Does anybody know anything about these kind of stones?

[Willem-Jan]

https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B07CXMZTQP/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3MWTOW3Y5FBF1&psc=1

They are supposed to be 10000 grit but they are quite cheap. Are they any good?

 

[SliceOfLife]

It’s a synthetic Jade if it’s what I think. No they’re basically a gimmick. Might as well take a piece of glass to hone on. The sellers direct from China On eBay who sell much smaller pieces for a couple bucks if you wanted to try it.

 

[Willem-Jan]

It’s a synthetic Jade if it’s what I think. No they’re basically a gimmick. Might as well take a piece of glass to hone on. The sellers direct from China On eBay who sell much smaller pieces for a couple bucks if you wanted to try it.

thanks, that's pretty much what I needed to know, but I was still in doubt because they seem to get many good reviews on Amazon.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I mean it cuts steel, but really it’s only positive attribute is that it’s very slow at it. Honestly most people using one would probably get better results if they just knew how to properly use a kitchen steel.

 

[totorlekiller]

I have honed many razors on those.
For a while I had a progression from Black Onyx (1k), to ruby (6k), to jade (10K) with finish on agates (12-15K).
It worked fine. It was a great traveling set for me as the stones were tiny. I just packed a small red DMX for the core bevel setting and moved on the gems stone from there.

A friend filmed me once as I was honing a Thiers Issard Frameback that way

 

[Willem-Jan]

I mean it cuts steel, but really it’s only positive attribute is that it’s very slow at it. Honestly most people using one would probably get better results if they just knew how to properly use a kitchen steel.

Isn't that the point of a high grit stone? I mean slow cutting?

 

[SliceOfLife]

No. You want the fastest stone that removes steel particles of a minimal size. That is why ultra hard, minimally porous stones without abrasive particulate like Jade are rarely good for honing. The act of honing causes damage to an edge. You are cutting and tearing and banging at the steel that is extremely thin at the edge of the razor. If a hone is too slow, The damage overtakes the refinement. Essentially the hone damages the outer steel faster than it reveals the inner steel. That is why I likened it to using a knife steel. Long term use of a knife steel in fact destroys an edge, forcing you to return to the stones, Because it is incapable (unless it’s on of the modern diamond impregnated ones) Of purposeful removal of steel. Stones like these jade pieces get very close to that same point of minimal steel removal, where they’re better at aligning the edge then progressing it... and attempting to use them to progress it causes so much damage to the edge that the performance of the resulting edge is massively inferior to what a faster cutting stone anywhere near their level of grit can produce. These jade pieces can polish an edge to where he shines like it came off of a 10000 to 30,000 grit stone. But they’re cutting is inferior off into a 4000 or 5000 grit edge, Simply because the edge is so rounded off from the steeling effect superseding the abrasive. Thus in the end you essentially get a much lower refined edge than advertised that simply looks extremely shiny, but in cutting ability is bested by edges off of stones much much lower grit.

 

[Willem-Jan]

ok thanks for the elaborate reply. Do you think spine leading strokes would make more sense on such a stone?

 

[SliceOfLife]

Not really. I wouldn't bother using one to be honest. I'd go Naniwa SS 10k if you want a cheap 10k stone (~$65), or Hard(vintage)/Surgical Black/Translucent Arkansas if you want a hard polishing stone.


eBay completed search finds a bunch of 6x2x1" Arkansas in the $20+ shipping range... probably about the same total as that jade stone after shipping to EU... and if you don't wanna wait for a deal like that, an extra $15-20 should make it a lot easier, for a stone that will work far, far better.

 

[Suhrim21]

I have that stone and can say it is crap. It doesn't work at all. It is now just a paperweight.

 

[Gamma]

It's very possible that these stones are reconstituted or sintered from industrial grade rough. It is also possible that they are actually natural; a type of beryl, or beryl-esque stone cut from an industrial-grade deposit. I did not want to spend $50 and wait 2 months to get a thin-secton slide to prove/disprove their origin; they aren't worth it.

Originally, they were sold by one person on an auction site as Beryl Hones, and the cost for one of that size was $200 USD. After they sold a bunch of them and their customers began to report that they were not 10k, not good, not as advertised, then the prices plummeted. Now, several sellers have them and costs are relatively low. I think, for a kitchen knife of mid-level quality that only required a very basic working edge; those stones are usable to some degree. For the same cost, a ceramic rod will do a better job though. When honing razors, I'd literally rather use almost anything else inlcuding sand paper.

The working surface of those stones is prone to being 'open', gaps, lines, fissures, small canyons, vugs, etc. The edges around those imperfections catch a razors edge easily, and - as an added attraction - the edges on those random flaws edges can spit debris into the honing medium. The alleged 10k grit level is ridiculous, they are not anywhere near 10k. The company that mades these green blocks of edge-killing wonderment also make a few other oddball hones that they call 'Agate' , also rated at 10k. Many of them are obviously synthetic, possibly sintered agate or something else. Some have interesting abstract patterns. I bought a small plain one; it was junk, just like this beryl thing but it was, at least, continuous through and through so it didn't chip anything.

 

[Suhrim21]

It's very possible that these stones are reconstituted or sintered from industrial grade rough. It is also possible that they are actually natural; a type of beryl, or beryl-esque stone cut from an industrial-grade deposit. I did not want to spend $50 and wait 2 months to get a thin-secton slide to prove/disprove their origin; they aren't worth it.

Originally, they were sold by one person on an auction site as Beryl Hones, and the cost for one of that size was $200 USD. After they sold a bunch of them and their customers began to report that they were not 10k, not good, not as advertised, then the prices plummeted. Now, several sellers have them and costs are relatively low. I think, for a kitchen knife of mid-level quality that only required a very basic working edge; those stones are usable to some degree. For the same cost, a ceramic rod will do a better job though. When honing razors, I'd literally rather use almost anything else inlcuding sand paper.

