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Does brass = longevity

I was wondering what the take is on this. Most inexpensive razor have brass plated handles or stainless handles, with Zamak heads. Does the head being brass offer any benefit, or is the zamak head a real non issue.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
When brass (a copper/zinc alloy) is in contact with stainless steel (a steel alloy containing chromium) the chromium (cathode) reacts electrolytically (electrolysis) with the zinc (the anode) and converts the brass into "pouress" copper with almost no strength. This is exasperated in the presence of an electrolyte such as water.

One way around this little problem is to only use plain steel blades.
 
When brass (a copper/zinc alloy) is in contact with stainless steel (a steel alloy containing chromium) the chromium (cathode) reacts electrolytically (electrolysis) with the zinc (the anode) and converts the brass into "pouress" copper with almost no strength. This is exasperated in the presence of an electrolyte such as water.

One way around this little problem is to only use plain steel blades.
Wow....... ok.. so would you feel using this logic zamak would be a better option?
 

Rosseforp

I think this fits, Gents
I was wondering what the take is on this. Most inexpensive razor have brass plated handles or stainless handles, with Zamak heads. Does the head being brass offer any benefit, or is the zamak head a real non issue.
Oh boy, you are opening up a real can of worms here.

I will attempt to explain in layman's terms. My background is machining/welding, and I read material certification reports as part of my job. I will try and leave the technical terms out.

Brass is more resistant to corrosion than Zamak, that is a fact.
Zamac must be plated, as once any corrosion starts, that is the beginning of the end. The corosion cannot be stopped.

Brass will develop a patina that will prevent corrosion, so plating is not necessary.

There are a great many inexpensive razors made from Zamak that are decades old. A Gillette Tech from the 1960's is a perfect example of a vintage razor with a cap made from Zamak.

Another benefit of Brass is the ability to withstand a fall without irreparable damage. Zamak breaks much easier.

A great example of an all Brass razor compared to a Zamak razor would be the Fatip Piccolo which is all Brass, and a Razorock SLOC which is Zamak and both razors cost around $20.00
I have both, and my experience is the Piccolo shaves smoother than the SLOC. Is it because one is Brass, and the other is Zamak, I cannot say.
 
Oh boy, you are opening up a real can of worms here.

I will attempt to explain in layman's terms. My background is machining/welding, and I read material certification reports as part of my job. I will try and leave the technical terms out.

Brass is more resistant to corrosion than Zamak, that is a fact.
Zamac must be plated, as once any corrosion starts, that is the beginning of the end. The corosion cannot be stopped.

Brass will develop a patina that will prevent corrosion, so plating is not necessary.

There are a great many inexpensive razors made from Zamak that are decades old. A Gillette Tech from the 1960's is a perfect example of a vintage razor with a cap made from Zamak.

Another benefit of Brass is the ability to withstand a fall without irreparable damage. Zamak breaks much easier.

A great example of an all Brass razor compared to a Zamak razor would be the Fatip Piccolo which is all Brass, and a Razorock SLOC which is Zamak and both razors cost around $20.00
I have both, and my experience is the Piccolo shaves smoother than the SLOC. Is it because one is Brass, and the other is Zamak, I cannot say.
Good information. I did not know the old techs were zamak. Very interesting. I have both the sloc and the piccolo and my experience is probably opposite. But that could be the handle of the piccolo as I have bigger hands and it could be a pressure issue. Love the sloc!
 
Good information. I did not know the old techs were zamak. Very interesting...
The earlier model Gillette Techs were all-brass. The later ones have a mix of materials such as brass, aluminum, zamak and plastic. Zamak was used for the cap only. You can tell by the shape; it is thicker and more rounded.

 
Fendrihan offers an all brass razor for less than $30 US. One forum member tried it and thought it was too heavy. I had considered it, but have since made my own aluminum razor with a hand file and it works quite well. The screw is stainless steel. The handle I borrowed from another razor is also Stainless steel. I have not noticed any electrolysis between the aluminum and the stainless steel, yet. I thought I would not like an aluminum razor, but it is just fine. Razorock’s Baby Smooth is made from aluminum, but does not have a stainless steel screw.
 
There are a lot of vintage gillette from the end of WW2 onwards surviving today. So brass is better.

I don't those kind of material that EJ, merkur, muhle are using today could last that long.
 
When brass (a copper/zinc alloy) is in contact with stainless steel (a steel alloy containing chromium) the chromium (cathode) reacts electrolytically (electrolysis) with the zinc (the anode) and converts the brass into "pouress" copper with almost no strength. This is exasperated in the presence of an electrolyte such as water.

One way around this little problem is to only use plain steel blades.
So we shouldn't be using SS heads with brass handles and vice versa ?
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
So we shouldn't be using SS heads with brass handles and vice versa ?
Yes. You will find that the thread in the handle will deteriorate to porous copper over time.

