I have 3 Nagura, a Botan, a Meijo, and a Tenjou. I read somewhere that the Tenjou and Meijo were basically the same.
Do I need another for my Jnat of unknown origin?
Do I need another for my Jnat of unknown origin?
Do I need another Nagura?
- Thread starter JGKC9AYC
- Start date
You could use a tomo nagura to finish on, some people would use a diamond slurry.
Koma is good if you can find the real deal. Much of whats out there is chu. There are some serious nagura progressions out there. I spent a few years messing around with them until i realized after a midrange synthetic or a mid range suita to finisher with diamond plate slurry or one tomo works as well and its much faster. The goal IMO is not to spend time on something just to spend time. If I got something out of it i would still do it. But try everything and see for yourself.
I think you want finishing nagura from pieces of other base stones these are frequently referred to as tomo nagura (though IIRC a true tomo is apparently a slurry stone from the same base stone?). This is where Jnats are fun IMHO and yes, a wonderful waste of time. I don't use a full botan-mejiro-tenjou-koma-tomo progression much. I like to use different base stones of varying degrees of grit/hardness. I do like a Koma but those are pricey. My koma is fairly small but works well.
You can see there is an endless of variety of fun to be had by combining this with that. But YES get a good finishing nagura from a reputable vendor that knows razor honing. JNAT duds are a dime a dozen and I am sure most have had their share of duds. There is a popular member here that sells JNATs and nagura on ETSY that are truly razor grade and wonderful products. I don't want to break any rules or step on toes so a bit of detective work will sort that out.
You can see there is an endless of variety of fun to be had by combining this with that. But YES get a good finishing nagura from a reputable vendor that knows razor honing. JNAT duds are a dime a dozen and I am sure most have had their share of duds. There is a popular member here that sells JNATs and nagura on ETSY that are truly razor grade and wonderful products. I don't want to break any rules or step on toes so a bit of detective work will sort that out.
!!!!- Thread starter
- #7
Heck, I don’t know. I’m kinda new to all this. I got a super fine DMT and a 4K/8K stone.
Where can I find a koma and a tomo?
Not sure actually, I bought my naguras directly from a Japanese seller.
Whatever the case though, seems like the prices have quadrupled since my purchase.
A little bit of google will get you to reputable places that sell them (as well as nods from posters above).
Though, if you are trying to dip your toe into the jnat game, then I think the koma/tomo might be price prohibitive.
I'm going to go on a tangent, and say you don't need koma or tomo because if your jnat is hard and fine (I'm assuming it is) then you might already have everything you need.
If I were given a jnat, extra-fine DMT, a Norton 4k/8k I'd do something like this:
1) Get a proper apex from DMT
2) Once you have that, try to get the best finish you can on 4k/8k. Synthetics at 8k tends to leave shiny bevel.
3) Raise a fairly thick slurry with your DMT
The most important thing here is the very first couple of strokes.
If you hear a crackle, then the slurry has something bad in it (a piece of diamond or maybe you have toxic line).
If you ignore this and keep going, you'll make more and more micro-chips at the edge resulting in what people usually call "over-honing." With every pass, the particle deteriorates the edge. IMHO, this is the most PITA thing about jnat and slurry. You have to thoroughly clean your stone and your razor and start over.
If you can do a few strokes and the sound and feel is smooth and consistent, do straight top to bottom strokes, 10 per each side, then 8, 6, 4, 2, 1, 1, 1. At the end, you are looking for kind of sand blasted bevel (japanese folks call it kasumi or fog/mist) and the edge feels slightly toothy/sticky. The goal is to remove as much of the larger scratch patterns from your 4k/8k. The thick slurry facilitates speedy removal.
My personal recommendation is to just forget about toe and heel.
This was my biggest problem when I started. I tried to do the fancy rolling-x, etc. to get the perfect edge from corner to corner.
At this point, the only thing you are trying to achieve is to get an excellent edge at SOME region in the razor (hopefully some large region in the middle). Once you know how to get screaming edge in the middle, then you can learn to extend that region to the ends because you'll know what it feels like. At least that's how it clicked for me.
4) Once you think most of the deeper scratches are gone, then make slurry as before, but maybe add twice as much water to it. It'll dilute the slurry. Use less pressure and do the routine again. You basically repeat this dilution until you think it's done.
