Diluting CBN emulsion?

[Dzaw]

I am putting together my balsa strops. I figure on using lapping film down to 0.3 micron, then stropping on balsa with 0.5 and 0.1 micron CBN.

However, I've read lots and lots of warnings that almost everyone uses way too much, and the CBN emulsion I have coming looks to be a fairly thick concentrated liquid.

I can't seem to find anywhere that tells me what the abrasive is suspended in, so I'm not sure what to use to dilute it. I would like to dilute it roughly 50% so I can spread it evenly and sparsely for best results.

 

[C FrankC]

I would first try alcohol, I use powdered pigment CrOx as a polishing abrasive and dilute using Isopropyl alcohol.
I find the alcohol (as a carrier) evaporates quickly leaving no noticeable residue and allows a very even distribution when applied using a misting bottle.
I don't know if the CBN pastes carrier is soluble in alcohol but it would be easy try. I am on the search for just such a compound as this, CBN that is able to be diluted this way. If you try this please post your findings.

 

[Dzaw]

I ordered a little extra so I could experiment with solubility. I figure I'll try alcohol, acetone, light oil, water, and see where I go from there.

I'll update this thread once I have some results to share. Just waiting on the post now.

 

[Dzaw]

So it appears that an emulsion is (chemically) a different beast than I thought. I've been doing some reading on emulsions after the initial partial success of my early tests.

The emulsion includes a component that is water soluble, but I get better distribution of the second phase (containing the abrasive) when I use alcohol. The reading I've been doing indicates a surfactant would help a lot in maintaining the particle distribution. I'm going to try a drop of dawn dissolved into a cup of water, and see if a drop of that does a better job of spreading this emulsion out. If so, then alcohol and dawn might be the right mix...

 

[Dzaw]

Yick, dawn makes water about as effective as alcohol, which is to say, not very. It seems to dilute the base ok, but the abrasive clumpsnin the liquid rather than staying evenly emulsified. Maybe I’ll try just applying it sparingly directly to the balsa after all.

 

[Dzaw]

Oil was an absolute nope, acetone and ‘goof off’ cleaner were similar to one another, being just less effective than water.

 

[RayClem]

In order for an emulsion to be stable, you have to have a certain ratio of solid, liquid, and surfactant. While solutions can easily be diluted, that is not always the case with emulsions.

I know you read warnings about using too much CBN paste or spray, but I think the biggest issue is wasting product, rather than detrimental effects on the razor. With pastes, I usually apply more than required and then wipe off the excess. If you are applying a water based spray, too much water might cause a problem with the balsa or leather substrate, but I do not see extra abrasive being a problem. If extra CBN makes the process more aggressive, simply reduce the number of laps used.

 

[Dzaw]

In order for an emulsion to be stable, you have to have a certain ratio of solid, liquid, and surfactant. While solutions can easily be diluted, that is not always the case with emulsions.

So I am learning. I've experimented with this stuff enough to know that phase I is water soluble, but Phase II dissolves more thoroughly in the lower tension of alcohol, and is probably oil soluble. Common household surfectants (dawn, simple green, ivory soap) did not seem to help, and I have neither the equipment nor knowhow to take this effort further.

So I went ahead and tried my best to coat evenly and lightly, following @Slash McCoy's directions to the best of my ability. I have enough leftover product to re-coat about 10 ish more times, so if I did too much, it's not that big of a loss.

 

[steveclarkus]

I redid my .1u diamond pasted strop because I used too much paste the last time. This time, I applied little dots all around the strop with a toothpick from a pre-measured amount of paste. I don't know the consistency of CBN but this did work to get a good distribution of diamond paste on the balsa without overdoing the paste.

 

[RayClem]

I redid my .1u diamond pasted strop because I used too much paste the last time. This time, I applied little dots all around the strop with a toothpick from a pre-measured amount of paste. I don't know the consistency of CBN but this did work to get a good distribution of diamond paste on the balsa without overdoing the paste.

Due to the hardness of diamond as well as the crystal shape, diamond is much more aggressive than CBN. Thus, applying too much diamond paste or spray may well be more of an issue than with CBN.

 

[steveclarkus]

Due to the hardness of diamond as well as the crystal shape, diamond is much more aggressive than CBN. Thus, applying too much diamond paste or spray may well be more of an issue than with CBN.

I'm going to try CBN soon as it sounds really promising. I read that it was second in hardness next to diamond and read on the board that it gave a softer finishing edge. Has that been your experience?

 

[RayClem]

Ii have not tried diamond pastes or sprays so I cannot verify what others have said about diamond abrasives.

I use 0.5 and 0.25 micron CBN pastes. I use 0.125 micron CBN spray. They work well for me. I have a very tough, white beard and very sensitive skin (ruddy complexion); the pasted/sprayed strops give me the keenest, smoothest edges I have yet to be able to achieve. The pastes were from Gritomatic and were not all that expensive. The 0.125 micron CBN was the Ken Schwartz spray from CKTG. The spray is more expensive, but a bottle should last a long time.

 

[steveclarkus]

Ii have not tried diamond pastes or sprays so I cannot verify what others have said about diamond abrasives.

I use 0.5 and 0.25 micron CBN pastes. I use 0.125 micron CBN spray. They work well for me. I have a very tough, white beard and very sensitive skin (ruddy complexion); the pasted/sprayed strops give me the keenest, smoothest edges I have yet to be able to achieve. The pastes were from Gritomatic and were not all that expensive. The 0.125 micron CBN was the Ken Schwartz spray from CKTG. The spray is more expensive, but a bottle should last a long time.

Thanks. I think I’ll try the spray. Seems like it would be less trouble to distribute on the balsa.

 

[kelbro]

The Ken Schwartz emulsion is really easy to distribute on a balsa strop. Put a drop on, smear it. Tiger stripes and/or a cross-hatch pattern works 100%. No need to have it 'painted'.

 

[Dzaw]

The Ken Schwartz emulsion is really easy to distribute on a balsa strop. Put a drop on, smear it. Tiger stripes and/or a cross-hatch pattern works 100%. No need to have it 'painted'.

That's pretty much what I did. I used the Schwartz emulsion, and working quickly it wasn't difficult to get even but thin coverage.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Interesting thread, gentlemen. Thanks.