+1. Great designs proven over time IMO.
DE Razors Design, Is It In a Rut?
- Thread starter Rwoodreno
- Start date
+1. Great designs proven over time IMO.
I'd prefer some forward-thinking company to market a quality DE blade which is perhaps 20% - 30% thicker. A lot of those early Gillettes and a lot of modern razors could take advantage of a thicker blade.
Here is the 3 step adjustability of the Segal.
Not a bad idea. It might solve some of the rigidity issues which gives the advantage to the Gem and Feather AC type blades. OTOH, the two blades that I tried that are thicker were the Chinese Ming Shi blade and the Rockwell and both were not great performers (maybe they needed to be thicker and have a different edge). The super thin blades like the Feather and Nacet did a lot better.
Re. cast designs - The Fendrihan Scientist/Ambassador/Artist/Adventurer Mk I all-stainless razors use metal injection molding for the SS heads, and they turned out pretty well.
The bottom and hidden surfaces show the fine bumpy texture from the molding process, but the comb, guard bar, and cap top are highly polished.
The handles are machined.
The bottom and hidden surfaces show the fine bumpy texture from the molding process, but the comb, guard bar, and cap top are highly polished.
The handles are machined.
I would if it were reasonably priced, but it would probably be above my pay scale.
I think a Fatip Piccolo is about as close as you'll currently get, more like an OLD on steroids though, but as far as quality vs price, I think they hit the nail on the head.
The FaTip is a great example. A well made quality razor from what I understand. Good rigid design and quality material at a very reasonable price. With slight changes and added finishing I believe you even find them on the higher end Plisson/Joris razors. As I understand it the Plisson/Joris heads are made in the same facility as FaTip.
I'm not sure if it could be done but I was thinking that a SE slant would be something I'd be interested in. Not sure if a half blade would set properly or if you could get the right torque on the blade but I think it would be an interesting razor though...
This.
Not necessarily a slant, but a razor that uses half a DE blade, if well designed, could be a game changer. One of the basic problems with DE razors is that they have to be designed to fit all DE blades. Since the is a wide variation in the dimensions of DE blades, the razors need to have very large tolerances. (The width of de blades can vary up to 3/4th of a millimeter between different brands.). This is why some blades suit some razors & some people & not others. In the case of cartridges, the manufacturer has control over the tolerances, & can design a better fit. If a razor were to be designed to fit half a DE blade, it could have the blade headspace on the front tabs & the rear semicircular cutouts, reducing the tolerances considerably.
The only half blade de I know of is the Rocnel SE P, & it is not widely available.
I believe there is a startup trying to do precisely this, but it may take years to come to market.
Not all Segals seem to have that feature.
Here is the 3 step adjustability of the Segal.
I totally agree, and apologies for bumping an old thread.
I think the biggest problem is that most of the razor "designers" today ignore non Gillette designs on the basis of "it wasn't successful then, so why would it be now?"
The Darwin homage razor from Bullgoose is one of the lone exceptions, as is the Double Open Comb from Phoenix Artisan Accoutrements.
However, each of those razors is a step backwards as well when you consider the materials used to make the originals. (The limited titanium run of the asylum evolution might be considered an upgrade).
There are 100 years worth of designs out there that work well:
The above mentioned Segal
Roller guard
Cooper Monobilt
Shake Sharp
Rthymic adjustable
Darwin
Apollo red ring
Walbusch B5
Abercrombie & Fitch old type OC slant
The Gem Micromatics
The Christy and Enders razors
Grand shave king
Barbasol floating head
...and those are just off the top of my head. I'm sure a hundred more could be added to that list. Take a Gem Micromatic, add the adjustment mechanism from a Fatboy, and presto, you've got an adjustable SE razor. Or combine a Fatboy with a #15 aristocrat, and now you have an open comb Fatboy with barber pole knurling.
I find it highly improbable that modern CNC machines cannot replicate stamped brass parts from 70 years ago.
I've said for sometime that new stuff is repackaged Gillette designs.
For what it is worth, I think there are many great modern razors available. As mentioned above, most are just variations on past themes and yes, some have gone backward in quality using zamac instead of brass. I really like the current trend of using stainless steel, machined or molded. A Fatboy is the heaviest I have used at +80 grams so I can't really comment on the current trend toward +100 gram razors. I would really like to see more stainless or nickle over brass razors that are 70-90 grams, with hollow handles. Of course, we can't forget Razo Rock and their ability to bring a high quality machined SS razor to market for less than $60. On the other end of the spectrum, there is the Rex Ambassador, a design and engineering marvel but that quality is pricey. How about Rex and Razo Rock team up and offer a high quality machined adjustable for less than $100, now that would be something new!
