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Differences in Muhle STF over the years?

Has anyone noticed a difference in the STF fibre over the years?

My first was a 25mm from RV, circa 2013. Springy for sure and in no way would I mistake its behavior for natural hair. I bought an RV 23mm a year later and that was even more springy. Within days, I sold it to a friend who liked the handle and color.

Late January 2022, I received a 23mm STF made by Rudy and the fibre feels a LOT softer. Even with a loft of 50mm, it needs just a little more pressure (versus badger) to splay. My 25mm has a taller loft of about 54 or 55mm, but is far more resistant to splay. I also noticed that the older brush's fiber feels more "plasticky" (for lack of a better word) than the new one's. Am unsure if this is just aging/wear and tear, or if it is how the fibre from almost a decade ago really feels.

I've heard about STF v1 and v2. Others have stated that Muhle have refuted such claims, saying they've made no changes to the material. Anyone here with older and newer STF brushes? Has your experience been similar to mine in any way?

(The old brush still works, but am now curious if the newer 25mm knots are better.)
 
Has anyone noticed a difference in the STF fibre over the years?

My first was a 25mm from RV, circa 2013. Springy for sure and in no way would I mistake its behavior for natural hair. I bought an RV 23mm a year later and that was even more springy. Within days, I sold it to a friend who liked the handle and color.

Late January 2022, I received a 23mm STF made by Rudy and the fibre feels a LOT softer. Even with a loft of 50mm, it needs just a little more pressure (versus badger) to splay. My 25mm has a taller loft of about 54 or 55mm, but is far more resistant to splay. I also noticed that the older brush's fiber feels more "plasticky" (for lack of a better word) than the new one's. Am unsure if this is just aging/wear and tear, or if it is how the fibre from almost a decade ago really feels.

I've heard about STF v1 and v2. Others have stated that Muhle have refuted such claims, saying they've made no changes to the material. Anyone here with older and newer STF brushes? Has your experience been similar to mine in any way?

(The old brush still works, but am now curious if the newer 25mm knots are better.)

My experience tells me there have been 3 distinct STF knots.

There was the original v1 (discontinued in 2012)

The "v1.5" (called v2 by muhle) was softer than v1. This knot I believe ran until muhle introduced the coin for their handles.

After that, the knot was super soft and very easy to splay...not floppy, but actually a very nice, natural splay.

Then there is the dodgy stunt EJ have pulled where they have dropped the stf fibre and switched to the G5A and still referring to it as v2 fibre (which is stf!).

So either one can go for muhle stf which is awesome! Or way over-pay for a G5A knot from EJ!!
 
My experience tells me there have been 3 distinct STF knots.

There was the original v1 (discontinued in 2012)

The "v1.5" (called v2 by muhle) was softer than v1. This knot I believe ran until muhle introduced the coin for their handles.

After that, the knot was super soft and very easy to splay...not floppy, but actually a very nice, natural splay.

That seems to describe what I've seen with my own brushes, I'm thinking my 25mm knot is a "pre-coin" v1.5/v2, and the 23mm is "post-coin." (For lack of a better time frame reference.)

Might be a good enough reason to get a new one.
 
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That seems to describe what I've seen with my own brushes, I'm thinking my 25mm knot is a "pre-coin" v1.5/v2, and the 23mm is "post-coin." (For lack of a better time frame reference.)

Might be a good enough reason to get a new one.

Yah, it sounds like your brushes fit the timeframe for v1.5 and v2.

I have muhle 23mm and 25mm post-coin which are absolutely lovely!

I have 23mm and 25mm EJ STF which I'll keep forever but now I'm totally turned off the ej brands as they didn't even bother to disclose the change of fibre on their site!
 
Excellent choice.

A few minutes after I emailed, he replied and then later in the day, sent me this picture....

IMG_1910.jpg

It's already in the mail. Should be here in two weeks. :)
 
A few minutes after I emailed, he replied and then later in the day, sent me this picture....

View attachment 1422614

It's already in the mail. Should be here in two weeks. :)
Fantastic looking brush. What handle material is that? I really like it. You will definitely enjoy it.

Rudy is super fast when everything is in stock. Great customer service.
 
A few minutes after I emailed, he replied and then later in the day, sent me this picture....

View attachment 1422614

It's already in the mail. Should be here in two weeks. :)

Hmmm
The fibres/knot looks different to the original.
The original STFv2 didn't have such white tips. They were a very light brown and kind of looked like badger hair.

@Rudy Vey
Any insight on this?
Have muhle changed the fibre?
(Like EJ has also done)
 
Hmmm
The fibres/knot looks different to the original.
The original STFv2 didn't have such white tips. They were a very light brown and kind of looked like badger hair.

