D.R. Harris and Cyril R. Salter Shaving Soap Differences

[Lane101]

I finally used the D.R. Harris Windsor and Cyril R. Salter shaving soaps acquired last fall from Connaught Shaving for the first time. While there is a perception that the soap bases are similar there are significant differences between these products in the areas of ingredients, performance and scent based on my initial use.

First, per my initial use, both of these soaps are very good to excellent. I enjoyed both shaves. While my detailed shave reviews can be seen via the links below, overall the Cyril R. Salter provided better core shaving performance in the areas of lather quality and slickness. The D.R. Harris Windsor had the preferred scent. At half the price Cyril R. Salter is the better value. Sense that the D.R. Harris may work better if I load more soap so I'll see if I can better dial-in this product. Similar lathering effort was used on both for purposes of this comparison.

Looking at ingredients both of these soaps use a complex list of saponified fatty acids that give the impression of a lot of thought on optimizing each soaps performance. However there are significant differences between these soaps based on my two pucks. The Cyril R. Salter has Sodium Tallowate as the #1 ingredient followed by Potassium Stearate vs. Potassium Palmate followed by Sodium Tallowate in the D.R. Harris soap. Many other ingredients also vary or are in a different order. Photo's of the ingredient labels can be seen via the links below.

Based on the various reviews and perceptions of a similar soap base, I was expecting the core shaving performance of these soaps to be similar. While both are good it was a surprise to realize a better level of performance from the Cyril R. Salter soap. I'll report back if I can dial in the Harris Windsor soap to a similar level of performance. With at least similar core shaving performance levels the the cost difference between these makes more sense given the better aroma and variety of scent options offered by D.R. Harris.

If anyone else has used both of these soaps (any D.R. Harris scent), with their current formulations, please chime in with how they compared.


Initial Use Shave Reviews:

D.R. Harris Windsor soap:
What did you use today? +Rate the shave 1-10 (10 best) - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/what-did-you-use-today-rate-the-shave-1-10-10-best.568241/page-2678#post-12240333

Cyril R. Salter soap:

What did you use today? +Rate the shave 1-10 (10 best)

SOTE 5.12.23 7 /10 Somewhat of a rushed shave is the direct result of the lower score. SAS versus the DFS I generally shoot for. Kind of surprised by it since this particular razor is my cart razor in disguise, meaning that my speed has no negative affects. But, tonite it just didn't work that...

www.badgerandblade.com

Photos of the soaps and actual ingredient labels:

NewShaveSoapContainers.jpg

www.badgerandblade.com

DRHarrisWindsorIngredients .jpg

www.badgerandblade.com

CyrilSalterSoapIngredients.jpg

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Keyvan]

I read some threads indicating that the CRS hard soap was manufactured by DRH. I don't know if this is the case, but a manufacturer with excess capacity might enter into a contract manufacturing agreement with another company. In those cases, they are often manufacturing to the customer's specifications. I believe that TFS manufactures some of the Razorock soaps. If that is the case, I am fairly certain that they are also manufacturing to Razorock's specs. It's usually less expensive to use ingredients that the manufacturer has already sourced, but the amounts and the way they are combined could be quite different.

The contract manufacturing approach makes a great deal of sense. Where would one find a manufacturer with more know how and capability than DRH or TFS?

 

[NorthernSoul]

...Looking at ingredients both of these soaps use a complex list of saponified fatty acids that give the impression of a lot of thought on optimizing each soaps performance. However there are significant differences between these soaps based on my two pucks. The Cyril R. Salter has Sodium Tallowate as the #1 ingredient followed by Potassium Stearate vs. Potassium Palmate followed by Sodium Tallowate in the D.R. Harris soap. Many other ingredients also vary or are in a different order. Photo's of the ingredient labels can be seen via the links below.

Based on the various reviews and perceptions of a similar soap base, I was expecting the core shaving performance of these soaps to be similar. While both are good it was a surprise to realize a better level of performance from the Cyril R. Salter soap. I'll report back if I can dial in the Harris Windsor soap to a similar level of performance. With at least similar core shaving performance levels the the cost difference between these makes more sense given the better aroma and variety of scent options offered by D.R. Harris.

If anyone else has used both of these soaps (any D.R. Harris scent), with their current formulations, please chime in with how they compared.

The closest match to the CRS Solid soap in the DR Harris line is the DR Harris Lavender. The fragrance differs a bit. Rumor has it that a UK company called Culmak makes it for both.

Compare with Lavender.

DR Harris Lavender Shaving Soap
Ingredients

Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Glycerin, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Parfum (Fragrance), Coconut Acid, Linalool, Petrolatum, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Potassium Cocoate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Edta, Benzyl Alcohol, O-Tolyl Biguanide, Coumarin, Ci 77891.

