Determining hone wear? Size of NOS razors?

[TortieShave]

Greets!

I have seen factory new 6/8 referred to as 20 mm.

Now, knowing that old razors were varied in size does not tell me if a new razor should be 19 or 20 mm?

For reference, I am trying to determine how honed my Heljestrands have been, as they now measure about 18mm each-light enough if 19 mm NOS, but moderate if they started at 20.

As near wedges, it is not as easy to use the profile of the blade in spotting hone wear based on missing blade width vs the grind itself.

Pics attached for help, kind thanks and salutations gents!

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Greets!

I have seen factory new 6/8 referred to as 20 mm.

Now, knowing that old razors were varied in size does not tell me if a new razor should be 19 or 20 mm?

For reference, I am trying to determine how honed my Heljestrands have been, as they now measure about 18mm each-light enough if 19 mm NOS, but moderate if they started at 20.

As near wedges, it is not as easy to use the profile of the blade in spotting hone wear based on missing blade width vs the grind itself.

Pics attached for help, kind thanks and salutations gents!

With Heljestrands, the absolute width seems to have varied slightly especially on the larger models. You can get a little bit of an idea from the heel, however. Especially on the quarter hollows, the final curve back to the stabilizer didn't have a factory bevel. The more the razor is honed, the shorter that unhoned area will get. This isn't foolproof of course, because a competent honer will grind the heel forward a little once the edge starts to meet up with the stabilizer (although this is pretty obvious on a quarter hollow because the finish will look different on the back of the heel). Also their full hollows, especially the MK 30-33 series were ground a little differently so the unbeveled part of the heel is shorter and a lot less obvious. So you have to kind of take it all together, the spine wear, the width of the blade, and the condition of the bevel at the toe and the heel.

Here is a photo of an MK 24 that I believe was legitimately NOS when I got it. The red line shows the area that didn't have a factory bevel.

Now, having said that, I can't see from your photo if that straight area at the heel has been honed into or not, but it does look like the toe has a little more wear. None of that is a big deal in my opinion, the overall shape is pretty consistent with what you'd expect it to look like and it ought to be a great shaver regardless. Razors were made to be honed, after all.

 

[TortieShave]

Thanks for that, I'm going to use them anyway, but waiting for honemeister-I've got very minimal practice

 

[TortieShave]

Correction-they are 11/16, not the early 6/8 size.

Looking closely and measuring carefully there is not too much wear, the razors measuring about 17 mm, meaning they started at 17.5 mm.

Thanks @Darth Scandalous and also @Polarbeard

May your shaves stay sharp

 

[HazMat Shaver]

Darth pretty much covered it. Nice answer to the question.
Your picture is a little fuzzy at the spine so hone ware is hard to see at that point but the toe does show a little.

When restoring razors one of the first steps is to correct the heal as new honers or people who don't care/know, just grind the heal/stabilizer or try to hone the stabilizer. It's a big "Tell". You haven't been too rough yet. Honing takes time to learn. Just learn on low-cost razors first! That sweed if hard stuff. Learn with American or English razors. American is ground nice and English is softer.

 

[TortieShave]

Lol @HazMat Shaver I would never try to hone these-my experience so far is one bevel-set Gold Dollar 66. Took a looong time

These are as I received them, so I'm very happy they have rather minimal wear.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

Good to hear.
So many guys want to learn to hone on their good razors. Or on junk razors that have problems to start with.
When you are ready to learn pick up a few early 1900s American razors to learn with. The grinding and steel are much more of what someone should learn with.

 

[Rosseforp]

Lol @HazMat Shaver I would never try to hone these-my experience so far is one bevel-set Gold Dollar 66. Took a looong time

Gold Dollar's are HARD!

When you are ready to learn pick up a few early 1900s American razors to learn with.

Geneva's are nice to learn on.

Do you have any stones yet @TortieShave ?

~doug~

 

[TortieShave]

@Rosseforp I've got the standard Naniwa 1k fir bevel, and a nice coti, double-sided old mine stock

I just asked for it'd ID in the hone section, pics attached if ya want a gander

 

[Rosseforp]

@Rosseforp I've got the standard Naniwa 1k fir bevel, and a nice coti, double-sided old mine stock

I just asked for it'd ID in the hone section, pics attached if ya want a gander

Actually, the back side of your cot is just the slate that it is glued to, as they are too brittle on their own. I would recommend that you get a coticule slurry stone, and check out the coticule.be website for some really useful knowledge on cots!

~doug~

 

[TortieShave]

@Rosseforp Ah, okay, having gone off what I was told the stone looked "blue enough", I never would have suspected that was a glue line-where?

I've got a slurry stone, seen the coti site, but what is my stone I wonder?

 

[HazMat Shaver]

Good luck with a coti. I have tried a few myself and have had others hone a coti edge for me but Ive never found one keen enough to shave with IMO.

Some people like them. YMMV as they say.

 

[Tomo]

I always look at how much blade is left in front of the stabilizer. Yours looks pretty fresh.

 

[TortieShave]

Yep @Tomo 17 mm or so left of 17.5, I incorrectly thought it a 6/8, but it is indeed a 11/16 when I initially saw it with brained "turned off"

@HazMat Shaver Very sensitive skin here, the coti gives a smooth, very soft edge that more or less cannot grab the skin to cut it... very mellow

 

[Rosseforp]

@Rosseforp Ah, okay, having gone off what I was told the stone looked "blue enough", I never would have suspected that was a glue line-where?

I've got a slurry stone, seen the coti site, but what is my stone I wonder?

@TortieShave , as far as I know there is only one coticule mine currently in operation, Ardennes. Belgian Blue stones are mined along with coticule stones and the blue you are referring to is probably just a vein that is running through your coticule.
Coticules do seem to vary considerably in how fast or slow they are, it is the slurry that really does the cutting. Some coti's will auto slurry, and some won't. That is why I always use a coticule slurry stone, just to be sure I get all the garnets I can in the slurry.
The main difference between the two stones is that Belgian Blue stones have less garnet and cut slower, some people feel they can produce a finer edge than a coticule. I'm no expert and have never used a Belgian Blue, so this is about all that I can offer you.

Maybe @SliceOfLife can chip in?

~doug~

 

[TortieShave]

Helpful replies from other thread confirm the lovely rock as old mine Vienette/BBW combo.

If no other words on Heljis, I think we can stop derailing this now, though it is fun

 

[TortieShave]

One more question on this please.

I assume when honing that correct procedure is to hone the full edge, including the untouched end near the heel, and that is likely the reason why mine were honed wrong by the previous honer (the toe end has heavy pressure wear on the inner seams of the spine and edge, at a crooked angle).

If you don't mind @Polarbeard?

Or anyone else in the know

Thanks

 

[TortieShave]

Bump for @Polarbeard, of if any other responses on question just above this one, much thanks

 

[Rosseforp]

One more question on this please.

I assume when honing that correct procedure is to hone the full edge, including the untouched end near the heel, and that is likely the reason why mine were honed wrong by the previous honer (the toe end has heavy pressure wear on the inner seams of the spine and edge, at a crooked angle).

If you don't mind @Polarbeard?

Or anyone else in the know

Thanks

Could be a slightly wonky razor, or just a bit of heavy handed honing. I've seen much worse.

~doug~