Ebay Rant

[Ohio]

No they can't, earlier bids get priorty. It's built into the system to favour earlier higher bids. Sniping is fair because the highest bidder still wins, whether it's someone who bid a day before, or another sniper.
Sniping means that you don't get competitive jackasses that want to beat your bid by 25c. Because they don't know the snipers max bid, they just have to bid what the max they want to pay, rather than trying to win something as cheap as possible over the other bidders.

edit: Sniping is needed because so many people are willing to pay more than retail for so many items on ebay for some reason. Why? Because there's a lot of people out there that get competitive and keep bidding to 'win' for some reason and don't have any common sense.
The fact that those people are out there means others have to use sniping techniques to avoid those bidders.
End result is things still get sold for the amount that someone was willing to pay, there's as many mentions of people placing a ridiculously high bid to guarantee a win as there are people 'sniping' a bargain. So, over all even with sniping ebay prices are even between wins for early bidders, high bidders and snipers. The only reason for that being equal is because no matter the method used, the highest bidder will still win.

Can't you see that your reply here admits that sniping causes items to be sold for less than they would otherwise. That means thet the sniping system has stolen that much from the seller.
anything that causes the item to sell for less then it would under an open auction is stealing from the seller.

I find it funny how some of the snipers are actually touting their sniping as "good for the system" and preventing fraud or something.

Real auction continue until all bidders are finished, not at an arbitrary cutoff. Sniping is the death of honest auctions.

 

[SiBurning]

The only time I've seen snipers is when the price is rediculously low, or for an item that's rare enough that you need to pay a premium to get it, which is to say the same thing. OTOH, I've seen things worth $1000 new with bids below $100, so I bid a more realistic $400. Do those bids get taken out by snipers? Nuh uh. The only other place I see a place for sniping is when an item's selling at the low end of its normal range for whatever reason, in which case I bid low on purpose for whatever reason, so let them have it.

As I mentioned in the other thread, there are certain things I won't bid on early because they're unknown, and people gain confidence if they see other bids.

 

[luvmysuper]

In a live auction, bidding goes on till no one bids higher, that is the END of the auction. To do otherwise would be breaking the rules of the auction.
In e-bay, the auction is scheduled to end at a specific time and date. The highest bidder at the END of the auction wins. That is the rules of e-bay.
In ALL auctions, the highest bidder at the end of the auction wins. It's within the rules, so it's the way it is.
It's not "stealing" from the seller. If the seller was not happy with the profit available on e-bay, the bay would be a barren waste land with tumbleweeds blowing through.

 

[mmack66]

Can't you see that your reply here admits that sniping causes items to be sold for less than they would otherwise. That means thet the sniping system has stolen that much from the seller.
anything that causes the item to sell for less then it would under an open auction is stealing from the seller.

I find it funny how some of the snipers are actually touting their sniping as "good for the system" and preventing fraud or something.

Real auction continue until all bidders are finished, not at an arbitrary cutoff. Sniping is the death of honest auctions.

We aren't talking about Sotheby's here, we are talking about eBay, which has had, since they started, a fixed ending time to their auctions. The bidder that puts in the highest bid before the clock runs out is the winner. eBay isn't going to change the structure of their auctions to accommodate the few people that have yet to figure that out.

 

[Pete]

Admittedly, I do most of my bidding within the last 10-15 seconds of an eBay auction. However, a few years back, I came across a scenario where an early bid would've been benefical to the bidder.

I had been looking to bid on a razor. The auction wasn't set to end for another 3 days, and starting price was $0.99. No bids had been placed on the item at this point. I sent the seller a message with a question about the condition of the item. The seller replied to my message in a timely manner. Here's the twist - upon looking at the auction after the seller's reply, I noticed the starting price had been raised to $4.99! Obviously, the seller viewed my inquiry as an expression of interest, and decided to try and capitalize. I felt this was sleazy, and contacted eBay about it. According to eBay, the seller was within their rights to do this, but ONLY if there were no bids on the item at the point of the price change, which was the case in this scenario.

