Does anyone not like the Coticule?
- Thread starter TstebinsB
- Start date
With me wanting to be a future Honemeister and being able to restore old razors from the dead, the more research I do the more I'm even leaning towards mastering the Coti! and forgetting the comercials and ads. It's oldschool for me!
Keep em sharp!
Keep em sharp!
The thing that worries me about all the coticule love around here lately is they are getting hyped like no other. Many are recommending newbies to get coticules as that is all they need.
Granted, I started on a coticule and that is pretty much all I use now after heavy experimenting on everything. I'll just say this though - there are an equal number of threads of people frustrated at the edges they are getting when starting out on a coticule.
The dilucot method is really not a beginner friendly honing technique, especially if you are brand new to honing. It is what I started on and took me probably 1 month of a lot of practice till I got serviceable edges off it.
Here I am 6+ months later through honing 1-2 razors a day and only in the past 4-6 weeks have I been able to get edges off my coticules that will rival edges I can obtain from my escher/thuri or Oozuku Asagi on a consistent basis everytime.
People need to have realistic expectations when dealing with these. Buy only 1 coticule and spend months getting to know it. Stop worrying about what vein it is (I've been able to get impressive edges from every vein I've used now - it is all about getting to know your stone).
I also haven't even come close to getting to know my Jnat and know that it can produce some of the finest edges I've ever used. Problem is I haven't spent enough time with it to nail that consistently. It is the same thing with a coticule - you just need to spend months getting to know how best to use it.
Have realistic expectations and practice, practice, practice...
Granted, I started on a coticule and that is pretty much all I use now after heavy experimenting on everything. I'll just say this though - there are an equal number of threads of people frustrated at the edges they are getting when starting out on a coticule.
The dilucot method is really not a beginner friendly honing technique, especially if you are brand new to honing. It is what I started on and took me probably 1 month of a lot of practice till I got serviceable edges off it.
Here I am 6+ months later through honing 1-2 razors a day and only in the past 4-6 weeks have I been able to get edges off my coticules that will rival edges I can obtain from my escher/thuri or Oozuku Asagi on a consistent basis everytime.
People need to have realistic expectations when dealing with these. Buy only 1 coticule and spend months getting to know it. Stop worrying about what vein it is (I've been able to get impressive edges from every vein I've used now - it is all about getting to know your stone).
I also haven't even come close to getting to know my Jnat and know that it can produce some of the finest edges I've ever used. Problem is I haven't spent enough time with it to nail that consistently. It is the same thing with a coticule - you just need to spend months getting to know how best to use it.
Have realistic expectations and practice, practice, practice...
I like the challenge of learning the coticule. It adds another exciting level, layer or dimension to the daily shaving ritual.
I think this has a lot to do with the wealth of knowledge available on Bart's coticule.be site and Jarrod selling individually photographed stones, some of which are evaluated, which can take some of the guesswork/luck/mystery out of a buying a coticule.
Big +1 from me.
I will add that out of all the different edges I've tried, when I finally tried a Coticule edge honed by someone who knew what they were doing, I knew I didn't need to look at anything else. It's the only edge I shave with now, but it did take a LOT of practice and perseverance.
The Unicot method, on the other hand, is very newbie-friendly and I've been teaching it here in Modena.
I started doing touchups on a c12k. But besides that I had no experience with honing. I'm not claiming I'm an expert, because I am FAARRRRRRR from it, but a newbie to honing can learn on a coticule alright.
One reason why I like a coticule is because I didn't have the money to buy a whole set of naniwas like I originally wanted. I needed a cheap(relatively) way of honing that didn't involve buying several hones.
+1
This is the what closed the deal for me. I sent one of my razors to be honed on a coticule and when it came back I loved the edge off of it. I personally liked it much better than the edge off of the c12k I had. The guy that I sent my razor to asked if I wanted him to finish it on an escher or JNAT but I knew I wouldn't have the money to buy one of those if I liked it so I chose the coticule. I am glad I did.
+1
If I am trying dilucot and just can't get a good edge, it only takes a couple of minutes to do the last few stages of unicot and I'm ready to go.
So I don't think that coticules are the most newbie friendly hone out there, especially using dilucot. But for somebody that wants/needs more functionality than just a barber hone or c12k, and can't afford a Naniwa 1, 3, 8, 12 or a Norton 220/1000 4k/8k and finisher then they are a viable option.
There are definitely days when I don't like the Coticule, but when I get the edge honed right on the Coti, it makes getting through those bad days worthwhile.
I don't necessarily think it's bad to recommend a Coticule as an only stone for someone new to honing, but that recommendation should include a warning that learning the stone well enough to get a comfortable edge takes several hours. The amount of time it takes to properly hone a razor from the bevel up was a shock to me when I first started honing.
I don't necessarily think it's bad to recommend a Coticule as an only stone for someone new to honing, but that recommendation should include a warning that learning the stone well enough to get a comfortable edge takes several hours. The amount of time it takes to properly hone a razor from the bevel up was a shock to me when I first started honing.
It took me a while to get into the coticules. I sold the first one I had because I didn't like it. I've now got two and I think that they are very good. I still have my Shapton Ceramic Pro stones though and I love the consistency that they provide. When you get it right on a coticule, it produces an edge that is hard to beat.
+1- that sweet spot is really hard to find and it does indeed take quite a while to learn, which can be frustrating. But, I do not know of another single stone with the versatility. I have been recommending to those that ask to get a stone for beveling, a coticule and a final finish stone when they start. And, each time they hone a razor to try and get to final finish on their coticule. But if they can't, jump to the finisher. In time, hopefully they will learn how to hit the sweet spot. I thought this approach may soften the learning curve and potential frustration.
