Developing your nose?

[wolfrb]

How do you guys do it?
I have always been blessed and cursed with what I think is a good sniffer.
But in terms of defining certain scents within fragrances, not so much.
I seem to just have a sliding scale from horrible to great.
I read all these great reviews with all these different notes within frags and wonder how you know what they are. Do you look at the different notes listed and go from there? For example what does oakmoss or ambergis smell like.
I'm curious what everyone has to say.

 

[vertigo12314]

When you sample lots and look at fragrance notes to compare you naturally get better.

 

[Evbo]

For me, I've been smelling lots of essential oils, absolutes, concretes ... it's been very educational. It also doesn't hurt that I have a friend who owns virtually every oil / absolute / concrete under the sun. I've learned a lot just by sniffing her stuff.

...ok, that came out kinda wrong. But you know what I mean.

 

[The Knize]

Good question, and I wanted to convey that I am not ignoring it. To tell you what I have "tried" to do--I do not know that my nose is all that good yet and I know some days it is better than other days which always "feels" bizarre and a little scary--is a long post.

First of all, I should say that it is a difficult task to pick out individual notes, at least for me, and to smell scents absolutely blind, with no notes whatever to guide one, is remarkably tough. Also, I find that sniffing a particular scent on multiple occasions often helps a lot. Sometimes after sniffing something on multiple occasions, component notes suddenly just seem to pop out from the background. Like one of those kids picture puzzles where you let your vision go fuzzy and eventually a picture emerges from the multi-colored background.

Go to a health food store or wholefoods and sniff the samples of essential oils to learn what some individual notes smell like.

Search the web and other sources to find out what individual notes smell like, then in sniffing scents read others' notes about them and try to apply what you have read. You will need to go back and forth I am sure. I do not remember what oakmoss smells like off the top of my head for instance. It is a base ingredient. When other notes have faded away if it is in the base, it is what is left.

Similarly, when you recognize certain elements, what is left are the other elements on the list, not that the lists are very accurate many time. So it you can sort out lemon in the top notes, and neroli is the other note listed, what you smell is neroli. Once you learn neroli, you can pick that out and see what is left.

Other smells are not really specific ingredients. Leather and tobacco are not generally made from those products. If it smells like leather to you, it is leather.

BTW, do not expect scent vanilla to smell like baking vanilla. It is different. More floral perhaps. Maybe a bit earthy.

Lavender is not floral like other flowers are floral. It is genrally very sharp.

Geranium smells more like rose than rose does. Notes are complex. Pure rose is filled with different notes all by itself. Look at the notes listed for C&S Rose sometime. It smells like pure tea rose to me but it is loaded with other stuff to get to a rose scent.

Sandalwood smells very different based largely on species, I am guessing.

Hope that helps. Just keep sniffing, reading, and posting. Talking back and forth among other folks doing what you are doing will help you and them!

Want to really force yourself to focus? Have someone send you numbered unidentified scents blind. Then try to describe them back to that person out of numerical order until they can id the scent by the bottle number. Then you try to id the scent by name. If you get really stuck have them tell you somthing about the scent or scents but not the name. If really stuck they can give you the list of names, and you can try to id scent to number. As you go along you can be checking scent descriptions and the like to help you. Credit to jakespoppy for developing this approach. Nothing like a blind "tasting" to force one to focus!

Best of luck. We are all here to help. All though at the end of the day, all noses are a bit different. Sense of smell is not like eye sight in that respect!

 

[The Knize]

This is topic close to my heart, so forgive me for going on and on.


I thought I would add a "teaching" example:

You asked specifically what ambergis smells like? According to Wikipedia,

"Freshly produced ambergris has a marine, fecal odor. However, as it ages, it acquires a sweet, earthy scent commonly likened to the fragrance of rubbing alcohol without the vaporous chemical astringency."

