Discussion Thread for Proforma Latigo Strop....
- Thread starter joel
- Start date
I saw the 'thumbsdown' sign and the title ... thinking it was a Tony Miller strop under review I was, shall we say, intrigued. Ah, someone else's strop ... well, now it makes sense.
I sort of feel sorry for anyone else making strops these days ... but thankful that Tony Miller is out there setting the bar nice and high.
I sort of feel sorry for anyone else making strops these days ... but thankful that Tony Miller is out there setting the bar nice and high.
I'm really sorry your disappointed with my strop is their any advice I can lend to help make adjustments to the strop. Or if you wish you can return it and I can put more neats foot oil on it and increase the draw.
The Latigo is high grade leather. I try to make sure their are little no blemishes in the leather.
The Latigo is high grade leather. I try to make sure their are little no blemishes in the leather.
- Thread starter
- #4
I did contact you if you recall - and I did put more oil on it per your instruction, and it still has proven to be vastly inferior to a Tony Miller strop. I actually tried neatsfoot first, then lexol, then the conditioner Tony Miller provides with his strops.... still an inferior cut of leather. Sorry.
Keep at it, Damon, and don't be too discouraged, Joel did say he preferred it to a similarly priced Dovo which many use and are happy with. Tony Miller has indeed, as Doc4 said, set the bar unnervingly high. Personally, I didn't read the review as entirely negative.
No I am not discouraged at all, one thing you have to remember is that leather varies greatly from hide to hide, and I respect Joels review It just means I have to pay more attention to my product.
In defense of anyone making strops I want to add that the hide quality varies greatly even if having it custom tanned to ones specs. Our surface quality needs are far different than most end users of leather and what we may consider unacceptable may be as good as it gets for many leather suppliers.
I probably yield 60% usable, 40% unusable from what I buy and that is after going through just about every USA supplier of hides. From a business standpoint the cost of waste needs to be covered by what is sold and is why strops cost what they do.
Finding good leather is not easy, not inexpensive and never a sure thing. Reviews like these are how we all learn to improve what we sell (me included). In my case I know Joel prefered my Apprentice to my Horsehide Artisan.
I owned one of Damon's early strops and found it quite nice. There are things in his product I admire more than mine like the added handles and features of mine I prefer over his. Personal taste is a big factor. There are things in Keiths strops I like too and will probably add one to my collection as well. We all bring different things to the market and all valid options.
Tony
Ah yes.. The inevitable forum cops.
I have two of Damon's stops and I love em both. I don't buy every brand of everything so I can critique one or the other.
The Pro Forma strops work. They work well. I don't need another.
These kinds of "reviews" are one reason I don't hand around the forums much anymore. I make shaving brushes, and after having the cops( experts in every way) who patrol the brushes say that "Any" custom brush is but a pretty handle or nice paperweight and it "must have the name Rooney or Vulfix" on the handle... I too was stung.
If you can't appreciate the effort made by members of the forum to provide something of value and that serves YOUR interest without some scathing critique you stand the chance of chasing away others who are just trying to be of service.
Sorry if I've been a little abrupt but Damon and I are good friends and I know that his efforts to serve the forum are genuine, as were mine, and should be treated with a little more consideration.
A comparison and a put down are two distinctly different things. Comparisons are food for thought, possibly an incentive to improve a service or product.. A put down is just that and is of no value at all.
Please be aware when making a "review" of a product or service that it may be a members effort you are reviewing..not a big corporation.. and is therefore very personal to him. An honest critique with suggestions on how something might be improved will be well accepted.
Saying that this guy's stuff is better than that guy's stuff cause that guy's stuff is just "hands down" inferior serves no useful purpose.
There...I've had my say. And by golly I feel better
:
Ed
I have two of Damon's stops and I love em both. I don't buy every brand of everything so I can critique one or the other.
The Pro Forma strops work. They work well. I don't need another.
These kinds of "reviews" are one reason I don't hand around the forums much anymore. I make shaving brushes, and after having the cops( experts in every way) who patrol the brushes say that "Any" custom brush is but a pretty handle or nice paperweight and it "must have the name Rooney or Vulfix" on the handle... I too was stung.
