Dressing down Finishing stones

[Timeclo]

Question/Discussion on dressing down Finishing stones.

How much does dressing down a finishing stone affect the edge?

So far, I've only used my Atoma 600 to lap down my finishing stones and that's worked well. However, I've been testing a Black slate and a Cnat and they have been degrading the edge every time. I'm wondering if dressing down these stones to higher grit (1500 - 2000) will help achieve a finer edge. I've heard that dressing the stone anywhere from 400-600 will work fine.

Do you dress your finishing stones? I know people dress Arks to two different types sometimes as they retain that surface state pretty well.

 

[Wid]

For most I stop at 600 sic. For a coti all I use is a worn DMT 325.

 

[ables]

500 grit SiC powder is the very best finishing material Ive found. Great for translucent Arkansas stones, slates, barber hones, jnats, ect. 1/2 a tsp and a couple minutes is all that's needed and the stone surface will feel so good (assuming the stone is flat and not scratched up)

 

[Frank Shaves]

I use 240-grit wet/dry for my hard Arks. I tried 1200, 800, 600 and 400, and prefer the 240.

 

[rbscebu]

I can only speak for a Cnat (Adaee #12000). One side I use with a slurry developed with a 600 diamond plate. The other side (my finishing side) I originally lapped with 600 W&D then just allowed that surface to burnish with use. On the burnished side I just hone with water and finished with lather.

I know that every natural is different and maybe I was just lucky with my Cnat but that Cnat is giving me finished edges that are getting close to diamond pasted balsa results. This is particularly so with my harder stainless steel SRs. My carbon steel SRs are better off a coticule rather than the Cnat.

 

[cotedupy]

I was just talking about with @Wid about something which I (and he) always do after lapping a razor stone and before use, which is lightly lapping / dressing the surface for about 10s with another stone of a similar type.

The abrasives we use use to lap stones (diamond, SiC, AlOx) are a lot harder than silica, and really cut up the abrasive in natural stones leaving a very aggressive cutting surface. Rubbing two stones together will knock and round out some of that - basically lightly burnishing them.

For most natural stones this is at least as, if not more, important than the grit level used to finish the surface ime.

 

[cotedupy]

And of course - if using for knives I don’t do that, cos you want an aggressive surface.

Razor stones by contrast need to be either quite slow or exceptionally fine. It’s why synethic razor finishing or diamond stropping is done at mega-high grits, because they’re a lot faster and more abrasive than equivalent level natural stones.

 

[lightfoot]

As I continue to get synthetic finishing dialed in it’s getting harder for me to sense any improvement from Arkansas stones in particular. But I suspect a smoothing effect may still be happening.

 

[silverlifter]

I suspect I have doing this horribly, wrong, but posting about it may draw out corrective information, so I'll take the hit

I have a slate (Black Shadow) that I lapped flat with an 800 diamond plate. This flattened the stone, but also left noticeable scratches in it. So, I took some of my other, higher grit stones to it: a SG 2k followed by a 5K. This removed all of the scratches. It also improved the edges I was getting.

 

[cotedupy]

I suspect I have doing this horribly, wrong, but posting about it may draw out corrective information, so I'll take the hit

I have a slate (Black Shadow) that I lapped flat with an 800 diamond plate. This flattened the stone, but also left noticeable scratches in it. So, I took some of my other, higher grit stones to it: a SG 2k followed by a 5K. This removed all of the scratches. It also improved the edges I was getting.

Nah... perfectly valid method!

Unless they're extremely worn, even high grit diamond plates will scratch the surface of finishing stones. Using high grit synths like you did, or even better - another natural stone, is better for final surface prep.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Nah... perfectly valid method!

Unless they're extremely worn, even high grit diamond plates will scratch the surface of finishing stones. Using high grit synths like you did, or even better - another natural stone, is better for final surface prep.

I usually dress my stones with w/d but you got me thinking. I have a piece of BBW that doesn't get much love, would that be good for surface conditioning another stone?

 

[cotedupy]

I usually dress my stones with w/d but you got me thinking. I have a piece of BBW that doesn't get much love, would that be good for surface conditioning another stone?