As Wikipedia notes, however, the chances of natural ambergis being in a modern scent is pretty remote. What is there are synthetic versions. Moreover, ambergis is used as a fixative in scents as much as for its scent qualities, probably more. I suspect modern synthetic ambergis come in all sorts of types with all sorts of different scent profiles. It is a basenote.

But as a note, Creed is famous for having lots of ambergis. If you test out a lot of different Creeds, and I hope you do for lots of reasons, a major part of the "theme" that ties them all together is ambergis. If you can sort out in your mind what seems the same across many, many Creeds, that will give you a good idea of what ambergis, at least in the modern context, smells like.

I do not know whether this really contradicts Wikidpedia's description or not, but I would say that ambergis always "retains" a marine, fecal odor, a funk, or dirtiness.

 

[vertigo12314]

I do not know whether this really contradicts Wikidpedia's description or not, but I would say that ambergis always "retains" a marine, fecal odor, a funk, or dirtiness.

Yeah just like my recent encounter with GIT. The ambergris made the florals smell more like outdoors near a farm. It can give it a pastoral scent depending on what it's mixed with.

 

[Evbo]

I do not know whether this really contradicts Wikidpedia's description or not, but I would say that ambergis always "retains" a marine, fecal odor, a funk, or dirtiness.

Actually, there are different degrees (degris? ) of ambergris. The fecal, dirty stuff is black ambergris. It even LOOKS like, uh, what it smells like.

White ambergris, however, is an entirely different animal. It still has a distinctly marine, salty character, but it's much sweeter. All of the funk is gone. It's actually quite beautiful. Recently, I was fortunate enough to be able to smell an incense that was composed of white ambergris & oud, and it was incredible.

From what I've been told, ambergris is used in perfumery kind of like MSG in Chinese food. It tends to enhance & "bring out" the other scents in a blend. Hopefully I'll be able to find this out for myself sometime in the next few months -- I have some tincture of white ambergris coming to me. Very curious to see what it's like!

 

[The Knize]

Excellent comments evbo and vertigo!

Evan, you are talking honest to goodness natural ambergis?! Wow, I am confident I have never ever smelled natural ambergis! I am amazed it can actually be obtained by folks like you and me. Most cost a fortune!

The MSG analogy is probably a very good one, for what I have read.

I suppose the other thing is that notes can combine in ways that come out quite different than the underlying notes. I cannot think of a great example, but in those cases, there is no way to separate out what those ingredients are based on what the individual elements smell like. Of course, you might know from experiences how the perfume maker got there.

"Fern" is a famous scent, for instance. But natural fern has no scent at all, I think I have read. And what we thing of as the fern scent or fougere, is really, if I recall, lavender, oakmoss, and something else I am not remembering. But I doubt there are many of us would have been able to pick out lavender, etc., on first smelling fougere!

 

[mretzloff]

For me, I've been smelling lots of essential oils, absolutes, concretes ... it's been very educational. It also doesn't hurt that I have a friend who owns virtually every oil / absolute / concrete under the sun. I've learned a lot just by sniffing her stuff.

...ok, that came out kinda wrong. But you know what I mean.

Ah, I envy you. Is your friend an aromatherapist?

 

[Evbo]

Evan, you are talking honest to goodness natural ambergis?! Wow, I am confident I have never ever smelled natural ambergis! I am amazed it can actually be obtained by folks like you and me. Most cost a fortune!

Yeah, I'm talking about the Real Deal. What can I say ... I'm a snob purist. It's the same reason I like QED's soaps so much -- they're scented with real EOs.

Real ambergris can still be purchased legally. I'm not sure how much this tincture I'm expecting will cost. It's still being made, and probably won't be ready for months. I'll find out sooner or later. It won't be cheap, but since I've gotten into ouds the word "expensive" has taken on a whole new meaning. In that light, I'm betting that the cost of this tincture will be much more palatable.

 

[rickboone1]

I just smell it and make up a load of junk. Makes me sound good at least.

 

[Evbo]

Ah, I envy you. Is your friend an aromatherapist?

