DE razor design process

[ono]

Hi,

First of all apologies for a bit of an obscure post, because I'm asking something without giving much info about the question.

I am a product designer, and I have what i think is a good idea applicable DE razors. It's something about function, not form, and If I'm right it's patentable (of course if i'm wrong then it doesn't make any sense).At this point, and since I'm still working on the shape, I think it's best not to explain any more.

My question is , how would you go about approaching the big 3 (EJ,MERKUR,MUHLE) with this idea. Does anyone have some inside info (or not so inside) about the design process of these companies and whether they are usually open to external collaborations?royalties, etc..Or do they only develop new models once in a blue moon?

Thanks for anything really.

 

[Doppelgaenger]

They don't seem to develop new models very often, and a lot of times half their models are the same head with just a different handle on them. The only really different razor that has come out in the past few years has been the 2011 R41 with it's different comb and the super exposed blade. The quality of their products is also quite questionable, what with their cheap zamak alloys and their less than stellar chrome jobs.

I think if you wanted to contact a manufacturer about doing something different, you would be better off going for one of the smaller brands like iKon, Weber, Fatip or Joris. They will be a lot more interested in talking to you because if you give them a great idea, they'll be excited about launching it into the world to gain an edge over everyone else. If the idea is really that good, then the big 3 will come to you asking to license it once the idea proves itself to be excellent.

I suppose if I were to try and contact one of the big 3 it would be Muehle though.

 

[Haiku]

Hi,

First of all apologies for a bit of an obscure post, because I'm asking something without giving much info about the question.

I am a product designer, and I have what i think is a good idea applicable DE razors. It's something about function, not form, and If I'm right it's patentable (of course if i'm wrong then it doesn't make any sense).At this point, and since I'm still working on the shape, I think it's best not to explain any more.

My question is , how would you go about approaching the big 3 (EJ,MERKUR,MUHLE) with this idea. Does anyone have some inside info (or not so inside) about the design process of these companies and whether they are usually open to external collaborations?royalties, etc..Or do they only develop new models once in a blue moon?

Thanks for anything really.

You approach them with a confidentiality agreement in hand, drafted by your attorney and applicable in the jurisdiction where the potential buyer has offices and assets, with the jursidiction of the court where you are so that if you need to sue them, you don't have to go to Europe to do it. You make very sure that it is drafted by your attorney so that if the agreement proves to be invalid, your attorney's insurance will cover you. It should cost you no more than one or two hours of your attorney's time, and so somewhere between $500 and $750 should cover it. If they are unwilling to sign the agreement you move on to another manufacturer.

Consider Richard at Tradere. He's coming out with new models and he's in the US.

 

[ono]

Thanks Doppelgaenger, good advice. I'm not sure it's "that good" an idea, but it definitely is a technical improvement and as far as I'm aware hasn't been done so i'm quite positive about it.
About the licensing I suppose I would have to patent it myself before contacting anyone, which is a massive hit, and it's what's stopping me at the moment.

 

[ono]

Hi Haiku, that's neat, of course the confidentiality agreement would be a strong card to hold, even without a patent.
I am based in europe, actually, so I might try the european manufacturers first.

 

[JeffE]

You approach them with a confidentiality agreement in hand, drafted by your attorney and applicable in the jurisdiction where the potential buyer has offices and assets, with the jursidiction of the court where you are so that if you need to sue them, you don't have to go to Europe to do it. You make very sure that it is drafted by your attorney so that if the agreement proves to be invalid, your attorney's insurance will cover you. It should cost you no more than one or two hours of your attorney's time, and so somewhere between $500 and $750 should cover it. If they are unwilling to sign the agreement you move on to another manufacturer.

Consider Richard at Tradere. He's coming out with new models and he's in the US.

I'm a patent attorney, so if I can offer a bit of additional advice -- the idea of having a confidentiality agreement is fine in theory, but I don't imagine that most manufacturers would be willing to sign one without knowing a bit more about what you're working on. After all, what if your idea is something that they have already thought of and already have in development? Don't laugh, it happens all the time.

