Does this make sense to you?

[mbrossar]

Okay, so I am admitedly a rank ameture when it comes to honing, but I'm working on it. Over the past week, I've been trying to set a bevel on my coti. Following Bart's instructions on coticule.be, I dulled the edge with a lite run on a bottle, generated a thick slurry and completed 30 half strokes (on each side) and tested on my arm. It kind of shaved, but not really, so I took another 30 half strokes on each side. This time, it didn't shave at all. After repeating this cycle around 5 times with no arm shave results, I tried a TNT. Like I said, I'm a newb here, so I may not be evaluating this test appropriately, but it seemed to be sticking pretty good (aka starting to slice my nail). Arm shave? No joy.

In my frustration, I dulled the blade and started over. 30 half laps and I was shaving arm hair reasonably well. So, I continued with the Unicot (newb) method. When I'm done, I'm able to achieve what Bart describes as a HHT-2. Not bad for a newb, IMO. What I don't get is the failure to shave arm hair while apparently passing a good TNT. Sure, it could be interpretive error on my part, but...

Any thoughts?

 

[Alacrity59]

I have just subscribed to your thread. I'm interested in what advice you will get. 30 strokes and 30 half stokes does not seem that many to me.

 

[holli4pirating]

It could be the TNT, or maybe it's the way in which you are shaving arm hair or maybe it's your arm hair. Or maybe you dulled the razor doing TNT.

All tests that go by feel (TNT, TPT) or tests where you cut things (arm hair, HHT, shave test) need to be learned and calibrated. You need to know for sure what a good bevel feels like on your nail or thumb pad before you can really use TNT or TPT. You need to know how a set bevel off a 1k will shave your arm hair before you can use an arm hair test to assess the bevel. Same goes for each test, really - you have to know exactly what you are looking for before the test will tell you anything.

 

[domino]

What is a TPT test?

 

[holli4pirating]

TPT is thumb pad test. It can be done at all stages of honing, if you know what you are looking for, and different people do it different ways. I only use it when setting the bevel. I take my dry thumb and gently touch the edge of the razor such that the edge is lined up with my finger (as I look down, the toe of the razor is past my finder nail). I then lightly try to slide my finger along the edge of the blade from heal to toe. DO NOT ACTUALLY SLIDE YOUR FINGER ALONG THE EDGE OF YOUR BLADE. When I feel a resistance to movement, I know my bevel is set. It's a sticky sort of feel, like a sharp pocket knife.

I think the best way to learn what you are looking for is to sit down with someone who knows how to hone and feel the blade's edge and see how it cuts at various stages. Whenever I'm honing with new guys, I'll pass around the razor after each hone so they can see what I'm aiming for at each level.

 

[domino]

That is one reason that I am sorry I missed the Brooklyn meet. I would have liked to have met with you guys and get some hands on experience.

 

[holli4pirating]

Oh, are you on SRP? I didn't recognize your nick.

 

[domino]

Oh, are you on SRP? I didn't recognize your nick.

Yes..

 

[holli4pirating]

Ah, now I see. I'm really bad with names. Well, fingers crossed for Ft Lee...

 

[domino]

I am watching that post also for a date..

 

[chess1]

All tests out there to guide people. Ultimate test is shave test.
Now about Barts method
What Bart mean is approximately numbers.
It could be 30 x 30 or 200x200 so much variations.
he means 30x30 to be in safe side.
number of strokes depends too many factors. honers experience, stone quality, blade quality and so on.
Now i think you at first should make sure edge of the blade makes contact with the stone. you can hone 24 hours without any result if there is no contact with the stone.
try to Marker test and see what happens.
Then i would suggest change your stone. use lower grit stones to set the bevel.
1k etc move up to 8 k then you can move to coticule.
hope this helps.

 

[Bart]

Your slurry is too thick. On some Coticules, dense slurry is no problem, but on many of them, the keenness will be limited by the slurry at a level that barely shaves arm hair. At the same time, that means that the second part of the procedure (when the tape is on) needs to make a big leap in keenness. It's most likely too big a leap to get the best possible edge on the razor you honed.

New Coticule users often think that "the denser the slurry, the faster the stone will remove steel". This is NOT true. There's a point where making the slurry thicker will absolutely be counterproductive. The tip of the edge is abraded more than the bevel faces. It's like pushing your edge through mud. As a rule of thumb, anything thicker than the consistency of milk, is going to be too thick.

As soon as the edge starts to show any responsiveness, on whatever test you prefer, it's always best to add about 30 laps on thin slurry. The razor must shave arm hair well (along the entire edge) before you should proceed to the taped steps of the Unicot method.

Right now, you have 2 options. You could start all over.
Or you can attach 2 layers of tape (instead of the regular one) and repeat the taped steps (20 laps on very thin slurry, followed by 50 on just water). This will open an second window to the edge refinement you're after.

I have yet to hone a single razor with that method that didn't pop hanging hairs when performed correctly. It's not even all that critical to the hairs used, as long as the hair was clean (freshly washed when harvested).

Kind regards,
Bart.

 

[domino]

Good info, thanks Bart. I don't have a stone yet, but very useful information when I do get one....