Doctor Who - Warning, Spoilers!

[beginish]

So only the "right" thoughts and opinions are welcomed here. Fine. Let us know when the series starts to be fun again so that we can discuss it.

Just because you don’t think it’s fun doesn’t mean no one else does. Of course most of the people who would have discussed it here are long gone from this thread. They may be at the sink trying to scrub away the stamps from their buzzword bingo cards. The squares with ‘social justice warrior’ and ‘woke’ and ‘sjw’ and ‘agenda’ have all taken a pretty good beating.

So because of a different agenda, this thread is now dead. Thanks for that.

 

[Haggises]

Message fiction has long infiltrated SF to the point that I seldom read it. The sad thing is if you concentrate on plot, you can have a message without message fiction, but that seems forgotten now. It sounds as though if the writers for Dr Who would deliver on the plot, they could still include their message while people still enjoyed the show.

That said, this bit is going through my mind:

"Who are you, sir?"

"Why, dear lady, I'm Professor Watt. These are my traveling companions, Mr. Wye and Miss Ida Noe."

"I see. And what is the dog's name?"

"Third Base."

You need to read better Sci fi. Try Ian M Banks. You're welcome

 

[mikelz777]

Just because you don’t think it’s fun doesn’t mean no one else does.

Me and the growing hundreds of thousands/million+ viewers who can't take it any more and are tuning out as evidenced by the poor and dropping ratings. Add to that those who are still watching but are unhappy with the direction of the once beloved show.

Of course most of the people who would have discussed it here are long gone from this thread. They may be at the sink trying to scrub away the stamps from their buzzword bingo cards. The squares with ‘social justice warrior’ and ‘woke’ and ‘sjw’ and ‘agenda’ have all taken a pretty good beating.

The very nature of a discussion is that participants share their thoughts and ideas and they may not necessarily be in agreement with others thoughts and ideas. Should those voices be silenced? Should anyone's voice be silenced because others are sharing opposing viewpoints? I don't think so.

Yes, the terms "social justice warrior", "woke", "sjw", and "agenda" have taken a pretty good beating and apparently serve as triggers to some but they are all apt and accurate descriptions of what's being forcefully and un-artfully crammed down viewers throats every week.

So because of a different agenda, this thread is now dead. Thanks for that.

You give me far too much credit. Thank Chris Chibnall. Thank Jodie Whittaker. Thank the BBC. Thank uninspired/bad writing. Thank those who would rather advance an agenda over a plot line.

I used to love this show. Doctors Eccleston, Tennant, and Smith provided years of entertainment in a show that I used to look forward to. Capaldi's tenure was a mixed bag. He was a great actor and Doctor grossly under-served by the writers and the social consciousness agenda started becoming more and more apparent. It's only gotten worse and more blatant since. If voicing my displeasure with this direction is an agenda then so be it.

 

[Dave-the-rave]

Bring back Billie.

 

[Haggises]

You just proved Beginish's point. You make the same tired arguments ad infinitum and ad nauseum.

 

[beginish]

The very nature of a discussion is that participants share their thoughts and ideas and they may not necessarily be in agreement with others thoughts and ideas. Should those voices be silenced? Should anyone's voice be silenced because others are sharing opposing viewpoints? I don't think so.

If you're saying the same stuff over and over and over again, it's probably time to find a different horse to flog. We figured out where you were coming from after the 2nd or 3rd time you posted it. You don't like it, we get it.

Yes, the terms "social justice warrior", "woke", "sjw", and "agenda" have taken a pretty good beating and apparently serve as triggers to some but they are all apt and accurate descriptions of what's being forcefully and un-artfully crammed down viewers throats every week.

They've certainly taken a huge beating in your posts and are forcefully and un-artfully crammed down the throats of readers of this thread every week. Kudos though for changing it up a bit with your "Dr. Whoke" riff. One more thing to add to the bingo card.

You give me far too much credit. Thank Chris Chibnall. Thank Jodie Whittaker. Thank the BBC. Thank uninspired/bad writing. Thank those who would rather advance an agenda over a plot line.

*snip*

Chibnall and Whittaker and the BBC and the writing and the stories? Sounds like there's actually a lot to talk about. But why would anyone bother at this point knowing that they're going to get browbeaten with the same tired diatribe? Oh, right, they don't. You can't blame the show for that.

 

[beginish]

Bring back Billie.

View attachment 1060235

+1

 

[imatabor]

Bring back Billie.