@Rudy Vey
Any insight on this?
Have muhle changed the fibre?
(Like EJ has also done)
Since I use Muehle STF knots they have always looked the same. Contacted Muehle several years ago about the "versions" discussed on the shaving fora, and they told me several times that there was nothing changed. With using their knots for some 10+ years, I never came across any different looking knot or fibers. The pictures go back to 2012/2013....they look always like the same to me (top is the oldest, the last one is from 2016 and the one in the middle is from 2020). My lights have changed over the years, though
1647100490292.jpeg


1647100549517.jpeg

1647100579152.jpeg
 
Since I use Muehle STF knots they have always looked the same. Contacted Muehle several years ago about the "versions" discussed on the shaving fora, and they told me several times that there was nothing changed. With using their knots for some 10+ years, I never came across any different looking knot or fibers. The pictures go back to 2012/2013....they look always like the same to me (top is the oldest, the last one is from 2016 and the one in the middle is from 2020). My lights have changed over the years, though
View attachment 1422765

View attachment 1422766
View attachment 1422767

Thank you Rudy for this info!

Great to hear Muhle haven't changed their fibre! The STF is by far the best synth on the market and it would be a shame if we lost it!
 
The brush arrived this afternoon. Here are my first thoughts.

7DE5DD15-7CFB-49CF-8695-C38FDEA35AA8.jpeg


The 2013 STF (on the AS3M) is a hybrid/fan shape while the current one is a bulb. Lofts are identical. The new knot flares out wider, with its fiber being much whiter with less sheen. (I can't remember if the fibre on my old brush was just as white when it was new. Am equally unsure if the older fiber is inherently shinier or if this is merely a result of years of use.)

As I had already shaved earlier in the morning with my older brush, I did two test lathers (palm then face) with the new one. It feels a lot softer on my face and splays more easily. So far, the current knot seems to be a definite improvement over my 2013 STF. I'll need a few shaves to further confirm but it's looking very good.
 
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Used it for the majority of the week’s shaves, except yesterday when I used a 23mm STF for comparison.

Versus the old knot, this one seems more densely packed with fibre. Today, it shed one strand. I examined it and it appears to be a loose strand as there was no trace of glue or breakage at the base.

If I had to go back to using just one brush (and thankfully, I don’t), this would be my pick.
 
Used it for the majority of the week’s shaves, except yesterday when I used a 23mm STF for comparison.

Versus the old knot, this one seems more densely packed with fibre. Today, it shed one strand. I examined it and it appears to be a loose strand as there was no trace of glue or breakage at the base.

If I had to go back to using just one brush (and thankfully, I don’t), this would be my pick.
Do you face or bowl lather with these?
 
I got my first Muhle Silvertip Fibre brush in 2014. This is what it looks like.
Muhle Sil Fibre.jpg

Rudy Vey made a brush with the Muhle knot recently.

This is what it looks like.

Rudy Vey Syn.jpg

As @Rudy Vey said, I see no difference in these knots. They feel and perform the same for me.
 
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I can't decide if a 23mm or 25mm might be better for me.
What differences can you guys tell between these two sizes, backbone etc.. if any?
 
I can't decide if a 23mm or 25mm might be better for me.
What differences can you guys tell between these two sizes, backbone etc.. if any?

The biggest difference is density.

The 23mm is a fairly sparse knot, but performs awesomely! No lather slinging, rapid lather generation, excellent splay and flow through.

The 25mm feels like a SHD badger brush...i.e. "wall of badger". It has stronger face feel and it's more responsive to pressure so can be fine tuned to your preference, whereas the 23mm will splay more readily, leaving less control over the amount of splay.

I have and love both sizes but if you can get just one, I'd go the 25mm for its very unique experience.
 
The biggest difference is density.

The 23mm is a fairly sparse knot, but performs awesomely! No lather slinging, rapid lather generation, excellent splay and flow through.

The 25mm feels like a SHD badger brush...i.e. "wall of badger". It has stronger face feel and it's more responsive to pressure so can be fine tuned to your preference, whereas the 23mm will splay more readily, leaving less control over the amount of splay.

I have and love both sizes but if you can get just one, I'd go the 25mm for its very unique experience.
I appreciate the reply Nav.
 
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Do you face or bowl lather with these?

I face lather most of the time but with the older brush, I did both. It was the brush that I learned to bowl lather with and after two or three years, I moved to face lathering.

I have yet to try bowl lathering with the new one.

The biggest difference is density.

I have and love both sizes but if you can get just one, I'd go the 25mm for its very unique experience.

I also have both sizes (current generation STF) and share nav's opinion. I'm glad that I got the 23 before the 25 because otherwise, the 23 would have felt underwhelming. Unless you really need a smaller brush, I'd skip the 23mm. Price gap between the 2 sizes is not drastic but the performance difference is, IMHO.
 
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