Very good indeed I imagine.

As long as you’re ok with using THE BEST WHETSTONE IN THE WORLD in an effort to try to improve others.

 

[Herrenberg]

Very good indeed I imagine.

As long as you’re ok with using THE BEST WHETSTONE IN THE WORLD in an effort to try to improve others.

Starting to feel kind of bad about ignoring that attractive blue decorative base that holds up my coticules.

 

[cotedupy]

Starting to feel kind of bad about ignoring that attractive blue decorative base that holds up my coticules.

There's very little Belgian Blue can't do in fact; will hone a razor, dress and improve other stones, excellent for knife sharpening, astonishing for polishing, prevents its weakling cousin the yellow coticule from snapping in half at the drop of a hat...

Wouldn't surprise me for a moment if it could turn base metals into gold.

 

[Steve56]

Here’s how I do it.

- For the finest razor finishers; lap the stone flat. For JNats and stones of similar hardness, I do this in maintenance mode with a Shapton DGLP or an Atoma 400. For major correcting, that’s another thread.
- Next, a super mellow 600 Atoma that finishes finer (no scratches unless you get out magnification)
- Put a knife or cleaver on it. I have the sharpest cleaver in the world ….
- Raise a slurry with a good tomo and put a junk wedge with a wide spine and bevel on it, a time or two, to establish a razor wear pattern.

Anything beyond the Atoma 600 and minor burnishing with steel is a little overkill. Mikawa naguras are also good to condition (deglaze or de-swarf) a surface, as is a King 1k.

 

[Empire straights]

I use 240-grit wet/dry for my hard Arks. I tried 1200, 800, 600 and 400, and prefer the 240.

100%. I use a cheap, Chinese, worn diamond #220 to get final flat, then use the worn 1k side for a quick buff or a hard coticule/bbw for anything that needs to be smoothed or conditioned. Sometimes a fine India for softer stones(like washitas or soft arks).

 

[Empire straights]

Starting to feel kind of bad about ignoring that attractive blue decorative base that holds up my coticules.

Ehhh..... to be fair *nobody really* likes them aside from Oli and me, but they are as variable as coticules and have a many applications. My personal theory is that since bbws are less aggressive than coticules and have a more shallow scratch pattern... with the right touch/ honing medium a fine one will get far finer than the "equivalent"(doesn't exist in natural stone, even of the same type) of yellow coticule. At minimum, I would assert, this has been my experience with my *VINTAGE* coticules. They have replaced the Washita as my favorite knife stone and that's a damn tall order.

 

[duke762]

I've seen quite a few vintage BBW backsides heavily dished, most likely used on things other than razors in their day.

They have replaced the Washita as my favorite knife stone and that's a damn tall order.

I find this interesting. Doyou use a progression of stones to do bevel set and repair, refine, and then end up on the Coticule? All my Coti's and slurry stones just sit there looking at me. I gave up using them on razors. Maybe I should revisit/repurpose them.

 

[cotedupy]

*nobody really* likes them aside from Oli and me,

Haha... have a look on KKF, everybody loves 'em. I should be on commission from AC quite frankly!

Though I personally find very little variation in comparison to yellow coticule. The minutiae of polishing can show up very small differences between stones, and naturally bonded BBW does tend to be a little faster. But in the grand scheme of things; compared to most other types of natural stone I've always found them very consistent, and the SD very narrow.

It's why I don't think we'll ever convince @David to see the light.

 

[David]

It's why I don't think we'll ever convince @David to see the light.

Exactly that. I have give or take 100 cotis, which means I have give or take 100 BBW’s. I’m not necessarily saying bbw is a bad hone, but when I have the choice of yellow or blue I’m reaching for the yellow 10 times out of 10. If I had 3 and was trying to save my precious yellow coticule then I would absolutely use the BBW for any application that I could. I’ve been at this for quite a while and have spent a lot of time messing around with BBW. My conclusion has always been it’s a good stone, but outclassed by its yellow cousin. Most of my comments about BBW are simply me taking a poke at Oli.