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Defensive Weapons

When it comes to bugging in, or bugging out, I think we all might have the wrong mindsets. When I lived in Kingston Jamaica in 1980, things were pretty wild (violent - especially at night), but neighborhoods came together and fortified. I lived through a hurricane there as well, and the same thing happened, neighborhoods clambered together to survive. We slept at the house that still had a roof, ate at the guy who’s generator still had gas and was powering the fridges we pooled our food in.

When I lived in Toronto and the power went out for 5 days, we all came together In the hood. Tornadoes in Kansas, we all helped out until we found everyone.

I guess my point is, I don’t know if S really HTF, if it would look like Hollywoods version, or as singular as we sometime envision.

At the end of the day, we are a pack animal. Bugging in seems way more likely is what I’m saying.

Making yourself relevant and making sure you can protect you and yours for a couple days maybe is key, but I don’t see as much mass movement some people envision save a natural disaster - in which case, I think most people would group together to ensure overall safety.

Today I know many of my right leaning friends are terrified of some kind of race war. That would be different I suppose. Some are even yapping on about a civil war. But what would either of those things really look like if they ever occurred - which I highly doubt? I can’t imagine in this country (USA) that that would last for more than 12 - 24 hours before we all went back into our corners.

I don’t know, humans are horrible creatures at times, but I just don’t see them being horrible for too long short of an invasion and years of occupation. Hence, I have enough to bug out at home and a couple of bug out bags that’ll keep me squared away in the country if need be. After that, I’m sure it’d be over.

Well, that’s my take anyway. I could be wrong. Probably am.
 

FarmerTan

George Bailey Fanboy
When it comes to bugging in, or bugging out, I think we all might have the wrong mindsets. When I lived in Kingston Jamaica in 1980, things were pretty wild (violent - especially at night), but neighborhoods came together and fortified. I lived through a hurricane there as well, and the same thing happened, neighborhoods clambered together to survive. We slept at the house that still had a roof, ate at the guy who’s generator still had gas and was powering the fridges we pooled our food in.

When I lived in Toronto and the power went out for 5 days, we all came together In the hood. Tornadoes in Kansas, we all helped out until we found everyone.

I guess my point is, I don’t know if S really HTF, if it would look like Hollywoods version, or as singular as we sometime envision.

At the end of the day, we are a pack animal. Bugging in seems way more likely is what I’m saying.

Making yourself relevant and making sure you can protect you and yours for a couple days maybe is key, but I don’t see as much mass movement some people envision save a natural disaster - in which case, I think most people would group together to ensure overall safety.

Today I know many of my right leaning friends are terrified of some kind of race war. That would be different I suppose. Some are even yapping on about a civil war. But what would either of those things really look like if they ever occurred - which I highly doubt? I can’t imagine in this country (USA) that that would last for more than 12 - 24 hours before we all went back into our corners.

I don’t know, humans are horrible creatures at times, but I just don’t see them being horrible for too long short of an invasion and years of occupation. Hence, I have enough to bug out at home and a couple of bug out bags that’ll keep me squared away in the country if need be. After that, I’m sure it’d be over.

Well, that’s my take anyway. I could be wrong. Probably am.
You might be 100% right. You might be 100% wrong. Pray we never find out!

I'm an RN and a haircutter. I got marketable skills in the Zombie Apocalypse! So I'm good.

And in the scenario of neighborhoods pulling together: you are right on the money in my case. We'd have the covered wagons all in a circle in about 20 minutes my friend!
 
You might be 100% right. You might be 100% wrong. Pray we never find out!

I'm an RN and a haircutter. I got marketable skills in the Zombie Apocalypse! So I'm good.

And in the scenario of neighborhoods pulling together: you are right on the money in my case. We'd have the covered wagons all in a circle in about 20 minutes my friend!
We can only hope, this case would be the norm and not the anomaly. in today's world of social media, facebook, twitter, Most neighbors, don't even talk to one another anymore, much less know each other.

Absolute strangers will pull together in times of natural disaster like a tornado etc. Why? Because the one's who weren't directly effected, come to the aid and help the directly affected. However, widespread, national pandemonium that will encompass most? like social disorder and/or collapse?

Neighbors who don't really know each other or even talk, are going to suddenly band together and become an organized, functional force? Who decides leadership and how? It's one thing, after a tornado, crawling out of your storm shelter and pitching in to look for; and assist survivors. It's one thing, offering a neighbor an extension cord run from your house to their house during an ice storm or power outage?

It's a completely different type of animal, when full scale Rule of Law becomes non existent.