5) Strop (and repeat 4, if needed, or for zen/therapeutic reasons)
6) Shave
"Hold on a minute, this was a thread about naguras, and you didn't use nagura!" you might say.
Maybe I've gotten lucky with my jnats, but I've found that you can jump from 8k to jnat/tomo without nagura.
(And we basically replaced tomo with a DMT.)
To me, the golden rule of sharpening anything (including SR) is to use the finest grit that'll get the job done.
If you can go straight from from bevel set to 30k, then that's the best.
This usually doesn't work because it'll take too long to get rid of 1k scratch patterns on 30k.
But you CAN get rid of most of the 8k patterns on thick jnat slurry, and rather quickly.
If you are doing one-stone hone, then the story is different. Your "tomo" slurry from DMT will not cut fast enough to get rid of the 1k scratches, so you'll need your botan.
Forgive me for going off the tangent, when all you wanted to know was where to get tomo/koma.
I saw the ludicrous prices that these were going for (I should have bought a dozen when I had the chance to grab them "cheap") and couldn't in good conscience recommend them.
Good luck!
Whatever the case though, seems like the prices have quadrupled since my purchase.
A little bit of google will get you to reputable places that sell them (as well as nods from posters above).
Though, if you are trying to dip your toe into the jnat game, then I think the koma/tomo might be price prohibitive.
I'm going to go on a tangent, and say you don't need koma or tomo because if your jnat is hard and fine (I'm assuming it is) then you might already have everything you need.
If I were given a jnat, extra-fine DMT, a Norton 4k/8k I'd do something like this:
1) Get a proper apex from DMT
2) Once you have that, try to get the best finish you can on 4k/8k. Synthetics at 8k tends to leave shiny bevel.
3) Raise a fairly thick slurry with your DMT
If you hear a crackle, then the slurry has something bad in it (a piece of diamond or maybe you have toxic line).
If you ignore this and keep going, you'll make more and more micro-chips at the edge resulting in what people usually call "over-honing." With every pass, the particle deteriorates the edge. IMHO, this is the most PITA thing about jnat and slurry. You have to thoroughly clean your stone and your razor and start over.
If you can do a few strokes and the sound and feel is smooth and consistent, do straight top to bottom strokes, 10 per each side, then 8, 6, 4, 2, 1, 1, 1. At the end, you are looking for kind of sand blasted bevel (japanese folks call it kasumi or fog/mist) and the edge feels slightly toothy/sticky. The goal is to remove as much of the larger scratch patterns from your 4k/8k. The thick slurry facilitates speedy removal.
My personal recommendation is to just forget about toe and heel.
This was my biggest problem when I started. I tried to do the fancy rolling-x, etc. to get the perfect edge from corner to corner.
At this point, the only thing you are trying to achieve is to get an excellent edge at SOME region in the razor (hopefully some large region in the middle). Once you know how to get screaming edge in the middle, then you can learn to extend that region to the ends because you'll know what it feels like. At least that's how it clicked for me.
4) Once you think most of the deeper scratches are gone, then make slurry as before, but maybe add twice as much water to it. It'll dilute the slurry. Use less pressure and do the routine again. You basically repeat this dilution until you think it's done.
5) Strop (and repeat 4, if needed, or for zen/therapeutic reasons)
6) Shave
"Hold on a minute, this was a thread about naguras, and you didn't use nagura!" you might say.
Maybe I've gotten lucky with my jnats, but I've found that you can jump from 8k to jnat/tomo without nagura.
(And we basically replaced tomo with a DMT.)
To me, the golden rule of sharpening anything (including SR) is to use the finest grit that'll get the job done.
If you can go straight from from bevel set to 30k, then that's the best.
This usually doesn't work because it'll take too long to get rid of 1k scratch patterns on 30k.
But you CAN get rid of most of the 8k patterns on thick jnat slurry, and rather quickly.
If you are doing one-stone hone, then the story is different. Your "tomo" slurry from DMT will not cut fast enough to get rid of the 1k scratches, so you'll need your botan.
Forgive me for going off the tangent, when all you wanted to know was where to get tomo/koma.
I saw the ludicrous prices that these were going for (I should have bought a dozen when I had the chance to grab them "cheap") and couldn't in good conscience recommend them.
Good luck!
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