There is not much to add. My first coticule got used once and never again as i could not get a sharp edge . That was may be 3 years ago. then bart came along and helped me every step of the way. They are frustrating thats a fact . When you hit the peak on the coticule the edges are very hard to beat. There also interesting stones as they all look differant and great to use .
There is no sweeter success than the kind that takes an effort. One can have a completely smooth and successful shave with a Gillette Fusion, but it will never be as satisfying as an equally smooth and successful shave with a straight razor. I believe the difference lies in the sense of achievement. The first thing one needs to accept of a straight razor, is that the possibility to fail miserably is present within the tool. Without that possibility, there would be no skill, no personal victory.
In the above paragraph, you can easily replace "straight razor" with "Coticule", and it would still be valid. I often encounter Coticule owners who like to avoid Unicot (the easy method with the layer of tape), because they want to be able to "use it without guiding wheels". It shows that they are not in it for the fastest, quickest way to get the job done. Which is, I believe, the thrusting force behind many a straight razor user.
Besides that, Coticules are low maintenance, relatively inexpensive, visually appealing, offering a tactile feedback while honing that is as mesmeric as helpful for the process, wide-range (fast on slurry - smooth on water), and embedded into tradition. What is there not to love?
Neither do I agree that Coticules are hyped. They are more documented today than they used to be. But "hyped" means to me that something is promoted to make the general audience believe it is more or better than it is. If I read the information about Coticules that can be found on this website, I don't see any false promises. I see an enthusiast little user community, that is eager to help out new owners tackling the learning curve connected to these whetstones.
Maurice Celis -owner of Ardennes Coticule- told me once: Coticules don't need ballyhooing, they can speak for themselves.
Kind regards,
Bart
In the above paragraph, you can easily replace "straight razor" with "Coticule", and it would still be valid. I often encounter Coticule owners who like to avoid Unicot (the easy method with the layer of tape), because they want to be able to "use it without guiding wheels". It shows that they are not in it for the fastest, quickest way to get the job done. Which is, I believe, the thrusting force behind many a straight razor user.
Besides that, Coticules are low maintenance, relatively inexpensive, visually appealing, offering a tactile feedback while honing that is as mesmeric as helpful for the process, wide-range (fast on slurry - smooth on water), and embedded into tradition. What is there not to love?
Neither do I agree that Coticules are hyped. They are more documented today than they used to be. But "hyped" means to me that something is promoted to make the general audience believe it is more or better than it is. If I read the information about Coticules that can be found on this website, I don't see any false promises. I see an enthusiast little user community, that is eager to help out new owners tackling the learning curve connected to these whetstones.
Maurice Celis -owner of Ardennes Coticule- told me once: Coticules don't need ballyhooing, they can speak for themselves.
Kind regards,
Bart
Well, Bart pretty much said it all, but I'll say that I bought mine because I wanted something versatile. I plan on using it for finishing mostly.
I have zero experience and can't tell you if I love it or not.
But i'm willing to give it a go.
If I don't like it, then at least I know there's a market for it.
I have zero experience and can't tell you if I love it or not.
But i'm willing to give it a go.
If I don't like it, then at least I know there's a market for it.
I would certainly not say I dislike coticules. I haven't used them for honing, but I have shaved with an edge off one. It was very nice, but I still lean towards my ch12k. It just feels good for my face.
I wouldn't say I dislike my coticules because they're beautiful and great tools to work with. I am very happy I bought my Select 2.5"X8" LPB from Jarrod and I use it for sharpening often, it's a buttery smooth beautiful stone. It can easily be your only hone, etc.
That being said I just prefer other finished edges compared to the coticule, such as the following:
Swaty/ other barber's hones
Naniwa 12K
CrO paste
Diamond Sprays
Large Y/G Escher <3
To me, coticule finish is an acquired taste that I just don't know if I like sometimes. Sort of sticky dull feeling but sharp and not dull, that doesn't make sense but that's how they feel to my face. I have tried several coticules and blades honed by others on the coticules and they always feel the same to me, a sticky dullish sensation but sharp. I go back and forth on these stones a LOT and I just can't decide on my preference of them as finishers, they're very strange stones to me. Also the shaves don't last for me like they do when I use other finishing devices, mid day stubble occurs when I use them.
I do, on the other hand, love to use my coticules and then finish on a spray or paste, but then that's not a coticule edge anymore...
It's all about fun, use what you know and love!
That being said I just prefer other finished edges compared to the coticule, such as the following:
Swaty/ other barber's hones
Naniwa 12K
CrO paste
Diamond Sprays
Large Y/G Escher <3
To me, coticule finish is an acquired taste that I just don't know if I like sometimes. Sort of sticky dull feeling but sharp and not dull, that doesn't make sense but that's how they feel to my face. I have tried several coticules and blades honed by others on the coticules and they always feel the same to me, a sticky dullish sensation but sharp. I go back and forth on these stones a LOT and I just can't decide on my preference of them as finishers, they're very strange stones to me. Also the shaves don't last for me like they do when I use other finishing devices, mid day stubble occurs when I use them.
I do, on the other hand, love to use my coticules and then finish on a spray or paste, but then that's not a coticule edge anymore...
It's all about fun, use what you know and love!
They are overpriced. You can get equal or better (at least more consistent) performance from synthetic stones.
Looking at thesuperiorshave.com I counted over 10 coticules that where $60 or less. Add $10 for a slurry stone and you are good to go.
What kind of synthetic setup can you buy for that price that will go from setting the bevel to finishing?
I will agree that the bigger ones are expensive. And they did just have a price increase. They are a naturally mined stone that only one company in the world thinks is financially capable of making a profit, and then only by selling the other rock mined to get to the the coticule as slate and other things. If Ardennes ever shuts down, THEN coticule prices will go through the roof.
