy does two things. It reminds me to remember that ebay is hard on sellers and it will reimburse the guy if he just really is awful at writing, descriptions, meant well and was actually being as truthful as he could be with me. I doubt that he is, but in the off chance...

2) You made a decision to make the second deal in lieu of a refund so quit complaining and walk away. If your mission was to educate others then thank you. If it is to stop the seller then you should have taken the refund, optionally given negative feedback, and reported the misleading description to ebay support. Like you, I've never given negative feedback, but I have taken a refund and reported a seller in the past. If no refund was offered, then you have a gripe. As it is (and forgive the bluntness of my remark) you chose your path and really have no further justification for complaint. To bastardize a quote: You dance with the devil - the devil doesn't change.
I initially posted this for the partial reason of getting feedback for both my actions and to see if I was seeing it all correctly. I have nobody else locally who deals online, I wanted some perspective from others who do. I also posted because I was frustrated with how a simple transaction went. The complaining part of my reasoning, you are correct; thank you: was wrong in it's intent. This was initially posted in the barbershop for those reasons. None of what I did or said was intended to be anything but the right thing. I have received remarks from decent folks that have different viewpoints than what my own was, some who expressed opinions that showed me I had not fully explained my own thoughts and some who replied in agreement with my own thoughts at the time. With respect to education; It seems the vast majority of topics and subsequent replies to those topics on this forum are intended to at least partially educate.

As for my position on the matter? I'm sure the seller has their side too, but going from what I've read here it seems the seller misrepresented the product (and I've experienced the same or similar, more so recently). First I would have done my research (you didn't do your due diligence IMO) and then I would have made a choice on dealing with an apparently dishonest seller. That said, in your position and having done the deal, I would have taken the refund and then reported the misleading information to ebay.
Thank you.

In the realm of straight razors you'll find hundreds of knockoffs or cheap ones sold as "rare, only a few existing". In these cases I always research the seller if the price point is significant or more than I feel is fair. There is an option in the ebay advanced search to check past auctions for a specific seller to see what they've sold and for how much (you can also do this from their feedback). There are many instances where I've done this to get a fair price for an item I found the seller to be repeatedly selling as a limited edition or as a rare item that I wanted to purchase knowing it was not necessarily rare (which seems to be the case here). Specifically, I wanted an Omega watch travel case that a seller had as 'only a few available' and I believed but couldn't prove they had a colleague bidding up the price behind the scenes. I researched the lowest price and had to bid a couple of their subsequent auctions to get that price. I could have just paid the extra and saved time but of course - it was the principal of the thing, so I chose to take the extra time - that was on me: Caveat Emptor
I have searched sellers in the past and found similar things happening. I do not choose to do business with those sellers on both the principle of deceit and as I usually suspect the items are fake.
 
How about some pictures of the belt buckle?

I'm not versed in the collectible belt bucket market and I would like to see what is causing such a hullabaloo.
I would, but in doing so would reveal the seller's identity with a simple eBay search. If it turns out to be fake, I will no doubt do so. If it is genuine, then by a significant number of opinions here, I am the only one proven to be rude here and should be the only one here to reap the scorn or be associated with it. I still believe the seller lied intentionally in the listing, and had the vast majority been of the same opinion, I would have been less hesitant to post pictures. As that is not the case, I cannot in good conscience at this time do anything but protect the seller. Maybe I have missed something that the others are seeing, maybe they are missing something.
For a really good reference, Mark; it is to buckles what a really nice old type would be. Not terribly rare, but you would like to have it in your collection.
 
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Deleted member 48987

I'm not sure why a second belt buckle ever became part of the equation. You say it's a resolution you offered, but one that makes no sense really.

If you don't want the item or are upset about the terms with which it was sold to you, you were offered a full refund. There was no reason to bring another buckle into play. You're really giving this too much thought.
 
I'm not sure why a second belt buckle ever became part of the equation. You say it's a resolution you offered, but one that makes no sense really.

If you don't want the item or are upset about the terms with which it was sold to you, you were offered a full refund. There was no reason to bring another buckle into play. You're really giving this too much thought.

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