Do You Strop On Fabric Before Leather? Why?

[TheLegalRazor]

For years I always stropped on fabric before leather. I never thought through why I did that. I just accepted that it was the proper way to strop. When I saw strops with only a leather component, I questioned how the maker could omit the fabric. I vaguely recall reading explanations as to why it was necessary to first strop on fabric, such as the fabric somehow preparing the edge for the leather. None of these explanations offered a reasoned rationale, but I always kept up the routine.

I finally decided to test the concept. Starting on January 1 of this year, I stopped stopping on fabric. I haven't stropped on fabric all year, and on September 30 it was 9 months that my blades do not touch fabric. The result of my 9 month experiment is that I cannot discern any benefit from stopping on fabric. My shaves from stopping on leather alone are the same as from stopping on fabric and leather.

If you strop on fabric before leather, what is your reasoning underlying this practice?

 

[ScottChapin]

I do, because they say it removes particulate matter prior to stropping. Since I normally wipe my blade dry first, I’m with you thinking it shouldn’t matter.

I have contemplated pasting, at which point it might make a huge difference. In my youth, barbers never talked about linen strops, but it’s hard to imagine that companies make them, if they’re of no value.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HVenture138]

I’ve found that it promotes the cleaning of the blade. My linen strops become a bit soiled and presumable if it weren’t happening there it would be happening on the leather. I have no insight into wether such a thing ultimately matters.

 

[bluesman 7]

I'm in the camp that linen is lightly abrasive, due to silica content, and does sharpen the edge. A secondary like cotton does not have this abrasive quality.

 

[Tester28]

I'm in the camp that linen is lightly abrasive, due to silica content, and does sharpen the edge. A secondary like cotton does not have this abrasive quality.

I have seen some canvas (cotton) strops and judging by the sound the blade makes on them, they seem
fairy abrasive.

 

[stone and strop]

I'm in the camp that linen is lightly abrasive, due to silica content, and does sharpen the edge. A secondary like cotton does not have this abrasive quality.

Linen is indeed slightly abrasive.
I have to believe if vintage canvas on strops (like on Red Imps) either have some abrasiveness or they can remove/reduce dings that leather can't.
I pretty much never use linen anymore (I like to hone) but when younger and experimenting with everything straight related, linen/canvas would bring an edge back around that leather would not so I always recommend to use leather only till the leather is not recovering the edge fully then use linen followed by leather only again till the leather couldn't do it again. You can get 2- 3 cycles by including the linen when needed prolonging the edge without honing.

 

[bluesman 7]

Linen is indeed slightly abrasive.
I have to believe if vintage canvas on strops (like on Red Imps) either have some abrasiveness or they can remove/reduce dings that leather can't.

Originally canvas was made from the hemp plant(named canvas from cannabis). Hemp has a similar fiber to flax (real linen) and also has a high silica content.

 

[stone and strop]

Originally canvas was made from the hemp plant(named canvas from cannabis). Hemp has a similar fiber to flax (real linen) and also has a high silica content.

Is there any way to discern between hemp canvas and actual linen or canvas visually?

 

[bluesman 7]

Is there any way to discern between hemp canvas and actual linen or canvas visually?

Some people can probably tell with a microscope but I don't know what to look for. Maybe some google fu is in order.
I seem to remember reading something about tests for true linen that fabric importers were concerned about. I think that nearly all modern canvas is cotton which is not very abrasive IME. There is speculation that the Kanayama secondaries are hemp canvas.

 

[stone and strop]

Some people can probably tell with a microscope but I don't know what to look for. Maybe some google fu is in order.
I seem to remember reading something about tests for true linen that fabric importers were concerned about. I think that nearly all modern canvas is cotton which is not very abrasive IME. There is speculation that the Kanayama secondaries are hemp canvas.

If this is true I will compare the Kanayama to my others.
Thanks

 

[stone and strop]

Found this source for fibers,

Naveed ul hassan (tmm 1 a)

Naveed ul hassan (tmm 1 a) - Download as a PDF or view online for free

www.slideshare.net

You can click through the pages for info.

A quick look at three strops lets me believe the Kanayama is possibly cotton. Red Imp possible linen/flax and vintage firehose "silk finish" possible linen/flax.
I will try again under heavier magnification.

 

[bluesman 7]

Great link @stone and strop

I have a polyester secondary on my Boar hide strop that is the most aggressive secondary that I've ever experienced. I had wondered what could make a polyester strop so abrasive. Today I was searching around and found that fumed silica is often used as a thickener in polyester resins, it is also used as a mild abrasive.