@Earcutter mentioned the bonding of humanity in a small city of a 3rd world country like Kingston Jamaica, during a natural occurring disaster. It does happen. And since the poverty in neighborhoods there, has already existed on a large scale for many generations, not only do they all already have something in common, which is by and large, living in wide scale poverty and sub standard conditions for generations, but those families culture, all have been raised the exact same way in the exact same place for generations.

Great, great grand parents, live next door to the Grandparents and parents and children and their children, all from the same slums. They all have been conditioned to come together as a way of life and survival.

However, in retrospect, let's observe the country of Venezuela in this same present time? They have their generational slums also. But now, due to political change, dogma, strife, upheaval, political unrest and societal collapse, Millions of people, who at one time could be considered "self sufficient' are no more.

They cannot and do not, know how to survive in their new societal norm. Those that don't/can't learn from this sudden crash course in humanities, don't survive at worst, or become victims at least. Period.
 
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I guess if you have confidence that your wife can handle the situation better than you, then that might be the best option.
I do have full confidence in my wife. If they get past her, it's because she let them. Maybe she is better in handling "the situation" than me. Because I wouldn't let them. :)
 
I know you are joking, kind of, but I agree. Just because a woman is a woman doesn't mean she can't be a better (insert word of your choice here, ha) than any man. I cannot think of any man I know that is cooler in a SHTF situation than my War Department. So I "pity the fool" that crosses her. She, like myself, can be diabolical. My love for her has just a little bit of fear mixed in. But she always works it out that when we go out to eat I'm facing the door, etc.... I've worked with nurses in tragic situations that really had it together, I've worked with those that didn't. Some were men, most were women. I think a cool head was equally distributed among the sexes.

When a code is called, there are nurses that grab the clipboard to record the actions, and there are those who start CPR. You just pray the right one grabs the clipboard first!
"Hell hath no fury like a woman protecting her own." -Rob's revised edition. :)
 
"Hell hath no fury like a woman protecting her own." -Rob's revised edition. :)

How true. In the wild, it is the mother elephant, the mother lion, etc. protecting their young that are the most fearsome creatures. I even remember a story about a forest fire. When the rangers were surveying the burned landscape, they found the burned carcass of a bird on the ground, but when they picked it up, they found several baby birds still alive, protected by their charred mother's wings.
 
How true. In the wild, it is the mother elephant, the mother lion, etc. protecting their young that are the most fearsome creatures. I even remember a story about a forest fire. When the rangers were surveying the burned landscape, they found the burned carcass of a bird on the ground, but when they picked it up, they found several baby birds still alive, protected by their charred mother's wings.
I think all men in their 20’s should be sat down and told that this shivery thing is BS. That a mans need to fix things, is to be controlled at all costs!

When dealing with a woman, let her fight her own wars. Bring a shovel, make a quip or two, but stand back and let her be. Then listen. Just be quiet and listen. If you do anything, don’t let her know.

winning.
 
I don't know what kind of woman you guys are married too, but that's just not my wife. She is not tough and depends on me to be the fighter when the time comes. I'm sure if she had to she would rise to the challenge, but safety and security are my domain. Don't underestimate a man when is family is in danger. Fathers and husband rise to the fight also.
 

FarmerTan

George Bailey Fanboy
I don't know what kind of woman you guys are married too, but that's just not my wife. She is not tough and depends on me to be the fighter when the time comes. I'm sure if she had to she would rise to the challenge, but safety and security are my domain. Don't underestimate a man when is family is in danger. Fathers and husband rise to the fight also.
Agreed, but my wife could beat up your wife!
 

FarmerTan

George Bailey Fanboy
roflmao!!
I'm glad you have a sense of humor my friend.

I married a woman who is/was a "Tomboy". VERY much a lady, but does not NEED a man.

We were both happily single, and had both told God as much, when he decided, as my dad used to say, "ruin only one marriage" by sticking us together.

Being married to her has saved my life, for at least the past 15 years, and my health has made me a tiny fraction of the man she originally married, but she still lets me pretend I wear the pants.

When she gets to Heaven she will have a storeroom full of crowns.
 
Same with my wife. I was quite the idiot (was?) and I loved her enough and she loved me enough to effect change. I didn't give God a second thought when we got married. She as patient and didn't judge. She prayed for me and it worked. I'm now assistant pastor of a small church.
 
The conversation of bug out vs. bug in, is as contentious as 9mm vs. .45. One side says it’s easier to defend a well fortified stronghold, while others say, it’s better to stay moving out in the woods and avoid all others.

