Damn Comfortable Shave

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Congratulations Jim!
Bet that has come as a relief, finaly getting a blade sharper than any of the so called "shave ready" razors you've bought.

So now you've jumped 2 hurdles.
Getting the burr method right then honing through the progressions and getting a decent shave from the end result.
Doesn't get much better than that.
There should be no stopping you now!

Thats probably right about your 12k being 15k compared to the US grit system.
As far as I know thats the same for my Naniwa 12k.

Last couple of razors I've honed, I've taken all the way to 12k and even gone on pasted balsa before doing a few strokes on my Ark.
The edge has been nice and sharp and also very smooth.
Things are looking up and experience does pay off in the end.

Always finish with whatever stone you want to shave from. If you then move onto something else your removing the edge the finisher put there.

Thanks, Doug. I hope you're right.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Twelvefret]

It's been around 10 razors. I've honed and gotten to shave ready using films, diamond paste, chromium oxide, and now a Thuringian. I'm probably going to get another packet of films to put back. This should do me for life.

The most important lesson was getting the stainless Herder to shave ready after having to repeat the honing process. I spent a lot of time on the 30 micron sheet the second time and learned to feel the burr.

There is something special about the feel progression from the 3-.5 micron. Not sure what you would need in stones to reproduce the same, but I think those final progressions are what makes or breaks a shave ready edge.

 

[Esox]

Must be.

The Japanese Shapton 12K I have has made a very nice addition to my stone set. I'm barely in the novice class at all, but Keith @Gamma is on record, here, as saying my stone is the same as the US Shapton Pro 15K, linked. I have little idea about these stones except to say I like mine from my little bit of experience with it. I shopped for price and got a decent buy on Amazon, link.

I know a lot of people say to move from the 8K synthetic directly to the Arkansas hard black finishing stone. Keith, however, says to advance to the 12K, and then to the Arkansas for better results. In my very limited experience this seems correct. It also may be that what I've done next, that is strop on a lightly CrOx coated linen strop, makes a difference.

I don't have anywhere near enough experience to know what's what with all this honing stuff. All I'm saying is what little I may have learned from the small amount of honing experience I have. It's pretty clear to me that a couple of things are true.

• Honing and stones is the biggest of rabbit holes if you want it to be.
• It's possible to achieve a sharp and comfortable edge; at least I've done it once. Finally.
• Setting the bevel with the burr method works and is objective and simple enough.
• I have a lot of questions including these, link.

I think finishing on the Arkansas hard black makes the edge significantly more comfortable.

Happy shaves,

Jim

I remember when the ceramic rods used for knife sharpening first came on the market. I was in the gun shop and they were giving a demo so I let him do one of mine. He gave it a very sharp edge very quickly, but it wasnt the same edge as I got from a stone. It was more like an edge you get from a steel on a kitchen knife, despite how smooth the rods are. I think those ceramic rod sharpeners were originally intended to sharpen the Boker ceramic knife that I believe came on the market at about the same time.

Ceramic blades need ceramic stones. I believe, natural steels need natural stones. Sharpen a typical pocket knife on a fresh white ceramic rod or stone and watch how quickly the carbon builds on the surface. Do the same on an Arkansas and that carbon buildup takes quite a bit longer. The ceramic cuts very quickly. An Arkansas whetstone cuts more slowly but it gives a finer edge.

Flat steels and diamond stones gave the same very quick and very sharp edge as a ceramic, but its not the same edge as I get from my Arkansas.

On my 10th birthday my father gave me this knife.

A Puma Prince thats the bigger brother of the Puma Earl he gave me when I was 7 or 8. I still have the Earl too, it sits in its box in a drawer where it has since he gave me the Prince.

In 1986 I gave it to a friend of my father who had a friend that sharpened knives. He had it for 3 months and worked it on a series of whetstones. He reset the edge to a shallower angle and when I got it back it was like it was sharpened by Odin himself. It has never been on a stone since I got it back from him.

Holding the knife like that, just the weight of the knife itself, I sliced a pizza with it when I first got it back. I dragged it across the pizza and it sliced through the pizza and the box under it. I had to move the box to make sure it didnt cut the footstool under it.

Since then that knife has gone on every hunting trip I've ever taken. Its skinned and butchered 33 deer I shot plus skinned several others. Its skinned several coyotes, foxes and racoons and done every other chore you ask from a knife. Just now as I was taking those pictures I tested it on my arm. It will still shave hair from it.