 

[EL Alamein]

For myself I always use linen first. My experiments in the past have always indicated to me that it gives a keener edge. YMMV.

Chris

 

[stone and strop]

I can now say I am fairly certain that the Kanayama second component is cotton.
Red Imp is linen/flax.
"Keen edge" vintage hose is linen/flax.
I managed to view them all at 400x this morning.

 

[bluesman 7]

I can now say I am fairly certain that the Kanayama second component is cotton.
Red Imp is linen/flax.
"Keen edge" vintage hose is linen/flax.
I managed to view them all at 400x this morning.

Thank you for this research. I find the whole secondary fiber component interesting. I even toyed with the idea of constructing a 2.5" loom once.

 

[stone and strop]

Thank you for this research. I find the whole secondary fiber component interesting. I even toyed with the idea of constructing a 2.5" loom once.

No worries.
I will not say 100% for my findings but the ribbon description for cotton is clearly evident with Kanayama.
Both the Imp and Keen Edge were clearly cylindrical in nature. The nodes, as described, are difficult to see but there. I think I was expecting to see all kinds of them but they are found randomly throughout.
I had to remove the platen for viewing razors and use the bottom light with a clear slide to view at 400x.
I had never really given any thought to the second component before.
It is interesting.

 

[Legion]

I feel that I do notice a slight edge improvement when I use my linen strop, but I should say that it is so slight that it might be in my imagination.

What I can say for sure is that over the years I have seen the white linen darken with what I can only assume is a buildup of microscopic steel particles. They would be in my leather now if the linen wasn't used.

 

[bluesman 7]

What I can say for sure is that over the years I have seen the white linen darken with what I can only assume is a buildup of microscopic steel particles.

The darkening is iron oxide, which is also an abrasive.

 

[Namkcakram]

Linen is both mildly abrasive and the best way to clean off the bevel itself. I think the mistake most people make is trying to use it just like the leather instead of understanding what benefits it provides. For example I see people posting they strop something like “50 linen/50 leather” right before every single shave.

They work differently for different purposes so you shouldn’t use them the same way. The first purpose is to clean the blade to keep the leather and the blades cutting edge as clean as possible, and the second purpose is that it’s mildly abrasive vs leather which seems to have a plastic deformation effect on the bevel.

If you have good enough magnification you can see that wiping the blade almost always still leaves microscopic bits of skin, blood, soap, and water on the bevel which will cause micro pitting over time. Because of this I generally shave, then rinse, wipe, rinse, wipe, strop on my palm 5 ish times, then strop on linen pulled taught with no pressure 5 ish times. Then the next time I go to shave with that blade I start with 5ish more on linen same way to warm the bevel up and keep the leather clean. Then I strop on leather 50ish times just like anybody else.

What I find is using the linen lightly like this seems to extend the edge life. After quite a few shaves when the edge starts to tug a bit i give it 50+ on linen and the edge revives again to ~80% of its original quality. I find it can keep going like this for maybe 3-5 revival stropping sessions depending on the blade, and then I really get the urge to re-hone.

I took one blade and strop on a 272 day deployment like this and by the end it was a struggle to get through a decent single pass shave, but it made it the whole way. These days I hone a lot on Coticules so it’s just as easy to touch up hone instead of stropping at the first or second refresh.

 

[Slash McCoy]

For years I always stropped on fabric before leather. I never thought through why I did that. I just accepted that it was the proper way to strop. When I saw strops with only a leather component, I questioned how the maker could omit the fabric. I vaguely recall reading explanations as to why it was necessary to first strop on fabric, such as the fabric somehow preparing the edge for the leather. None of these explanations offered a reasoned rationale, but I always kept up the routine.

I finally decided to test the concept. Starting on January 1 of this year, I stopped stopping on fabric. I haven't stropped on fabric all year, and on September 30 it was 9 months that my blades do not touch fabric. The result of my 9 month experiment is that I cannot discern any benefit from stopping on fabric. My shaves from stopping on leather alone are the same as from stopping on fabric and leather.

If you strop on fabric before leather, what is your reasoning underlying this practice?

Same here. I found it to offer nothing at all to the final result. It is just a bother, and it is in the way. And it makes it inconvenient to swap ends. Added unneccesary expense. Leather alone works just fine.