Out of spite, I did not bid on the razor. However, had I put in a simple initial bid of $0.99, the seller would NOT have been able to change the starting price of the item. As I said, this happened years ago, and perhaps eBay has changed the rules on this since then, but this is an odd scenario where I can see it as beneficial for someone to bid early.

 

[pablo_h]

Can't you see that your reply here admits that sniping causes items to be sold for less than they would otherwise.

No.
Lets just say that something is currently at $13 and some guy has placed a $20 bid (unknown to anyone else).
If I snipe at $20 I still lose and the seller gets $20 for the item.
However if I don't snipe and ebay noob instead bids $14, then $15, then $16, then $17, then 18 then $20 all in the space of 2 min a day before the auction ends, just because they are a n00b, the first bidder of $20 still wins.
Hows that different?
Even if the sniper won for $21, the earlier bidder put down as much as they were prepared to pay, and so did the sniper. The sniper didn't even know the prvious bidder's max was $20. They took a gamble and only had one chance at it, just like anyone bidding against snipers didn't have any further chances.

The problem with ebay is that if you are an early bidder, you are at a disadvantage. N00b can keep probing until they beat you.
That puts "the fire and forget" early high bidder at a disadvantage, they may be away from their PC when the auction ends, and they may lose just over a few pennies.
If everyone just places their max bids early, or everyone snipes, the highest bidder will always win. I snipe so the noob probing the bids and trying to win by a few pennies doesn't get a look in, stuff them. They are the problem with ebay, not snipers. They are the one's 'stealing' an item for just a few extra cents IMHO.

If it makes you feel any better, I don't bid much anymore anyway, and when I do I lose to the guys bidding $300 + as they are desperate to win and have the money.

edit: I didn't claim "it's good for the system". I said that ebay deals with it with the earliest high bid gets priority, ie snipers lose. But it's still the best way to buy on ebay except for those willing to bid $300+ and be prepared to pay that much.

 

[MoreSaltThanPepper]

One thing I have noticed from time to time are items that have been sniped, being re-listed within days by the sniper.

In my mind, this might add some weight to the argument, but, again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCIp7eo4MvY

Snipers might actually help keep some of us sleeping in the house, instead of with Fido

 

[SiBurning]

the earlier bidder put down as much as they were prepared to pay, and so did the sniper...

The problem with ebay is that if you are an early bidder, you are at a disadvantage. N00b can keep probing until they beat you.
That puts "the fire and forget" early high bidder at a disadvantage, they may be away from their PC when the auction ends, and they may lose just over a few pennies.

These seem contradictory. If I bid $10.00 because it's the most I'm willing to spend, then I don't intend to spend $10.05. If someone else bids $10.05, how does it matter when it happens? If I put in a bid of $10.00 when I'm prepared to spend $10.10, I'm not bidding the most I'm willing to spend: I'm gaming the system.

When you game the ebay system, it's just like trading the stock market. The most important rule in both is to control your emotions. In the end, you're just buying stuff.

I understand that a low early bid would keep the snipers' bids low, too. Then I can snipe back at the last minute with my real bid. Too much work. I usually have better things to do than watch ebay at 4pm.

 

[bill mcdill]

Some auction sites (can't remember which) will not allow sniping by allowing the auction to continue for some time (15-60 mins?) AFTER the last bid. My bet is ebay won't commit to this because it will increase their server usage w/o increasing their bottom line. Nevertheless, this system seems more "honest" by making sniping a useless strategy

 

[pablo_h]

Because as I said, the early first bidders are put at a disadvantage, others can probe their bids and find the max that they have bid, get carried away with their emotions and keep plugging away until and just beat the early bid.
I think even though you disagree with me you have understood my angle.
It's better to set a snipe for $10, not worry about it at all, and if you win, you win. You haven't' got carried away and you haven't "laid your cards out" for anyone to take advantage of either.
An early low bid doesn't keep the snipers bids low, they really bid their max high bids becaue they don't know the max of the early bidder or other snipers.
And that is my point, snipers don't really effect the final auction price as everyone has bid their maximum. It's not a trick or a rip off for anyone, many people who want an item and are prepared to risk a few hundred on it still win even if they bid days before the end. It's just a strategy to not get into a bidding war and let emotion get in the way.