I am speaking here as metallurgical engineer, not as someone who has experienced brass head failure in a DE razor.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
.... I have not noticed any electrolysis between the aluminum and the stainless steel, yet. ....
Aluminum and SS is no where near as incompatible as brass and SS, although they are still somewhat incompatible. If you must mix aluminum with another metal, monel metal is much better.
 
Tech speak aside, just looking at the installed base, there are brass razors that are over 100 years old soldering on. My daily shave is an 86 year old Arisrocrat that is holding up well. Given the known issues with Zamak and modern razor parts dissolving, there appears to be a difference.
 
When brass (a copper/zinc alloy) is in contact with stainless steel (a steel alloy containing chromium) the chromium (cathode) reacts electrolytically (electrolysis) with the zinc (the anode) and converts the brass into "pouress" copper with almost no strength. This is exasperated in the presence of an electrolyte such as water.

One way around this little problem is to only use plain steel blades.
There are brass razors that are over a hundred years old & have stood the test of time.
They are still being used today, & with stainless steel blades.
Perhaps there are factors other than the theoretical ones that are at play here.
Over the years working with stainless steel I have learned not to ignore evidence in favour of theory.
There are processes I have seen done that as per my metallurgical training cannot be done, yet I have seen them being done & have done them myself.
 
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There are many grades of Zamak to be found - the kind used to make Gillette Techs that is somewhat corrosion-resistant (but not sturdy, I had 3 drop and break, myself), and the kind used to make WWII-era German razors that are not corrosion-resistant at all, to pick out 2. Today's examples are EJs which their customer service routinely replaces top caps for corroded screws at 5 years, or so.

Brass and SS will not corrode in your lifetime (or the next 3!), with brass being easier to machine.

It all depends on how long you want your razor...
 
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Aluminum and SS is no where near as incompatible as brass and SS, although they are still somewhat incompatible. If you must mix aluminum with another metal, monel metal is much better.
What about brass head with brass handle and stainless steel blade?
 

Rosseforp

I think this fits, Gents
But that could be the handle of the piccolo as I have bigger hands and it could be a pressure issue. Love the sloc!
I do have small hands, but all of my vintage Gillette razors have handles much the same size as the Piccolo. The Fatip Grande uses the same head but has a larger handle. The Schöne is made by Fatip and also has a larger handle. All can be purchased new for $22.00 or less.
I have found my SLOC prefers a handle with some heft.
Aluminum and SS is no where near as incompatible as brass and SS, although they are still somewhat incompatible. If you must mix aluminum with another metal, monel metal is much better.
Aluminum will corrode unless anodized or plated.

There are many grades of Stainless Steel that are very compatible with Brass. A list can be found in the Machinist's Handbook.

Not all grades of Stainless Steel are corrosion resistant, some more than others.
The higher the Nickle content(there I go with tech speak) the higher the corrosion resistance. As the Nickle content goes up, so does the cost.
Monel is very high in Nickle content. While monel metal is a very corrosion resistant material, it is expensive and difficult to machine.
The most common use of Monel metal is the marine industry, such as propeller shafts on ships.

Consider that most Straight Razors are made from High Carbon Steel with very little corrosion resistance, and there are a great many still in use today that are 100 years old. It is all in how well you take care of your equipment, how long it lasts.

If you truly want a Stainless Steel razor that will last you a lifetime, Italian Barber has some very nice reasonably priced, all Stainless Steel razors made from 316 SS.

316 SS is commonly known as a high grade steel that is used in the marine and medical industry.

It is also overkill for a razor, but this is a hobby. And I DO have a handle made from Monel metal!!!!!
 
I do have small hands, but all of my vintage Gillette razors have handles much the same size as the Piccolo. The Fatip Grande uses the same head but has a larger handle. The Schöne is made by Fatip and also has a larger handle. All can be purchased new for $22.00 or less.
I have found my SLOC prefers a handle with some heft.

Aluminum will corrode unless anodized or plated.

There are many grades of Stainless Steel that are very compatible with Brass. A list can be found in the Machinist's Handbook.

Not all grades of Stainless Steel are corrosion resistant, some more than others.
The higher the Nickle content(there I go with tech speak) the higher the corrosion resistance. As the Nickle content goes up, so does the cost.
Monel is very high in Nickle content. While monel metal is a very corrosion resistant material, it is expensive and difficult to machine.
The most common use of Monel metal is the marine industry, such as propeller shafts on ships.

Consider that most Straight Razors are made from High Carbon Steel with very little corrosion resistance, and there are a great many still in use today that are 100 years old. It is all in how well you take care of your equipment, how long it lasts.

If you truly want a Stainless Steel razor that will last you a lifetime, Italian Barber has some very nice reasonably priced, all Stainless Steel razors made from 316 SS.

316 SS is commonly known as a high grade steel that is used in the marine and medical industry.
Yeah I'm looking at the retro, I think it's with a try.

It is also overkill for a razor, but this is a hobby. And I DO have a handle made from Monel metal!!!!!
 
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