Don't be caught OFF GUARD (some DE Razor terminology stuff)

[Cal]

I always like it when technical terminology is simple and makes sense. Just because lots of people call something by the same name doesn't mean it's good or correct, usually it's just what someone told them it was called... so regardless of whether it makes sense or not, that's what they call it.

A recent terminology addition... THE CLOSED COMB
At first I didn't like it one bit, but now I'm coming round to thinking it's a good un'.

So I propose that we now have THREE basic guard types on our razors' baseplates (left to right as below):

OC = Open Comb, CC = Closed Comb, SB = Straight/Solid/Safety Bar

OC
Like in a standard hair comb, the teeth are usually long and deep set. Waste whiskers and lather runs out between the teeth. Example shown is a Fatip Open Comb Slant.

CC
The teeth on a Closed Comb are set directly onto, and are part of, the Safety Bar. There normally is/are drainage hole/holes between the Safety Bar and the rest of the baseplate. Example shown is a Mühle R41.

SB
The standard Safety Bar is straight and usually has drainage holes behind it. It may have minor serrations (e.g. Gillette Tech). Some razors have quite large serrations on the Safety Bar, so depending on their depth they could be considered an SB/CC hybrid. Example of SB guarded razor is a RazoRock Game Changer.


THREE PIECE RAZOR (+ blade)

Generically speaking "caps" go on top. I hate the expression "top cap." And anyway, have you got your "foot shoes" on now?

---

I always find it reassuring when a label is easily understood by all. That said, I do understand that everyone is free to call anything what they want to call it. Vive la différence!

What do YOU think?

 

[EclipseRedRing]

I have never used the term 'Safety Bar', I have only ever used Open Comb or Closed Comb with the latter being what you term a Safety Bar. What you call a Closed Comb I would refer to as a hybrid between Open and Closed Comb. Sounds like I have been getting it wrong, not for the first time

 

[the maui life]

I like the 'generically speaking' term used by hobbyist that call all Gem/ER SE chromium razors Streamline.

 

[jmudrick]

I always like it when technical terminology is simple and makes sense. Just because lots of people call something by the same name doesn't mean it's good or correct, usually it's just what someone told them it was called... so regardless of whether it makes sense or not, that's what they call it.

A recent terminology addition... THE CLOSED COMB
At first I didn't like it one bit, but now I'm coming round to thinking it's a good un'.

So I propose that we now have THREE basic guard types on our razors' baseplates (left to right as below):
View attachment 1104754
OC = Open Comb, CC = Closed Comb, SB = Straight/Solid/Safety Bar

OC
Like in a standard hair comb, the teeth are usually long and deep set. Waste whiskers and lather runs out between the teeth. Example shown is a Fatip Open Comb Slant.

CC
The teeth on a Closed Comb are set directly onto, and are part of, the Safety Bar. There normally is/are drainage hole/holes between the Safety Bar and the rest of the baseplate. Example shown is a Mühle R41.

SB
The standard Safety Bar is straight and usually has drainage holes behind it. It may have minor serrations (e.g. Gillette Tech). Some razors have quite large serrations on the Safety Bar, so depending on their depth they could be considered an SB/CC hybrid. Example of SB guarded razor is a RazoRock Game Changer.


THREE PIECE RAZOR (+ blade)

View attachment 1104781

Generically speaking "caps" go on top. I hate the expression "top cap." And anyway, have you got your "foot shoes" on now?

---

I always find it reassuring when a label is easily understood by all. That said, I do understand that everyone is free to call anything what they want to call it. Vive la différence!

What do YOU think?

Aren't plates always basey? Glad R41 is CC, that Muhle calls it open is ridiculous.

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[Esox]

What do YOU think?

I'd tend to agree with your terms because they make sense but I still think of the R41 as being a hybrid. Old habits.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Question, Cal. Can you think of another "Closed Comb" besides the R41?

Most of the time the R41 is described as an open comb which it most clearly is not. It's also not a straight bar.

I like your nomenclature. I'm confused enough without having to always figure out which of the many systems and conventions are being used whenever anyone says anything.

Just saying.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[jmudrick]

View attachment 1104806


Question, Cal. Can you think of another "Closed Comb" besides the R41?

Most of the time the R41 is described as an open comb which it most clearly is not. It's also not a straight bar.


View attachment 1104808


I like your nomenclature. I'm confused enough without having to always figure out which of the many systems and conventions are being used whenever anyone says anything.

Just saying.

Happy shaves,

Jim

To start with, the Conrad, Barbasol, Coopers of the 30s

Couple more.

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[Seveneighth]

What do YOU think?

I'm on board.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Thanks for the other CC razors. Cool.