No, she's not. Nor is she a perfumer. Yet her knowledge of & experience with various EOs, ouds, absolutes, concretes, etc. is vast. I've learned, and continue to learn, a lot from her. Her stash of materials is absolutely enormous. If she wasn't so self-effacing about her knowledge and had a bit more confidence, I'm convinced she'd be a brilliant perfumer.

 

[mretzloff]

No, she's not. Nor is she a perfumer. Yet her knowledge of & experience with various EOs, ouds, absolutes, concretes, etc. is vast. I've learned, and continue to learn, a lot from her. Her stash of materials is absolutely enormous. If she wasn't so self-effacing about her knowledge and had a bit more confidence, I'm convinced she'd be a brilliant perfumer.

Well, my hat goes off to her. That is impressive. Scents are such an amazing thing.

 

[Alraz]

I am a chemist, beer judge and have been known to play essential oils as well. The key to both is to smell the pure components and in mixes. In beer judging, for instance, there are kits that contain the compounds responsible for some of the typical off aromas and flavors in beer. You basically mix them with a bland beer and start sniffing. I know a guy that can distinguish beers, not just the style, with a small whiff and a sip...

It it more complicated with scents because the playing field is wider and because the oils saturate your receptors faster as you smell them in higher concentration. Some components of the oils have lower threshold, and some people cannot detect some scents because they either do not have the proper receptors or they do not have too many of them. However, the key is to associate a particular smell with your perception of it, sort of like when you were a kid and wondered if everybody called blue what you called blue. It does no matter it if really is blue as long as you call blue what other people call blue. You make a picture in your head of what every oil natural or not smells like.

Needless to say that it is not easy and some people pay more attention to smells than others and as I said, there is the sensitivity issue. In addition, when oils are blended, especially by pros, it is really hard to detect every note in them as they hit you like a train but you can certainly pick up some. The more you train the better you will get.

Al raz.

How do you guys do it?
I have always been blessed and cursed with what I think is a good sniffer.
But in terms of defining certain scents within fragrances, not so much.
I seem to just have a sliding scale from horrible to great.
I read all these great reviews with all these different notes within frags and wonder how you know what they are. Do you look at the different notes listed and go from there? For example what does oakmoss or ambergis smell like.
I'm curious what everyone has to say.

 

[Evbo]

In addition, when oils are blended, especially by pros, it is really hard to detect every note in them as they hit you like a train but you can certainly pick up some. The more you train the better you will get.

True. Single notes are blended into chords, and then various chords are blended together with other chords and/or single notes. So yeah, it's all about the composite, the synergy the perfumer has created.

 

[Sparafucile]

IMO, Google or search Amazon for books written by or about Luca Turin; they are a great intro to the world of fragrance and the mechanics of "smell" without getting deeply scientific. And they're enjoyable!

 

[The Knize]

All of the additional comments are great! No question that Luca Turin's stuff is good, particularly the Encyclopdia of Perfumes or whatever is called. Chandler Burr is good, too, but I personally do not agree with him as often as do LT, and I surely do not always agree with LT and his wife. Lots of sources of specific notes for scents and discussions of particular ingredients/notes on the web.

I find scents vastly more difficult than beers and spirits and even wines. Alraz' comments are right on, though. Having an enormous store house of EOs would be a great source of experience and knowledge. One thing I find is that even outside of sandalwood and its various species, most scents can smell vastly differently, for want of a better word, brand to brand.

Heck, smell scented soaps. Sandalwood and jasmine scented soaps spring to mind. Incense and candles, for that matter. Be aware, however, that most scents are not soliflore, so to speak, that is, uni-note. Most sandalwood scents have lots of other ingredients. All vetivers scents seem to!