My brother in law went to a flat steel because they cut and give a fresh edge so much quicker. At least a dozen times skinning deer I handed him that knife because he didnt want to refresh the edge on his.

Ceramic, diamond and steel stones will give a very good edge but I've never seen an edge that fine created on anything but natural whetstones by someone that has a real passion for doing it.

 

[Twelvefret]

I remember when the ceramic rods used for knife sharpening first came on the market. I was in the gun shop and they were giving a demo so I let him do one of mine. He gave it a very sharp edge very quickly, but it wasnt the same edge as I got from a stone. It was more like an edge you get from a steel on a kitchen knife, despite how smooth the rods are. I think those ceramic rod sharpeners were originally intended to sharpen the Boker ceramic knife that I believe came on the market at about the same time.

Ceramic blades need ceramic stones. I believe, natural steels need natural stones. Sharpen a typical pocket knife on a fresh white ceramic rod or stone and watch how quickly the carbon builds on the surface. Do the same on an Arkansas and that carbon buildup takes quite a bit longer. The ceramic cuts very quickly. An Arkansas whetstone cuts more slowly but it gives a finer edge.

Flat steels and diamond stones gave the same very quick and very sharp edge as a ceramic, but its not the same edge as I get from my Arkansas.

On my 10th birthday my father gave me this knife.

View attachment 935221

A Puma Prince thats the bigger brother of the Puma Earl he gave me when I was 7 or 8. I still have the Earl too, it sits in its box in a drawer where it has since he gave me the Prince.

In 1986 I gave it to a friend of my father who had a friend that sharpened knives. He had it for 3 months and worked it on a series of whetstones. He reset the edge to a shallower angle and when I got it back it was like it was sharpened by Odin himself. It has never been on a stone since I got it back from him.

View attachment 935225

Holding the knife like that, just the weight of the knife itself, I sliced a pizza with it when I first got it back. I dragged it across the pizza and it sliced through the pizza and the box under it. I had to move the box to make sure it didnt cut the footstool under it.

Since then that knife has gone on every hunting trip I've ever taken. Its skinned and butchered 33 deer I shot plus skinned several others. Its skinned several coyotes, foxes and racoons and done every other chore you ask from a knife. Just now as I was taking those pictures I tested it on my arm. It will still shave hair from it.

My brother in law went to a flat steel because they cut and give a fresh edge so much quicker. At least a dozen times skinning deer I handed him that knife because he didnt want to refresh the edge on his.

Ceramic, diamond and steel stones will give a very good edge but I've never seen an edge that fine created on anything but natural whetstones by someone that has a real passion for doing it.

I had a Puma once with a green rubber or plastic handle. I remembered when I saw the green and yellow plastic case. When I was a butcher we only used a steel to sharpen our knives. I wanted some of those chain mail gloves back then.

 

[Esox]

I had a Puma once with a green rubber or plastic handle. I remembered when I saw the green and yellow plastic case. When I was a butcher we only used a steel to sharpen our knives. I wanted some of those chain mail gloves back then.

Yeah, butchers do a lot of work and work quickly with thick heavy cuts of beef. The ones I knew carried a steel in a belt harness and it was almost like every other cut they'd take a few swipes with the steel.

These are some of my knives. Puma Prince and Earl with their wooden handle counterparts.

The bone handle stiletto bottom center is a Puma Medici from the 1950's my father use to carry and then gave to my mother. The newer Medici knives, from about the 1980's and up arent the same quality as those older ones. I polished the blade and sharpened it. Its a wicked little blade that one.

The Al Mar Gunstock to the left of it is a favorite knife of mine. The steel is from Seki Japan.

The Puma fixed blades top left. The Puma Skinner below the White Hunter is the one I used to remove 10 days itchy growth. I gave my nephew both of those. The Skinner was my fathers and older than I am. Its a thin blade with a very fine edge that needs stropping once the edge is set. That makes them fragile and most others I've seen with years of use have the tip broken off. The White Hunter is a miniature axe lol. It will pop the hip bones of a bull Moose as easily as a crowbar. It even has a bone saw at the back of the blade.

 

[Twelvefret]

Yeah, butchers do a lot of work and work quickly with thick heavy cuts of beef. The ones I knew carried a steel in a belt harness and it was almost like every other cut they'd take a few swipes with the steel.