 

[Cal]

Question, Cal. Can you think of another "Closed Comb" besides the R41?

The one that came to mind immediately was my vintage bakelite Knockout.

The waste runs underneath the blade (between it and the baseplate) all the way to the other side, hence no slots. But you can see by looking at it that is's definitely neither Open Comb nor Safety Bar.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

The one that came to mind immediately was my vintage bakelite Knockout.
View attachment 1104817 View attachment 1104818
The waste runs underneath the blade (between it and the baseplate) all the way to the other side, hence no slots. But you can see by looking at it that is's definitely neither Open Comb nor Safety Bar.

Thanks, Cal.

 

[jmudrick]

The one that came to mind immediately was my vintage bakelite Knockout.
View attachment 1104817 View attachment 1104818
The waste runs underneath the blade (between it and the baseplate) all the way to the other side, hence no slots. But you can see by looking at it that is's definitely neither Open Comb nor Safety Bar.

I was just going to post my Knockout. Once you expand to UK and European razors there are lots of CC examples.

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[EclipseRedRing]

My Henckels Henso is a CC razor by the definition above:

 

[Flintstone65]

I'm VERY glad to see this. Believe it or not, I've been giving this A LOT of thought....we are only 4 to 5'ish months from OCtober (Open Comb October, for the uninitiated), and I've been itching to have a tangible definition of an Open Comb. The Muhle ALWAYS comes up as a question mark. So please don't take my attempt to clarify and thus "pull at threads" as being a jerk....I'm just really, REALLY trying to nail this down.

So here's some examples of SE razors (sorry, I know it's a DE thread, but I think this discussion should bridge both DE and SE razors):

Note the Christy teeth are pointed up. Now admittedly, this razor as an SE has a more shallow (handle pointed to the wall angle, but the teeth are set into a bar, even though there is decent spacing and "air space" between the teeth -- OC or CC?

How about the Enders Speed Shaver (and Speed Razors)? They have "shallowly set teeth", but again, the teeth are set into the base plate and point up?

OC or CC?

I will take a guess and say that under the definition you've laid out, these would be considered CC -- but I'd like confirmation. The reason, I'm assuming, is that if the teeth are like those in the bottom of our mouth (stuck in our gums and pointing up), versus like those in the top of our mouths (stuck in our gums, but pointing down). Or do you think the difference lies in the relative spacing -- that is, there is enough defined space between the teeth (regardless of orientation) that the lather can pass through?

Now here are 2 examples of what I think of as a "closed comb" -- meaning that if the ends of the teeth were "open" rather than enclosed, then they would be an open comb:

They are obviously a couple of lather catchers, but the "comb" description is relevant, I think.

I must reiterate, I'm not trying to be a jerk (it just comes naturally ) -- but rather, I think this is a helpful topic for both newbies and veterans alike, and I know that I've had a hard time putting a decent definition / bright-line in place when I'm talking about the various (not so straight-forward) open combs.

Thanks!

 

[Cal]

I'm talking about the various (not so straight-forward) open combs.

I'm no SE aficionado by any stretch of the imagination, Fred... but simply by looking at them I'd say the top two are OC and the bottom two CC.

Why not start a thread in the Single Edged Razors sub-forum?

 

[kingfisher]

Problem is that the vast majority of people, when they hear the term 'closed comb,' are actually thinking about razors with safety bars (for which, in my opinion, the term closed comb never made any sense).

But it is hard to turn an aircraft carrier around. We can say whatever we want in this thread, but people are still not going to use the word the way you want to use it. I agree that it makes some sense to think of the R41 and other razors of similar design as closed comb, but the horse has long ago left the barn.

 

[Flintstone65]

I'm no SE aficionado by any stretch of the imagination, Fred... but simply by looking at them I'd say the top two are OC and the bottom two CC.

Why not start a thread in the Single Edged Razors sub-forum?

Will do -- I may be naive, but I suspect it will be an easier discussion on the SE side (famous last words), but I can't think of a "controversial" *ahem* R41 OC/CC/Hybrid Comb razor that will get the fur to fly....but we shall see. I feel like the benefit of a definition is how descriptive it is....I like yours, but it may need to be "tightened"/"clarified" a bit for the SE razors....great place to start though! Thanks for getting the ball rolling....I'll be over in the SE area catching as many "slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" as possible, while I take up "arms against a sea of trouble". Good luck over here.

 

[bdehne]

How about a Fatip Testina Gentle? CC?

 

[Cal]

How about a Fatip Testina Gentile? CC?

Definitely.

 

[Invicta]

So I propose that we now have THREE basic guard types on our razors' baseplates

I did not realise there were so many closed combs around.
Now how do we get everyone to adopt the three terms correctly?