Smell and remember herbs and spices--cinammon (real cinammon and whatever it is we usualy use instead in the States), coriander, cumin, basil, rosemary, saffron, pepper (red and black), mint, etc. Smell flowers--lilac, rose, lavender, violets, honey suckle, any and all. Dried and fresh. Woods: freshly sharpened pencils, new furniture, pine trees, oak planks, paneling! Saw dust. Smell tires, tar, tobacco, tobacco ash, and leather furniture. Chocolate, coffee, almonds, and other kinds of nuts. Jams and jellies, currents and raisens. Rum. Honey, molasses. Peaches, apples, plums, and apricots. Dust. Old books. Concrete. Slate and other rocks and minerals. Alcohols. Petrol based liquids. Plastics. Leaves, mulch, old leaves, barnyards! Wet dogs. Sweat-soaked humans. Babies! Burning leaves.

They all come up eventually in scents! You should have a memories of all sorts of smells to be able to draw on, at least for analogies to what you are smelling. To have a word for something it often to own the concept. Words inherently increase and give detail to knowledge.

You have probably heard enough from me for now!

 

[Evbo]

IMO, Google or search Amazon for books written by or about Luca Turin; they are a great intro to the world of fragrance and the mechanics of "smell" without getting deeply scientific. And they're enjoyable!

Haven't read Luca Turin, tho I've certainly heard enough about him.

Anyone who's interested in natural perfumery would do well to check out Mandy Aftel's book Essence and Alchemy: A Natural History of Perfume. Mandy Aftel is the nose behind aftelier.com, and she writes beautifully about the history & process of botanical perfumery. She also includes recipes to make your own blends. It's a good resource!

 

[Master-Classter]

I'll jsut throw in my 2 cents. What I've done is

1. Smell a lot, I mean like take every opportunity to start smelling everything around you all the time and think about and try to remember those smells. When you're walking, when you go to a store, when you're eating, etc. I also spend weekends just sniffing around the perfume stores a lot and I sample new something almost every day.

2. Build a reference library, either by getting a few EO's or what I've done is tried to find the "reference" version of X, like a certain note or style of fragrance. Then I get samples of others in the same genre and compare and contrast them all back to back until I have 2-3 bottles and 5-10 samples/decants of say Vetiver. Then I know what Vetiver/X smells like and can often pick it out of other frags from then on.

 

[Featherweight]

I've found that a good way to train my nose is to start with the simple stuff and build up to more complex scents. For example, Caron for men is a really basic scent of lavender and vanilla. The lavender is up front; the vanilla explodes forward in the drydown - but the lavender never really disappears. From there, another good one to try is Kouros. If you know what clove smells like, it will give you a center of focus for that scent. Sniff it and you'll see there's a bright citrus on top, a sweetened clove note in the middle, and lots of other good stuff as well! (Ever smell civet? )

IMO, Google or search Amazon for books written by or about Luca Turin; they are a great intro to the world of fragrance and the mechanics of "smell" without getting deeply scientific. And they're enjoyable!

I agree that you'd be well served to read some of Turin's stuff. However, I wouldn't put too much stock into his opinions. His love of certain scents seems off-kilter to me given the context that he places himself in. Beyond Paradise & Tommy Girl - masterpieces? Cool Water - 5 stars (GIT gets 4)? This is only my opinion so it does not count for much of anything, but I don't get a lot of his ratings. He ended his blog several years ago to devote attention to his website, which never materialized and leads to a parked GoDaddy URL. His theory that scent molecules "vibrate" to communicate to our brains what we're smelling has been rejected by the scientific community and only accepted in some small circles. That he is a scientist himself seems to be the leg he stands on. Not saying that he's a hack. Just that he's inconsistent and his authority in the arena of perfumery is surely trumped by the very noses who create the products he criticizes. I wonder if Jacques Polge and the Creed boys would give him a beat down if they had him alone? I can see it now:

Olivier Creed: So, Green Irish Tweed is our only successful fragrance, eh?

LT: Eh, yeah . . . about that . . .

Erwin Creed: I've got him, dad! Hit him with Original Vetiver!

Olivier spritzes some OV on Turin's shirt.

LT: You know, on second thought, that one's nice, too.

Olivier: Yeah, yeah, right. I thought so.

...