Still you can put together a confidentiality agreement and give it a try. It shouldn't cost very much money -- just an hour or two of attorney time. The better plan might be to go ahead and file patent applications for your idea. At a minimum, I'd consider filing both utility and design applications for the new razor, and I'd consider filing both a US application and a PCT application (to preserve foreign rights). Filing all of these patent applications is going to cost quite a bit more, but if the idea is valuable, then the legal work is well worth it.

 

[ono]

Thanks JeffE, I am sure that there are not so many things that can be done to a razor, after having been on the market for so many years, and probably manufacturers have thought of things many times over. That's why I say that the idea could be worthy and patentable, but then again it might not make sense. I think the c.a is the way to go in this case, rather than applying for a patent.

 

[AceByTerror]

I'd also suggest you consider "going it alone" - at the very least to the prototype stage.

In my experience, those further along the development cycle have a far greater leg to stand on when trying to court either a large name manufacturer or exploring the possibility of developing a concept locally or in-house - by that I mean you

The initial capital may be more, but the rewards or almost always worth it in either case - assuming the idea is in fact marketable.

I know a good design engineering firm if you want to talk to someone. Run by a guy I worked with years ago. Class act. Let me know if you're interested and I'll shoot you his company's web site address.

 

[ono]

Nice, thanks. where are they based?
I will definitely get it to the stage of a prototype in metal. Who knows I might even try to shave with it and pray I keep my face intact.
It must be a challenge to get all the ergonomy parameters right. Possibly I'll do lots of plastic prototypes to make it shave worthy.
If I went down that route I could piff it around to get brave users opinions, but that's a stretch for now.

 

[AceByTerror]

Based out of Toronto - http://cortex-design.com/

Kindof a "boutique" firm - Dylan who owns the place really knows his stuff.

 

[Doppelgaenger]

Try finding someone or a company to do a 3D print of it for you. You'll have to find someone who has an SLS or SLM system to have a workable part, but it might be cheaper than having it machined. Note that some of the 3D printing methods make very brittle parts meant for mockup only, you should avoid shaving with something like that by all means!

 

[alex2363]

I'm a patent attorney, so if I can offer a bit of additional advice -- the idea of having a confidentiality agreement is fine in theory, but I don't imagine that most manufacturers would be willing to sign one without knowing a bit more about what you're working on. After all, what if your idea is something that they have already thought of and already have in development? Don't laugh, it happens all the time.

Still you can put together a confidentiality agreement and give it a try. It shouldn't cost very much money -- just an hour or two of attorney time. The better plan might be to go ahead and file patent applications for your idea. At a minimum, I'd consider filing both utility and design applications for the new razor, and I'd consider filing both a US application and a PCT application (to preserve foreign rights). Filing all of these patent applications is going to cost quite a bit more, but if the idea is valuable, then the legal work is well worth it.

Jeff, very good advise and especially since its in your area of expertise.

 

[Teddyboy]

Given the international flavor of BB alone, it seems that interest in your razor innovation would have to be protected around the world. This includes countries where foreigners are likely to have problems asserting their proprietary rights. For example, India is known to be tough on foreign patent holders. My guess is that China and Russia would be also-just a guess. Like it was stated above, you are looking at beaucoup spondoolicks to be covered in the most likely jurisdictions.

Also, as you stated, what can you do to a razor? Minor or trivial modifications of the structure or design of a razor may not get you very far in the patent process. You may have a great idea but that does not mean it will be easy to patent. Some patent applications, especially in crowded technical arts, go through multiple cycles of the patent application/prosecution process for reasons too complicated to go into here. Extrapolate these several cycles (i.e., requesting additional examination after the application is rejected) to several countries and you're talking big, big $$$ for a "small" inventor working in his garage or basement.
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[rob_NH]

I would be happy if someone just wanted to make and market a solid stainless steel R41 head. That said, I am excited by new ideas, and hope you can make yors a reality.

 

[ono]

Thanks for all the info. I have a good company that does the RPs , they are also quite cheap and have different materials. I think the best strategy for my situation is going to be prototyping, getting some kind of confidentiality agreement and going to manufacturers with a certain amount of good faith, because I def. can't afford to patent it myself.

 

[Tillerman7]

Approach them with an attorney and a NDA/Non compete agreement.