View attachment 1060235

Bring back Donna

 

[Haggises]

No Rose! No Donna! No Martha! No Clara! No Bill!

But I wouldn't mind a little more Amy, River and Jack. Maybe even Nardole.

 

[mikelz777]

If you're saying the same stuff over and over and over again, it's probably time to find a different horse to flog. We figured out where you were coming from after the 2nd or 3rd time you posted it. You don't like it, we get it.



They've certainly taken a huge beating in your posts and are forcefully and un-artfully crammed down the throats of readers of this thread every week. Kudos though for changing it up a bit with your "Dr. Whoke" riff. One more thing to add to the bingo card.



Chibnall and Whittaker and the BBC and the writing and the stories? Sounds like there's actually a lot to talk about. But why would anyone bother at this point knowing that they're going to get browbeaten with the same tired diatribe? Oh, right, they don't. You can't blame the show for that.

Sigh....

Well here we are then. I've been properly upbraided now haven't I? Please forgive me for venting my anger and frustration over the direction of what was once a great show. Carry on with your enjoyment.

 

[imatabor]

No Rose! No Donna! No Martha! No Clara! No Bill!

But I wouldn't mind a little more Amy, River and Jack. Maybe even Nardole.

I do miss River.

 

[Raissermesser]

You need to read better Sci fi. Try Ian M Banks. You're welcome

Banks I don't know. There's a number of writers who's works I've enjoyed who's mere mention of name is apt to kick off a heated discussion. But most of these seem to be "on the outs" by the publishing world, who seems to favor message laden fiction verses a rip roaring good tale that happens to have a message.

 

[Raissermesser]

You just proved Beginish's point. You make the same tired arguments ad infinitum and ad nauseum.

Which, oddly, is neither here nor there. The question is whether the current Dr Who stories are on the level of Star Trek's Let that be Your Last Battlefield, heavy handed message fiction, or ST:TOS The City on the Edge of Forever at the other end of things. If they aren't message fiction, then the charge is invalid. If they are, then it is.

 

[mikelz777]

Which, oddly, is neither here nor there. The question is whether the current Dr Who stories are on the level of Star Trek's Let that be Your Last Battlefield, heavy handed message fiction, or ST:TOS The City on the Edge of Forever at the other end of things. If they aren't message fiction, then the charge is invalid. If they are, then it is.

^^^
This. Kinda ironic.

 

[beginish]

Which, oddly, is neither here nor there. The question is whether the current Dr Who stories are on the level of Star Trek's Let that be Your Last Battlefield, heavy handed message fiction, or ST:TOS The City on the Edge of Forever at the other end of things. If they aren't message fiction, then the charge is invalid. If they are, then it is.

Um, no. The problem is not about whether Doctor Who is message fiction. It’s about the same people pushing the same tired agenda-driven, culture war pejorative criticisms post after post after post, and ruining the thread. Damage done. Mission accomplished.

 

[beginish]

^^^
This. Kinda ironic.

That the defense just changes the words to push the same tired diatribe? More predictable than ironic.

We’ll have to add message fiction to the bingo card.

 

[Haggises]

Which, oddly, is neither here nor there. The question is whether the current Dr Who stories are on the level of Star Trek's Let that be Your Last Battlefield, heavy handed message fiction, or ST:TOS The City on the Edge of Forever at the other end of things. If they aren't message fiction, then the charge is invalid. If they are, then it is.

Personally I like Doctor Who because it's a continuation of my golden age of childhood TV. Like I posted above it's always had a message. Sometimes subtle (Delta and the Bannermen) , sometimes a fist to the head (Orphan 55, The Green Death) That's irrelevant to this complaint.
What's relevant is the incessant complaining about the same stuff, over and over. It's dull, it's boring and it drives away any conversation about the show.
I look back almost fondly on the "Moffat is ruining this show and must GO" diatribes.

 

[Dave-the-rave]

RUN

 

[ajkel64]

Just watched it here in Australia. It is a joke. Sorry. It’s wrong. I er ah don’t know what else to say.

 

[Raissermesser]

Um, no. The problem is not about whether Doctor Who is message fiction. It’s about the same people pushing the same tired agenda-driven, culture war pejorative criticisms post after post after post, and ruining the thread. Damage done. Mission accomplished.

If that is the case, then all you have to do is to refute the charge. All I'm hearing from both sides is argument by assertion. Likewise, to make the case that Dr Who is up to its eyeballs in the woo, all that needs to be done is to show that it's message fiction.