I think the reality is neither if you are alone. If one clearly thinks about both subjectively, neither choice would be defensible alone even for the short term.

Pro’s & Cons of Bugging In:

1. You have the benefit of a permanent fortified structure and can be stocked up on supplies and ammo.

But sooner or later, someone or a group of someone’s are going to want what you have, and they are going to attempt to burn you out to get it.

Is the family with you have enough fighting age males in your group to form a defensive perimeter around your fortified structure 24/7? If not, then there is no such thing as a fortified structure that can’t be overcome. And it will only be a matter of when, not a matter of if.

And if you do have this big group of personnel to protect, how long will your supplies realistically hold out for that size of group?

Pro’s & Cons Of Bugging Out:

Yes Bugging out to the woods will get you away from the hordes of people momentarily, but the question is, do you think you will be the only person out in those woods or mountains?

What do you do with the hordes of ammo you collected all these years but now can’t haul it with you because you have to travel light?

Other people will find those back dirt roads also, and if you truly want to bug out where others wouldn’t go? Trust me, the terrain will dictate that you must travel light. So leave all the guns & ammo behind.

If you are all alone and are knowledgeable and skilled in the way of the bush you can avoid most. But you have a family with you? Wife? Daughters?

Just know, There will be bush people out there who are skilled in the way also, maybe even lived out there most of their lives. And sadly, some of those will be of the mindset those woods and mountains belong to them, so they are going to help themselves to whatever you have.

Frankly, they have been waiting for times like these, just in order to find people like you. They didn’t have to go find victims, victims bugged out to them.
What an interesting thread. 2020 meets the preppers and old scouts. Frankly, I’m a little too old at this point to be wandering about the deep woods, and will wait out any social collapse at home. I won’t lay out the steps we’ve had in place for the zombie apocalypse, except to touch on a couple not mentioned, especially if others are relying on you.

Water. Commodity number 1 in a crisis. Don’t count on municipal supplies or the gas and electric grids. Besides a self-contained generator setup for a well, a 5-10,000 gallon portable filter setup can give you potable water for a while if you are drawing from outdoor sources ... or are on the move.

Comms. Keep a quality semi-secure channel walkie-talkie kit around, with a box or two of lithium disposables. Just like the smarter hunters use. If a problem arises while reconnoitering about, you can alert for help and backup if need be.

Food. Besides the overpriced 20-year bags of sealed, powered dreck, you can never go wrong with basic canned reserves. Have a couple backup openers around. Otherwise, learn how to field dress a deer. Make sure you can cook on what’s fallen or you can fell outside, as electricity and gas may be limited or hard to come by.

William Devane keeps saying to invest in gold for a crisis. No. For a SHTF crisis, invest in lead, which will be far more valuable if the zombies show up.
 

jar_

Contributor
William Devane keeps saying to invest in gold for a crisis. No. For a SHTF crisis, invest in lead, which will be far more valuable if the zombies show up.
Have you ever noticed how all the folk that say you should invest in Gold are perfectly willing to trade their gold for your money?
 
The gun laws here in Maryland are ...interesting. Yes, there's my Stoeger Wildfowler o/u and 870, 1911 clone, and snubnose 32 for varying degrees of S hitting TF. And neither me nor Mrs. Rookie are afraid of using them. But with various children sleeping in various rooms, overpenetration is something in the back of my mind.

I've always been in the camp of nothing quite like the sound of a shotty being pumped to say you're in the wrong place. And my little snubnose is so easy to keep on target as I **** and aim again.

Honestly, what's under my bed and pillow for things that have gone bump in the night in the past has been a Louisville Slugger, masonry hammer (picture a hammer on one side and hatchet on the other), and machete hanging upside down by my bedroom door.

Where I live now, the threats have changed. And that lead me from the first paragraph to the third. The more I think about it, right now I think the most likely threat to myself and family in my neighborhood would be a rabid raccoon, fox, skunk, or opposum. Hmm, I should probably be in the market for a good .22 rifle with 8x scope.

One more thought bouncing around my head to share with the group. Both in the military and everyday life in Baltimore, Maryland, I've had those "bumps in the night". I've had to "take care of business". Not many times (thank whichever diety is appropriate), and each time was to protect life (either mine, my family's, or comrades in arms). Let me tell you, it's something to live with. I can't say I regret doing it, but many days still years (in some cases a decade or more), I regret that I had to. For me, anyways. So as we thump our chests and possibly fantasize about it, please don't forget what exactly it is we're talking about. Ok, I'll stop being a downer now.
 
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