 

[mmack66]

Some auction sites (can't remember which) will not allow sniping by allowing the auction to continue for some time (15-60 mins?) AFTER the last bid. My bet is ebay won't commit to this because it will increase their server usage w/o increasing their bottom line. Nevertheless, this system seems more "honest" by making sniping a useless strategy

What prevents someone from sniping at the end of the bonus period? Does the auction keep extending as long as there is a bid? eBay isn't going to change just to accommodate a small minority of buyers that can't figure out the system. In contrast to some posts, I believe that their current auction system actually increases the final bid price of popular items.

 

[luvmysuper]

Because as I said, the early first bidders are put at a disadvantage, others can probe their bids and find the max that they have bid, get carried away with their emotions and keep plugging away until and just beat the early bid.
I think even though you disagree with me you have understood my angle.
It's better to set a snipe for $10, not worry about it at all, and if you win, you win. You haven't' got carried away and you haven't "laid your cards out" for anyone to take advantage of either.
An early low bid doesn't keep the snipers bids low, they really bid their max high bids becaue they don't know the max of the early bidder or other snipers.
And that is my point, snipers don't really effect the final auction price as everyone has bid their maximum. It's not a trick or a rip off for anyone, many people who want an item and are prepared to risk a few hundred on it still win even if they bid days before the end. It's just a strategy to not get into a bidding war and let emotion get in the way.

If everyone sniped, it would basically be a sealed auction, and the end time would just be the submission period. Highest bidder would win.
The fact that they don't do this lends credence to the fact that some people get caught up in emotion and bid more than they should or even more than it's worth.

 

[SiBurning]

Because as I said, the early first bidders are put at a disadvantage, others can probe their bids and find the max that they have bid, get carried away with their emotions and keep plugging away until and just beat the early bid.
I think even though you disagree with me you have understood my angle.
It's better to set a snipe for $10, not worry about it at all, and if you win, you win. You haven't' got carried away and you haven't "laid your cards out" for anyone to take advantage of either.
An early low bid doesn't keep the snipers bids low, they really bid their max high bids becaue they don't know the max of the early bidder or other snipers.
And that is my point, snipers don't really effect the final auction price as everyone has bid their maximum. It's not a trick or a rip off for anyone, many people who want an item and are prepared to risk a few hundred on it still win even if they bid days before the end. It's just a strategy to not get into a bidding war and let emotion get in the way.

I don't know about disagree. There's no one true way. I had a friend who spent months shopping around to save $40 on a $400 bicycle. Too much work for me. What works for one person doesn't necessarily work for others.

Now my ebay experience is mostly with vintage electrical test equipment, where there are some very hot items that are always way more expensive than I'd pay, other things noone bids on, and a lot of stuff in between. There's a few "buy it now or best offer" items I'm considering that have been relisted for months, one with a single offer that was rejected back in December. For me, it depends. There are certain obscure or second tier or unknown things I don't bid on early. Otherwise, it depends on how much I want the thing, and how often they come up for sale. I don't know if my experience is applicable to others.

 

[Fairway Ray]

Ah, the internet. Where anonymity rules. Where people can call others "noobs" so they don't have to think that they are talking about another human being. People bidding one Ebay are people not noobs. I don't snipe because I'm not about to waste my time looking at ebay or installing a program to do it for me. If I am looking for something on the bay and find it, I set my max and forget about it. It does not matter if its 3 minutes till the end of the auction or 6 days. Its not a game for me. If I get the item, fine. If not, there will be others down the road. If you want an item for personal use, fine snipe away. If you sniping for profit, so be it. Just don't come looking for sympathy from me.
Call me a noob if you want to feel superior. I don't think you would do it to my face.

 

[MoreSaltThanPepper]

Call me a noob if you want to feel superior. I don't think you would do it to my face.

I might but then I would be slagging another wetshaver and that would never do.