If you can't appreciate the effort made by members of the forum to provide something of value and that serves YOUR interest without some scathing critique you stand the chance of chasing away others who are just trying to be of service.
Sorry if I've been a little abrupt but Damon and I are good friends and I know that his efforts to serve the forum are genuine, as were mine, and should be treated with a little more consideration.
A comparison and a put down are two distinctly different things. Comparisons are food for thought, possibly an incentive to improve a service or product.. A put down is just that and is of no value at all.
Please be aware when making a "review" of a product or service that it may be a members effort you are reviewing..not a big corporation.. and is therefore very personal to him. An honest critique with suggestions on how something might be improved will be well accepted.
Saying that this guy's stuff is better than that guy's stuff cause that guy's stuff is just "hands down" inferior serves no useful purpose.
There...I've had my say. And by golly I feel better
:Ed
Ah yes.. The inevitable forum cops.
I have two of Damon's stops and I love em both. I don't buy every brand of everything so I can critique one or the other.
The Pro Forma strops work. They work well. I don't need another.
These kinds of "reviews" are one reason I don't hand around the forums much anymore. I make shaving brushes, and after having the cops( experts in every way) who patrol the brushes say that "Any" custom brush is but a pretty handle or nice paperweight and it "must have the name Rooney or Vulfix" on the handle... I too was stung.
If you can't appreciate the effort made by members of the forum to provide something of value and that serves YOUR interest without some scathing critique you stand the chance of chasing away others who are just trying to be of service.
Sorry if I've been a little abrupt but Damon and I are good friends and I know that his efforts to serve the forum are genuine, as were mine, and should be treated with a little more consideration.
A comparison and a put down are two distinctly different things. Comparisons are food for thought, possibly an incentive to improve a service or product.. A put down is just that and is of no value at all.
Please be aware when making a "review" of a product or service that it may be a members effort you are reviewing..not a big corporation.. and is therefore very personal to him. An honest critique with suggestions on how something might be improved will be well accepted.
Saying that this guy's stuff is better than that guy's stuff cause that guy's stuff is just "hands down" inferior serves no useful purpose.
There...I've had my say. And by golly I feel better
Ed
Comparison and put-down are value-laden terms - one man's criticism is anothers put-down.
To be as blunt as possible, when I do a review, I could care less if the product was made by a large corporation or a member in his basement. Pulling punches just 'cause its made by a member or some small operation does a disservice to all of the members who read and rely on these reviews to make decisions as to where to spend their hard-earned cash.
When you start selling your product, you're out there and you better have skin thick enough to take the slings and arrows of public opinion.
- Thread starter
- #10
Ah yes.. The inevitable forum cops.
I have two of Damon's stops and I love em both. I don't buy every brand of everything so I can critique one or the other.
The Pro Forma strops work. They work well. I don't need another.
These kinds of "reviews" are one reason I don't hand around the forums much anymore. I make shaving brushes, and after having the cops( experts in every way) who patrol the brushes say that "Any" custom brush is but a pretty handle or nice paperweight and it "must have the name Rooney or Vulfix" on the handle... I too was stung.
If you can't appreciate the effort made by members of the forum to provide something of value and that serves YOUR interest without some scathing critique you stand the chance of chasing away others who are just trying to be of service.
Sorry if I've been a little abrupt but Damon and I are good friends and I know that his efforts to serve the forum are genuine, as were mine, and should be treated with a little more consideration.
A comparison and a put down are two distinctly different things. Comparisons are food for thought, possibly an incentive to improve a service or product.. A put down is just that and is of no value at all.
Please be aware when making a "review" of a product or service that it may be a members effort you are reviewing..not a big corporation.. and is therefore very personal to him. An honest critique with suggestions on how something might be improved will be well accepted.
Saying that this guy's stuff is better than that guy's stuff cause that guy's stuff is just "hands down" inferior serves no useful purpose.
There...I've had my say. And by golly I feel better
Ed
You are biased - in that your friend is Damon. I am unbiased, in that I don't even have friends.... ask anyone here
That aside, Tony is also a small vendor who makes strops by hand, out of his house, and guess what - they're substantially superior and provide SUPERIOR performance and SUPERIOR value. You admit you don't buy multiple products and thus you likely haven't tried a strop from Tony Miller, so naturally you wouldn't know how superior they were.
