Differences in 89 style heads

[WVShaver]

Hey guys, fairly new to DE shaving and after trying about a dozen or so different razors my favorite at the moment is the 89 style head. But I have found some variation in them and figured I would get your guys input.

My first was a new Muhle R89 which is a great shaver, and I found works even better with 1 shim. I then tested out a relatives EJ89 which cut just as smooth as my R89 but cut even closer and was near perfection. So I purchased a EJ89 from a member here and found it similar to my R89 instead of the other EJ89 I had borrowed. Luckily that member tossed in a free 89 style head that he believed was an R89 that cut even better then my uncles EJ89.

So I was curious why some cut better then others and tried to take some measurements with calipers. The random 89 head that cuts the best has the narrowest top cap of around .735", my uncles EJ89 is .750", my EJ89 is .757", my R89 is .761". I also tried my best to measure the gap with the calipers but that is nearly impossible and I don't have any gauges to get an accurate reading but my best guess is around .475" gap on the random 89, .465" on my uncles EJ, .420" on my EJ, and .41" on my R89.

My uncles EJ is likely an older one, the one I purchased here is around 2017 vintage and my R89 is around 2021. I have no idea the date of the random 89 head I have, or if it is indeed an R89. So my question is, has anyone else ever noticed these differences and if so did they change the EJ89 and R89 after the first few years to make them less aggressive?

 

[StewB]

I don't know the answer but I'm definitely curious!

 

[cf1]

I'm curious myself. I had an R89 and it was just too mild. Was thinking of trying an EJ89 and i heard they are a bit more efficient.

 

[StewB]

Also, there seem to be a number of clones of the DE89/R89 design. Some examples that come to mind: West Coast Shaving, Gillette Heritage, King C. Gillette, etc. It might be hard to get a definitive answer.

 

[flash75]

The de89/r89 have been develped together by mühle and ej. Slight differences might only result in manufacturing process. Never heard of any updates in head geometry.


The clones are clones, might look similar but shave different.

 

[WVShaver]

Thanks for the input, I look forward to more input from those with experience on the 89 heads. This head design just seems to be the sweet spot for me with slightly coarse hair & slightly sensitive skin.

If you take calipers to the heads you can clearly see there are differences based on when they were made, at least for the EJ. My DE89 is circa 2017 and very similar to my 2021 R89, but my uncles DE89 is older then 2017 and far more efficient. It honestly feels just as smooth but it cuts closer. The top cap is narrower and it has a slightly wider gap to it. So my understanding is a narrower top cap & more gap make it more efficient.

This really makes me want to try out a EJ 3one6 if they didn't cost so much. I have a feeling it is a similar design as the 89 but slightly more efficient. I am not into aggressive razors like the R41, nor any razor with lots of blade feel. I love the fact I don't feel the blade at all on the 89s.

 

[WVShaver]

Forgot to mention, I borrowed a Gillette King C to test for a couple shaves as well and felt it more mild then even my R89. It was an OK razor but not as nice as the other 89s I tested. That was before I measured anything, but I will try to get my hands on it again and take some measurements. Perhaps get some real gauges to test the gap of these accurately as well.

If anyone has a really old R89 or DE89 laying around with a set of calipers, feel free to contribute to the data.

 

[BigJ]

The de89/r89 have been develped together by mühle and ej. Slight differences might only result in manufacturing process. Never heard of any updates in head geometry.


The clones are clones, might look similar but shave different.

+1! This is also my understanding! However, I cannot say that I have tried all/most of these.

 

[Invicta]

This really makes me want to try out a EJ 3one6 if they didn't cost so much. I have a feeling it is a similar design as the 89 but slightly more efficient.

The EJ 3ONE6 is a completely different design with a large blade gap (~1.3mm) and possibly positive blade eposure. It is much more aggressive than the DE89. It is cast using the MIM process.

Forgot to mention, I borrowed a Gillette King C to test for a couple shaves as well and felt it more mild then even my R89. It was an OK razor but not as nice as the other 89s I tested.