I think, by a totally imprecise post read, that most of us don't regard EBay as anything really important. You said it is not a game to you and I feel the same. It is very obvious that it is a game, a rush, if you will, to a number of people, who like to feel that they've "beaten" someone else. What do you think?

Regards,
-John

 

[luvmysuper]

Ah, the internet. Where anonymity rules. Where people can call others "noobs" so they don't have to think that they are talking about another human being. People bidding one Ebay are people not noobs. I don't snipe because I'm not about to waste my time looking at ebay or installing a program to do it for me. If I am looking for something on the bay and find it, I set my max and forget about it. It does not matter if its 3 minutes till the end of the auction or 6 days. Its not a game for me. If I get the item, fine. If not, there will be others down the road. If you want an item for personal use, fine snipe away. If you sniping for profit, so be it. Just don't come looking for sympathy from me.
Call me a noob if you want to feel superior. I don't think you would do it to my face.

I don't think anyone was specifically trying to target you, sometimes folks just use the term noob loosely to reference someone who doesn't do something on a regular or professional basis.
I'm sure no one meant any offense, myself included if I did so.

 

[Fairway Ray]

I might but then I would be slagging another wetshaver and that would never do.

I think, by a totally imprecise post read, that most of us don't regard EBay as anything really important. You said it is not a game to you and I feel the same. It is very obvious that it is a game, a rush, if you will, to a number of people, who like to feel that they've "beaten" someone else. What do you think?

Regards,
-John

I agree and having nothing against my friends here. I would like to think that if I met anyone here face to face and we disagreed on something, we could discuss it as two reasonable gentlemen and not resort to belittling each other as often times does happen on the internet.

Its a big world which is "shrinking" due to the internet. We here who discuss wet shaving are from all around the globe and I think that is great. It shows that people of different origins are really just people and we can share the same interests. As such, are due the same respect that we give the people we meet day to day.

Ray

 

[MoreSaltThanPepper]

I would like to think that if I met anyone here face to face and we disagreed on something, we could discuss it as two reasonable gentlemen over a pint and not resort to belittling each other as often times does happen on the internet.

There, fixed that for you

Its a big world which is "shrinking" due to the internet. We here who discuss wet shaving are from all around the globe and I think that is great. It shows that people of different origins are really just people and we can share the same interests. As such, are due the same respect that we give the people we meet day to day.

Ray

Well, if your world is anything like mine, people in here are now, sadly, much more polite than those we meet on the sidewalk, day to day.

- John

 

[Fairway Ray]

I don't think anyone was specifically trying to target you, sometimes folks just use the term noob loosely to reference someone who doesn't do something on a regular or professional basis.
I'm sure no one meant any offense, myself included if I did so.

No offense taken. I do know what the term "noob" means and take no offense to it normally. Its the context that it was used in referring to people who are more casual in their bidding habits than hard core bidders. Someone who uses Ebay as competitive game just has to realize that not all people on the bay really care that much about the whole experience.


Ray

 

[m0isty]

If everyone who used ebay simply bid their maximum there would be no need for sniping at all. As has been said, so many people see it as a competition and get caught up in the moment much the same as they would in a casino. This is encouraged by ebay ("you have been outbid...HURRY!!" "you have WON!!" etc.) as the higher the price items sell for, the more profit ebay makes. We've all heard stories of people who have entire rooms full of junk because they have become addicted to bidding...

People who use ebay for the adrenaline rush or whatever are the ones who are driving prices on some things to ridiculous levels. They are happy to pay above retail prices just as long as they win, just as fruit machine addicts feed that flashing box until it pays out only to put it all back in again. Is this fair on the rest of us? Fantastic for ebay or the seller, both rubbing their hands and laughing at the "winner" who bid far more than the item was worth, but just hurts people who want to buy things at sensible prices.

I just lost an auction for a straight that I wanted, even though I sniped. I lost to another sniper simply because he was prepared to pay more than me.
He didn't steal anything from me, ebay, the seller or any other bidder! He would have won whether he bid at the first second or the last.