You seem to have a bee in your bonnet my friend... but typically the "forum cops" enjoy products which offer a good mix of quality and performance. Also, referring to your customers as "forum cops" is pretty telling towards your likely attitude re: customer service/support.... or lack there of. I doubt this is your day job, but I can't imagine many businesses gaining a following by insulting their prospects and possible product champions who would assist in word of mouth promotion.
I've actually never heard of you, or your custom brushes, but if you've gotten beat up over them, chances are - they're deficient in some way, shape or form. People tend to not beat up products they enjoy, which are of high quality/value. When I bought my first Shavemac a few years ago - they were too were just a small custom shop, like you - but grew rapidly based on them offering a quality product, at a good value. Maybe brush making isn't for you?
You seem like a good, noble friend to Damon - but unfortunately, you don't seem to understand the concept/premise of a review and this site/forum... you may wish to refrain from participating here, and other forums, as you'll quickly find your intolerance for "Reviews" and "Comparisons" will not be welcomed. I think if anything, you're doing your friend an injustice, by bumping this thread and being unreasonable and ungentlemanly - when your friend Damon was exceptionally gentlemanly, positive and confidence inspiring. I'm sure his strops have since improved, based on his willingness to receive constructive criticism and improve his products... your products would likely benefit from you adopting a similar attitude.
My humble apologies to anyone who I may have offended.
Joel you were correct when you said that you didn't know me. I have obviously in the heat of the moment given the wrong impression.
You are very correct in saying that my bias was showing. Damon is a very dear friend. I realize that your review wasn't personal. Just your opinion on a given product. You as well as anyone certainly have that right. My kneejerk response was out of order.
To get a better handle on who I am and how well my brushes have been accepted go to Ebay and look up "biged645". Read my seller feedback.
Please don't think that this is an effort to self promote. I am disabled, on SS and no longer take personal orders. I only list on Ebay as I am able.
Again, I apologize for any offense and accept the fact that a review is a review know matter the source of the product or service. I'll be the first to admit that I have a lot of room for improvement. I am truly sorry for the "cop" remark. Pure nastiness on my part. Patience my friend.. I'm trying.
Ed
There...I've had my say ..again.. and by golly I still feel better
Joel you were correct when you said that you didn't know me. I have obviously in the heat of the moment given the wrong impression.
You are very correct in saying that my bias was showing. Damon is a very dear friend. I realize that your review wasn't personal. Just your opinion on a given product. You as well as anyone certainly have that right. My kneejerk response was out of order.
To get a better handle on who I am and how well my brushes have been accepted go to Ebay and look up "biged645". Read my seller feedback.
Please don't think that this is an effort to self promote. I am disabled, on SS and no longer take personal orders. I only list on Ebay as I am able.
Again, I apologize for any offense and accept the fact that a review is a review know matter the source of the product or service. I'll be the first to admit that I have a lot of room for improvement. I am truly sorry for the "cop" remark. Pure nastiness on my part. Patience my friend.. I'm trying.
Ed
There...I've had my say ..again.. and by golly I still feel better
- Thread starter
- #12
My humble apologies to anyone who I may have offended.
Joel you were correct when you said that you didn't know me. I have obviously in the heat of the moment given the wrong impression.
You are very correct in saying that my bias was showing. Damon is a very dear friend. I realize that your review wasn't personal. Just your opinion on a given product. You as well as anyone certainly have that right. My kneejerk response was out of order.
To get a better handle on who I am and how well my brushes have been accepted go to Ebay and look up "biged645". Read my seller feedback.
Please don't think that this is an effort to self promote. I am disabled, on SS and no longer take personal orders. I only list on Ebay as I am able.
Again, I apologize for any offense and accept the fact that a review is a review know matter the source of the product or service. I'll be the first to admit that I have a lot of room for improvement. I am truly sorry for the "cop" remark. Pure nastiness on my part. Patience my friend.. I'm trying.
Ed
There...I've had my say ..again.. and by golly I still feel better
Your gentlemanly response is much appreciated. We all have moments where we get a little too excited and respond too quickly.