The KCG razor uses a Muhle cap and the plate is made in China but Gillette have remained tight lipped on confirming the source of the plate.

Other factors to consider are difference in moulds because you will not get the same accuracy as a CNC machined razor. Cast razors will have a range of differences, even from the same mould. The DE89 was designed in 2008 Muhle and Edwin Jagger must have gone through a few moulds in the last 14 years.
The narrower caps will give a little more blade exposure but not significantly so. If you want a little more aggression in the DE89 try a shim and you will notice a difference.
The standard bladse gap is ~ -.028" or ~ 0.72mm

 

[flash75]

IMHO you should try a Rockwell 6s. It's smooth and adjustable in sex levels.
The de89 is somewhat fitting level 3-4 on the Rockwell.
Yes it is another razor, another head design but it should be a better option than trying to find differences in de/r89 razors.

 

[Shavingeveryday]

I’ve used a r89 based razor for a while (Muhle Rytmo) and although super smooth, it wasn’t very efficient… even with feather blades. ( I do have a heavy beard though) So I researched a bit, and settled on an Executive Shaving Outlaw head to put on my Rytmo handle. Similar design, but wider gap. It’s fantastic. As smooth as the 89 but way more efficient and with a Personna blade, it’s perfect for me. All stainless too. Not cheap at £70 for just the head, but will last a couple of lifetimes.

 

[WVShaver]

The EJ 3ONE6 is a completely different design with a large blade gap (~1.3mm) and possibly positive blade eposure. It is much more aggressive than the DE89. It is cast using the MIM process.

The KCG razor uses a Muhle cap and the plate is made in China but Gillette have remained tight lipped on confirming the source of the plate.

Other factors to consider are difference in moulds because you will not get the same accuracy as a CNC machined razor. Cast razors will have a range of differences, even from the same mould. The DE89 was designed in 2008 Muhle and Edwin Jagger must have gone through a few moulds in the last 14 years.
The narrower caps will give a little more blade exposure but not significantly so. If you want a little more aggression in the DE89 try a shim and you will notice a difference.
The standard bladse gap is ~ -.028" or ~ 0.72mm

This is all great information. Sad to hear the 3one6 may have positive blade exposure and is of a different design. I expected as much on the moulds, it just seems like quite a big difference between the ones I have. They are all super smooth shavers with no blade feel but the ones with a wider gap & narrower cap cut noticabley closer for me. My first 89 was a new R89 and I used 1 shim in it quite a bit and it was almost as good with a shim as my uncles old DE89, but still not quite as efficient.

Flash75, I actually have a Rockwell 6c I picked up cheap. I don't have many shaves on it but agree it has real potential. I really like plate 4 and believe it is my second smoothest razor right after the 89 series. I have only tried the Astra SP in it so far which is what I typically use in everything. After trying many blades and still trying new ones the Astra SP has remained number 1 and the GSB being very close for me.

Shavingeveryday, Thanks for that recommendation. I will be looking into the outlaw for sure.

 

[ivan_101]

Hey guys, fairly new to DE shaving and after trying about a dozen or so different razors my favorite at the moment is the 89 style head. But I have found some variation in them and figured I would get your guys input.

My first was a new Muhle R89 which is a great shaver, and I found works even better with 1 shim. I then tested out a relatives EJ89 which cut just as smooth as my R89 but cut even closer and was near perfection. So I purchased a EJ89 from a member here and found it similar to my R89 instead of the other EJ89 I had borrowed. Luckily that member tossed in a free 89 style head that he believed was an R89 that cut even better then my uncles EJ89.

So I was curious why some cut better then others and tried to take some measurements with calipers. The random 89 head that cuts the best has the narrowest top cap of around .735", my uncles EJ89 is .750", my EJ89 is .757", my R89 is .761". I also tried my best to measure the gap with the calipers but that is nearly impossible and I don't have any gauges to get an accurate reading but my best guess is around .475" gap on the random 89, .465" on my uncles EJ, .420" on my EJ, and .41" on my R89.