These are some of my knives. Puma Prince and Earl with their wooden handle counterparts.

View attachment 935229

The bone handle stiletto bottom center is a Puma Medici from the 1950's my father use to carry and then gave to my mother. The newer Medici knives, from about the 1980's and up arent the same quality as those older ones. I polished the blade and sharpened it. Its a wicked little blade that one.

The Al Mar Gunstock to the left of it is a favorite knife of mine. The steel is from Seki Japan.

The Puma fixed blades top left. The Puma Skinner below the White Hunter is the one I used to remove 10 days itchy growth. I gave my nephew both of those. The Skinner was my fathers and older than I am. Its a thin blade with a very fine edge that needs stropping once the edge is set. That makes them fragile and most others I've seen with years of use have the tip broken off. The White Hunter is a miniature axe lol. It will pop the hip bones of a bull Moose as easily as a crowbar. It even has a bone saw at the back of the blade.

Nice collection, Mike. I had several nice specimens growing up, but I think they got sold off by a brother who was always in debt for one reason of another.

My pocket knife of choice is a Case Whittler and Boker Barlows. I have a chef's knife that I started sharpening using one of my grandfather's needle stones.

What's funny to me as we talk about our tools as to the comparative irreverence a professional goes through to get the blade prepared to do a job. They hone to cut and it seems some here hone just to be using stones....LOL

 

[Esox]

Thanks. I have a 'thing' for knives haha.

The one that leaves the house with me now is a Cold Steel Ti-Lite. Thats a really nice knife. It has a pocket dragger on it so you can open it as you pull it from your pocket. I did that in a hurry one day and almost stabbed a friend standing behind me lol.

I like CRKT knives too. Inexpensive and pretty nice for what they cost.

Ti-Lite top, CRKT Ken Onion Ripple center and my CRKT Delegate thats discontinued, bottom.

The Ripple is really nice. Pictures dont do it justice. Its a finger flipper that operates on ball bearings, very slick and very fast. The Delegate is assisted opening but the thumb stud is flush with the scale and basically useless.

The Kershaw below is another finger flipper.



A large fairly heavy knife with a thin tang blade that takes a very sharp edge very quickly.

A friend of mine use to carry a Cold Steel San Mai Tanto. That blade is 3 layers laminated together. Incredibly hard and strong. Its also very difficult to sharpen but holds an edge really well even when seriously abused. It will punch through the hood of a 1986 Chevy Caprice and still thinly slice a tomato.

 

[Twelvefret]

I have a Cold Steel with Tanto tip made in Japan. I got my son a CS, but can't remember the model, named for a training center I think. I carry a swift water rescue knife while paddling whitewater.

 

[Esox]

I have a Cold Steel with Tanto tip made in Japan.

The original Cold Steel San Mai Tantos with Brass pommel and hilt are very highly sought after. Even the stainless ones now but not as much. I wish I had bought the set when they first came out.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

You guys have a huge amount of knife and honing experience and knowledge. Mine is very meager. Most of what I know is from being a Boy Scout and just the normal stuff that householders of our generation know. Oh, and I do know chain saw sharpening including modifying the angle for hardwoods (chain saw blades you buy are set for softwoods). I'm not in the league with you guys when it comes to knives and blades of that sort.

Are you sure that knife story isn't a fish story? It sounds almost too good to be true. Not saying it isn't true because why would it be, but that's an amazing knife and an amazing honer.

Mike, I gave one of my sons a Cold Stone knife which looks very much like the one you posted. I purchased it at a gun show. I recall it being new and, for me, expensive. Anyway, he was incredibly impressed with the knife. I suspect it was the finest gift, in his view of it, he'd ever received, at least from me. I was so happy he liked it so much. I hope he still has the knife.

Probably I should take better care of my pocket knives and value them more, but I tend to not do so. I always carry one, but usually it just clips onto my key ring. That's sort of embarrassing in this context, but there you are.

Slash @Slash McCoy recommended a small knife sharpening tool for me to use. I've purchased it but not used it yet, but it looks adequate for my purposes and very easy to use. I'm not in the league with you gentlemen.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Esox]

Are you sure that knife story isn't a fish story? It sounds almost too good to be true. Not saying it isn't true because why would it be, but that's an amazing knife and an amazing honer.

I know how it sounds and I was just as surprised to see the pizza box cut when I did it lol. The only thing that stopped the knife from cutting completely through the box and the fabric on the footstool under it was the width of the blade. Had I used even a little more pressure it would have cut the fabric too.