Someone mentioned MIM manufacture above, and I think that's onto something. With MIM, for example, vintage Gillette designs could be cheaply molded out of stainless steel and be more durable and more precisely fit than the plated brass of old.
I'd LOVE to see a modern Aristocrat with stainless steel base metal, either plated Gold or left as polished stainless. Or how about an all stainless modern take on the Gillette toggle razor? Even the Gillette adjustable (slim or fatboy or Sheraton) in stainless would pique my interest. I'd buy one for sure just to try it out.
The stamping and folding machines that originally made these would not be needed in a modern MIM casting operation. The razors would not be cheap, but they would not be out of reach either.
I did notice Rockwell now makes a MIM stainless 3 piece with interchangeable and reversible base plates to give 6 adjustment settings, but it's a clumsy design compared to the adjustables Gillette used to make.
What I'd also like to see is modern manufacture of the original Old Type blades, but in stainless with the modern coatings. This would be a GREAT item to use in vintage OT razors that tend to over-flex modern blades and give the OT a reputation for being much too aggressive. I'd love the try a shave or two with an OT using the original blade design with modern sharpening standards. I'll bet it would be amazing.
(PS: If remakes of the OT blades DO exist and I'm just unaware... someone please let me know!!)
I'd LOVE to see a modern Aristocrat with stainless steel base metal, either plated Gold or left as polished stainless. Or how about an all stainless modern take on the Gillette toggle razor? Even the Gillette adjustable (slim or fatboy or Sheraton) in stainless would pique my interest. I'd buy one for sure just to try it out.
The stamping and folding machines that originally made these would not be needed in a modern MIM casting operation. The razors would not be cheap, but they would not be out of reach either.
I did notice Rockwell now makes a MIM stainless 3 piece with interchangeable and reversible base plates to give 6 adjustment settings, but it's a clumsy design compared to the adjustables Gillette used to make.
What I'd also like to see is modern manufacture of the original Old Type blades, but in stainless with the modern coatings. This would be a GREAT item to use in vintage OT razors that tend to over-flex modern blades and give the OT a reputation for being much too aggressive. I'd love the try a shave or two with an OT using the original blade design with modern sharpening standards. I'll bet it would be amazing.
(PS: If remakes of the OT blades DO exist and I'm just unaware... someone please let me know!!)
Look no further than an SE or Injector razor. They still use what you call OT blades which are stainless steel, much thicker and stiffer than DE blades, triple-beveled, and some are coated.
Yes, I know, but I can't really use one in an OT razor and enjoy that shave experience. SE razors will shave differently and an original DE old type, I suspect.
I admire the companies that are branching out beyond simple three piece designs into something more aesthetically similar to the classic Gillette's (i.e., Rockwell), but it's going to be a rough ride keeping costs low enough to realize good profits.
Competition against third world labor markets, inexpensive zinc allow construction and design obstacles seem to make it an uphill battle. Even Rockwell has conceded the difficulty of engineering stainless steel silo doors and appears to be using zinc alloy for those parts.
Bear in mind, the Gillette model did not revolve around profit through razor sales, but profit from disposable blades that a customer must buy over and over. That option is not available today with dirt cheap, high quality blades that are available everywhere.
Competition against third world labor markets, inexpensive zinc allow construction and design obstacles seem to make it an uphill battle. Even Rockwell has conceded the difficulty of engineering stainless steel silo doors and appears to be using zinc alloy for those parts.
Bear in mind, the Gillette model did not revolve around profit through razor sales, but profit from disposable blades that a customer must buy over and over. That option is not available today with dirt cheap, high quality blades that are available everywhere.
I hope this doesn't sound rude, but Rockwell created a great razor system in stainless. I own one. Why did they see the need to build the Model T when they already sell "The Holy Grail of shaving" ?
Probably because they wanted to be the first company to offer a modern Gillette style adjustable in 50 years. I like one piece razors...so Rockwell's 6S razor will never be my "Holy Grail of shaving."
R
romsitsa
There is a SS Toggle copy in the works from Janus, price will be 600+ USD, iirc. A 195 or Slim have roughly the same part count and complexity.
Brass stamping is simply more cost efficient and fast if you have the stamping machine at hand as Gillette had.
A Fatboy can't be mixed with an open comb base plate, tolerances would be too tight or there would be a roughly 1 mm wide strip to hold the comb.
Adam
Brass stamping is simply more cost efficient and fast if you have the stamping machine at hand as Gillette had.
A Fatboy can't be mixed with an open comb base plate, tolerances would be too tight or there would be a roughly 1 mm wide strip to hold the comb.
Adam
I came to some similar conclusions when I got into vintage razor use. Perhaps the market wants a modern product that has not been damaged from use and abuse in metals such as stainless or titanium and is willing to pay for old designs.