The working surface of those stones is prone to being 'open', gaps, lines, fissures, small canyons, vugs, etc. The edges around those imperfections catch a razors edge easily, and - as an added attraction - the edges on those random flaws edges can spit debris into the honing medium. The alleged 10k grit level is ridiculous, they are not anywhere near 10k. The company that mades these green blocks of edge-killing wonderment also make a few other oddball hones that they call 'Agate' , also rated at 10k. Many of them are obviously synthetic, possibly sintered agate or something else. Some have interesting abstract patterns. I bought a small plain one; it was junk, just like this beryl thing but it was, at least, continuous through and through so it didn't chip anything.

I actually bought the stone for the purpose of honing my kitchen knives. It doesn't even work for that. The only thing I have found it is good for is propping doors open. I have though about using it after planning natural stones just as a final smoothing of the stone before honing on it. But I'm honestly leery of even doing that with this stone.

 

[*stefan*]

I think I have one, the size seems right and remember it being sold as a 10 000# stone.
It works for me with kitchen knives, use it after AJ's DT slate that give me a more refined edge than naniwa 8000".
It's slow but very "glassy" why very speedy honing stroke can be used with kitchen knives.

It needed to be flattened and it had some grooved/unevenness and for this reason I put out rather large radius along the edges. The stone was delivered in some oil why I boiled the stone twice (probably not something to recommend).

Didn't manage to like it with straights but need to give it another shoot sometime, don't expect to like it.

 

[Pokeystotle]

I have one. I paid $20 for it. I spent a few hours with it when I first got it. But given that i don't have a ton of time to spend honing every day it got little of my time next to the good stuff I have. If I had to be brutally honest, at least compared to my experience with the good Jnats I have and use, its garbage. Caveat emptor.

 

[Willem-Jan]

Beryl Hone | TomoNagura.Com | Keith V. Johnson
looks like this thing.

I couldn't help myself and bought a little one myself for 16 euros:
https://www.amazon.it/gp/product/B07KLDL5P8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It arrived oily as someone else mentioned so I tried it with oil. To my surprise my test gold dollar1996 created a lot of black goo in no time. So it's definitely not like honing on glass. That razor had a failed coticule edge on it. After "honing" it on this green stone I shaved from it. Not sharp enough and maybe, but somewhat shaveable. I don't know if you can call it 10000 grit, but it doesn't seem to destroy edges. I will see what it does to a better coticule edge (when I manage one). At least this stone seems interesting enough to try a few things. If anything it looks and feels kinda cool.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Glass pulls steel if it isn’t smooth. Lap it down and see how fast it is.

 

[Willem-Jan]

By glass I assumed you meant completely smooth? Anyway, not saying anything about it's usefulness yet. I just didn't expect it to remove a lot of steel. I will also buy a tiny Arkansas stone to compare it too. Two other tiny stones to compare it to are already on the way. (ocean blue from amazon and a bbw).

 

[Suhrim21]

By glass I assumed you meant completely smooth? Anyway, not saying anything about it's usefulness yet. I just didn't expect it to remove a lot of steel. I will also buy a tiny Arkansas stone to compare it too. Two other tiny stones to compare it to are already on the way. (ocean blue from amazon and a bbw).

Let me know what you think of the ocean blue. Keep seeing those and been curious about them. Was thinking maybe as a pre-finisher for kitchen knives.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Glass as in it has no natural grit that is conducive to honing. It's just a really hard medium you can make work like a file by scarring it up. Sharpening razors on files (especially friable ones) isn't a great method in my opinion.

There was a member here who was experimenting with foundstones for quite awhile (there was a MASSIVE thread on them a couple years back), and while I think he eventually got a couple decent ones, he sent me one or two of his first ones... and they worked like this stuff does. I'd Lap it coarse, it'd cut like the dickens... then it'd wear in a bit, get pretty fine, but start damaging the edge... then by the end it pretty much wouldn't cut, only damage the edge. That's what stones that aren't good hones do, it's what granite or glass plates would do if you honed directly on them without added abrasives, and that's actually what they market as a benefit for these things.

 

[RayClem]

Let me know what you think of the ocean blue. Keep seeing those and been curious about them. Was thinking maybe as a pre-finisher for kitchen knives.

I have one of the Tsushima "Ocean Blue" stones. They are advertised as 12K; mine seems to fall somewhere between a 10K and 12K Naniwa SS in honing capability. For some folks, it might make a nice finisher. However, my coarse beard and sensitive skin likes edges even sharper and smoother than that so I use it as a prefinisher.

My Ocean Blue is one of the standard stones. They also sell more expensive "hard" stones they claim are even better, but I have not tried some of them. As with all natural stones, results vary depending upon the specific example you have.

BTW, out of curiosity, I picked up one of the Timbertools Thuringians. There is some controversy about whether the stone even qualifies as a Thuringian. After doing a lot of lapping to get a flat surface, I ended up with a hone similar to a 10K synthetic. I tried shaving off the stone, but the only way I could do so was to strop the blade on 0.5 micron CrOx for about 200 laps to further refine the edge. I get better edges from the Tsushima than from the Timbertools Thuringian. However, I know that some vintage Thuringians, and especially Escher brand stones, can do better than the Timbertools hone. My preferred finishers are a Greek Vermio, a South African Zulu Grey, a Welsh Yellow Lake slate, and a Imperia la Roccia from parts unknown. I also have Shapton Glass 16k and Suihiro 20K synthetics.