My uncles EJ is likely an older one, the one I purchased here is around 2017 vintage and my R89 is around 2021. I have no idea the date of the random 89 head I have, or if it is indeed an R89. So my question is, has anyone else ever noticed these differences and if so did they change the EJ89 and R89 after the first few years to make them less aggressive?

Are you 100% sure all your heads are indeed Muhle or EJ? Especially that thing about "a free 89 style head that he believed was an R89 that cut even better then my uncles EJ89". Because many companies manufacture visually the same head, but with different gaps and exposure. I have had numerous Indian, Pakistani and Chinese ones. The variation of those 2 parameters is huge. The Yaqi made ones have bigger exposure for instance.

The Edwin Jagger heads should have their logo stamped on the top side of the bottom plate. The Muhle R89 head is not that easy to identify.

 

[WVShaver]

No, I am not sure if it is a true R89 that's why I mentioned it was random. And the newer R89s are fairly easy to tell apart because they have casting numbers on them. I believe mine has a number 4 cast into the head, but I'd have to double check.

And not all EJ's have the logo on them. My circa 2017 one does, but my uncles that is older does not have the logo. That is something else I noticed right away, and started looking at pictures of them online and have seen quite a few with and without logos. I don't know if all of the newer ones have logos or not, but would assume they started doing it sometime between 2008-2017.

Even though his EJ isn't quite as efficient as that random 89 head I have it is very close and much more then my EJ89 and R89. So there is obviously some variation in the heads or they were changed at some point to be slightly less aggressive. I wish I had another older EJ89 to compare them with.

I will look into the Yaqi ones. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Invicta]

The Edwin Jagger heads should have their logo stamped on the top side of the bottom plate.

My EJ DE89 has no markings on the plate or cap and was purchased circa 2012. The name Edwin Jagger is engraved on the handle and it came in an Edwin Jagger box. The newer moulds may have the logo on them which I expect that was partly due to the abundance of copies being produced.

 

[ivan_101]

My EJ DE89 has no markings on the plate or cap and was purchased circa 2012. The name Edwin Jagger is engraved on the handle and it came in an Edwin Jagger box. The newer moulds may have the logo on them which I expect that was partly due to the abundance of copies being produced.

My logo DE89 is newer than yours, probably 2019. Can't remember exactly.

 

[ivan_101]

I will look into the Yaqi ones. Thanks for the tip.

The Yaqi head is one of my favourites. I have 3-4 razors and bought at least 10 spare heads. Much prefer it to the EJ, because of the significantly closer shave.

 

[WVShaver]

My EJ DE89 has no markings on the plate or cap and was purchased circa 2012. The name Edwin Jagger is engraved on the handle and it came in an Edwin Jagger box. The newer moulds may have the logo on them which I expect that was partly due to the abundance of copies being produced.

The same as my uncles. I wonder if yours has the narrower top cap & wider gap as well. After looking around the bay and other places I have found countless 89 style heads and would like to try a few of them to find one similar to the random one I have so I can have a couple spares. With the quality of the Zamak heads I know it won't last forever. My uncles DE89 already has quite a bit of wear on it from years of use.

 

[WVShaver]

The Yaqi head is one of my favourites. I have 3-4 razors and bought at least 10 spare heads. Much prefer it to the EJ, because of the significantly closer shave.

I am guessing it is the SC head like this one? - Link at Wet Shaving Co

So for you it shaves very similar to the DE89 just a little more efficient? That is my experience so far with the 89s that have a narrower top cap & wider gap. I notice no extra irritation or anything, just a closer shave. Most other razor types are more likely to give me some irritation.

 

[ivan_101]

I am guessing it is the SC head like this one? - Link at Wet Shaving Co

So for you it shaves very similar to the DE89 just a little more efficient? That is my experience so far with the 89s that have a narrower top cap & wider gap. I notice no extra irritation or anything, just a closer shave. Most other razor types are more likely to give me some irritation.

Yes, it is that head. But I buy them on Aliexpress from factory store. The Yaqi factory calls them scalloped heads.
The shave is not very similar to DE89. For me it is much better. More aggressive. The head has much more exposure and gives me the shave I need with my super tough whiskers.