Unlike my fishing stories however, I dont have a picture of it to back my word lol.

It takes time and, like I said, a passion to get things that sharp, but there are people that can. I dont happen to be one of them lol.

Slash @Slash McCoy recommended a small knife sharpening tool for me to use. I've purchased it but not used it yet, but it looks adequate for my purposes and very easy to use. I'm not in the league with you gentlemen.

I keep forgetting to look for one at the dollar store hahaha. Thats where my knife sharpening enthusiasm is these days. Thats also why, like the pic above of my CS and CRKT knives, look at the edge on my Delegate. When they got dull they went back in their box and into the drawer and I went to buy another one lol.

There are videos of testing Cold Steel knives around, and one on the link for the Ti-Lite. Every Cold Steel knife I've handled seems up to what they do to them in the videos.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Saturday's shave was mostly an instant replay.

Same basic kit as yesterday.Very similar results. Good shave. As good as yesterday so it wasn't a fluke.

In all respects this is very nice splash. It feels simply great on my skin. It doesn't burn. It smells nice. No, it's not bay rum much less Atomic Bay Rum, but it's very good stuff, this 888. I like it a lot.

I've decided I made these scales too thick and therefore too heavy; the balance of the razor isn't good enough for me and it feels a tad clunky in my hand. I think the scales can be fixed and have begun the project.

I've removed the pins from this razor (my Wade & Butcher). I filed them down on the non-face side without damaging the scales and the pins then came out easily. I have one end of one of the scales soaking in acetone; the plan is to dissolve the epoxy holding the wedge to that scale. I think it will work and the man at Ace Hardware agreed. If it doesn't I will file the wedge down to nothing (and make another wedge).

Once the wedge is removed I'll sand the inside surface of both scales. I want them to be considerably thinner. If sanding doesn't do the job I will consider using a file to thin the scales. Next, I will fill at least one of the holes I drilled in the pivot end of the razor. I purchased slow setting epoxy for that purpose. Filling the hole will be preparatory to drilling the hole again.

I've got to carefully examine the holes in the pivot end to see what needs to be done, exactly. I'm thinking of not drilling the hole(s) until I obtain a bench press (from Harbor Freight). I'm not buying anything right now (acetone and sandpaper and epoxy don't count) and don't know when I'll get a bench press so it's possible I might try hand drilling again but I hate to hose up the holes for a second time.

We have fun in some weird ways!

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Esox]

I have one end of one of the scales soaking in acetone; the plan is to dissolve the epoxy holding the wedge to that scale. I think it will work and the man at Ace Hardware agreed. If it doesn't I will file the wedge down to nothing (and make another wedge).

That may soften the scale too. I'm not sure what would be used to deactivate the Acetone. Hopefully, you wont need to find out, but I guess if you do its too late anyway lol.

 

[Somerled]

Mike, the cops in the UK would have a field day with all your knives.
If you ever decide to visit the UK I would suggest you leave them all at home

Today I decided to do some restoration work on a razor I had intended to sort out earlier this week.
Got sidetracked with a frameback that I had to make some scales for.

This razor has an etch on it I wanted to save. The blade is in good condition and the only rusty part is at the usual pivot area. So, minimal cleaning up and a very light polish was the order of the day.

The scales are bone and a bit stained. Wasn't 100% sure if I was going to keep them and try to clean them up.
Because of the rust at the pivot I de-pinned them and one side of the scales broke into 3 pieces - brittle.

Plan B, new scales.

Bought another piece of Kirinite to do this during the week.

This time the kirinite was the right thickness and needed minimal sanding to get it as thin as I wanted. Easier to cut with the moto saw as well.

New wedge, glued and pinned. This stuff has taken a great shine when polished.

Scales look stunning in the flesh. Kirinite is pretty amazing stuff for making scales, it has a 3d quality to the finish that photographs can't show.
One day I'll do wood, but for now this will do.

Razor still has to be honed. So, no test shave yet.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I know how it sounds and I was just as surprised to see the pizza box cut when I did it lol. The only thing that stopped the knife from cutting completely through the box and the fabric on the footstool under it was the width of the blade. Had I used even a little more pressure it would have cut the fabric too.

Unlike my fishing stories however, I dont have a picture of it to back my word lol.

View attachment 935302

It takes time and, like I said, a passion to get things that sharp, but there are people that can. I dont happen to be one of them lol.

I keep forgetting to look for one at the dollar store hahaha. Thats where my knife sharpening enthusiasm is these days. Thats also why, like the pic above of my CS and CRKT knives, look at the edge on my Delegate. When they got dull they went back in their box and into the drawer and I went to buy another one lol.

There are videos of testing Cold Steel knives around, and one on the link for the Ti-Lite. Every Cold Steel knife I've handled seems up to what they do to them in the videos.

This is the item I purchased on Slash's advice.

Link. I'm not sure I used it exactly right (I did read the directions). All I did was draw the blade of my little Buck pocketknife through the 25 degree slot a few times. I think my little knife is a lot sharper. The instructions say to use the ceramic "benchstone;" it's white and on the right upper side in the photo, but I don't know how to use it and don't care much because my blade is much better from the V shaped sharpener.

I know I once had a clue about sharpening a knife on a whetstone. My Boy Scout troop was serious about skills like that, and back then the Boy Scout Handbook was loaded with excellent instructions on such skills. I remember being able to make an axe very sharp with a file.

We surely didn't wear leather gloves or anything sharpening an axe.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Esox]

Mike, the cops in the UK would have a field day with all your knives.
If you ever decide to visit the UK I would suggest you leave them all at home

I almost did go once. I was at a travel agent in Victoria BC and said I needed a ticket to London. London being Ontario but I didnt voice that bit lol. She sorted it out and printed it and as I was paying for it, $680 at the time, I saw it was for London Heathrow. Wait a minute...haha.

If I had known anyone there at the time I would have gone. I likely should have anyway.

Nice scales too. Not only do I like gold, I like RED too, but not on a car...

 

[Esox]

This in the item I purchased on Slash's advice.

Link. I'm not sure I used it exactly right (I did read the directions). All I did was draw the blade of my little Buck pocketknife through the 25 degree slot a few times. I think my little knife is a lot sharper. The instructions say to use the ceramic "benchstone;" it's white and on the right upper side in the photo, but I don't know how to use it and don't care much because my blade is much better from the V shaped sharpener.

Dammit! I was just in the dollar store and forgot again! LOL

Yep that would be ideal, assuming my knives have an angle that corresponds to one of those lol.

This is all I'm after for a quick touch up but the next time I'm in the gun shop I'll have a look, if I remember! Knife sharpening isnt high on my list if you havent noticed lol.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Mike, the cops in the UK would have a field day with all your knives.
If you ever decide to visit the UK I would suggest you leave them all at home

Today I decided to do some restoration work on a razor I had intended to sort out earlier this week.
Got sidetracked with a frameback that I had to make some scales for.

This razor has an etch on it I wanted to save. The blade is in good condition and the only rusty part is at the usual pivot area. So, minimal cleaning up and a very light polish was the order of the day.

View attachment 935417

The scales are bone and a bit stained. Wasn't 100% sure if I was going to keep them and try to clean them up.
Because of the rust at the pivot I de-pinned them and one side of the scales broke into 3 pieces - brittle.

Plan B, new scales.

Bought another piece of Kirinite to do this during the week.

View attachment 935418
This time the kirinite was the right thickness and needed minimal sanding to get it as thin as I wanted. Easier to cut with the moto saw as well.

View attachment 935422
New wedge, glued and pinned. This stuff has taken a great shine when polished.

View attachment 935426

View attachment 935429

Scales look stunning in the flesh. Kirinite is pretty amazing stuff for making scales, it has a 3d quality to the finish that photographs can't show.
One day I'll do wood, but for now this will do.

Razor still has to be honed. So, no test shave yet.

Oh, wow! Beautiful job of it. Really nice looking scales. Really, really, really nice.

What thickness was the Kirinite to begin with and where did you buy it? Those are nice scales.

Nice blade, too, but you made the scales.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

That may soften the scale too. I'm not sure what would be used to deactivate the Acetone. Hopefully, you wont need to find out, but I guess if you do its too late anyway lol.

The acetone did not soften the epoxy bond but it did a number on the scales. I may have caught it in time so they may or may not be ruined. I'm going to look at them again tomorrow, but they're out of the acetone and air drying.

Live and learn. Not a huge deal. I'm always learning from my mistakes.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

But, officer, I shave with this razor. One never knows when a shave is needed. Yes, officer, I do have shaving soap in my other pocket.