 

[Lane101]

The closest match to the CRS Solid soap in the DR Harris line is the DR Harris Lavender. The fragrance differs a bit. Rumor has it that a UK company called Culmak makes it for both.

Compare with Lavender.

DR Harris Lavender Shaving Soap
Ingredients

Sodium Tallowate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Glycerin, Potassium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Sodium Cocoate, Parfum (Fragrance), Coconut Acid, Linalool, Petrolatum, Sodium Palmate, Potassium Palmate, Potassium Cocoate, Sodium Chloride, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Pentasodium Pentetate, Tetrasodium Edta, Benzyl Alcohol, O-Tolyl Biguanide, Coumarin, Ci 77891.

Thanks, I'd read about Culmak possibly making both soaps also. One of the reasons for purchasing Cyril R. Salter soap after acquiring my D.R. Harris puck in an earlier order.

The Lavender ingredients are almost identical to those in my puck of Cyril R. Salter so other than scent it's likely the Lavender would be just as good. Looked at the D.R. Harris U.K. web site and it looks like the Windsor and Sandlewood are listed with the same ingredients that are in my Windsor puck while the other soaps, including Lavender, are listed with those that are in my Cyril R. Salter puck. This the basis for the view that Cyril R. Salter and D.R. Harris soaps have the same base.

@jonwilson posted (link below) that D.R. Harris may have reformulated towards this tallow first formula that is in everything except the Windsor and Sandalwood. If so we should eventually see it in the Windsor and Sandalwood soaps. This means both of these will likely be excellent soaps.

Assuming all the D.R. Harris soaps migrate to the tallow first base then the core shaving performance should be the same as the Cyril R. Salter shaving soap. Up to each of us to decide if the Harris scents offered are worth paying twice the price for what is almost the same soap with the exception of scent.

Bottom line these are all very good to excellent soaps.


dr harris reformulated? - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/dr-harris-reformulated.634075/

P.S. Both Connaught and D.R. Harris are out-of-stock on Windsor refills - wonder if Windsor will have the new tallow first ingredients when back in stock?

 

[Lane101]

I read some threads indicating that the CRS hard soap was manufactured by DRH. I don't know if this is the case, but a manufacturer with excess capacity might enter into a contract manufacturing agreement with another company. In those cases, they are often manufacturing to the customer's specifications. I believe that TFS manufactures some of the Razorock soaps. If that is the case, I am fairly certain that they are also manufacturing to Razorock's specs. It's usually less expensive to use ingredients that the manufacturer has already sourced, but the amounts and the way they are combined could be quite different.

The contract manufacturing approach makes a great deal of sense. Where would one find a manufacturer with more know how and capability than DRH or TFS?

Hi Keyvan, current rumors are that Culmak makes both the DRH and CRS soaps as posted by @NorthernSoul above. No firm confirmation of this.

To find soap manufacturers requires digging into a variety of online research, publications and corporate web sites. See my earlier post below where I researched SV to confirm that it is the real deal that likely manufactures its own soaps as well as products for other soap producers as an example of this. Second link shows some analysis of Arko as another example.

Stirling makes its own soaps, easy to research, just go to their web site and view the annual videos of the manufacturing operation that the post.

Saponificio Varesino Research Summary:

Sebum Gold. Worth it?

I think it’s a great opportunity to learn a life lesson from first hand experience. 😏 ... and feel ripped off in the process. That's certainly stupid money for a soap.

www.badgerandblade.com

Arko Corp Video Analysis:

Interesting Evyap (makes Arko) Corporate Video (in English)

Came across this public relations corporate video in English that outlines everything Evyap, the manufacturer of Arko does, including it's multi-nationall presence, that may be of interest. Key takeaways are: Evyap has a multi-national presence with manufacturing in Turkey, Egypt and its...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Keyvan]

I also have a couple of Culmak pucks, but I have never tried them. My impression is that CRS generally gets better reviews.

Because soap manufacturing is a mature
industry, it would make sense that it has consolidated in GB. I wonder who makes MWF?

 

[Lane101]

I also have a couple of Culmak pucks, but I have never tried them. My impression is that CRS generally gets better reviews.

Because soap manufacturing is a mature
industry, it would make sense that it has consolidated in GB. I wonder who makes MWF?

Just replied to your question via the post linked below in the MWF history thread. Do report on the Culmak shave soap when you get to it - was tempted to throw a puck in one of my Connaught orders last fall.

Who has history of Mitchell's Wool Fat Soap, Ltd.

Having their soap outsourced and made to spec makes sense considering the modest building they reside in. I don’t see this as a negative at all. You have a large industrial process with presumably the utmost cleanliness, precise ingredients, consistent processes etc., all leaving us with the...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Pedigree]

I also have a couple of Culmak pucks, but I have never tried them. My impression is that CRS generally gets better reviews.

Because soap manufacturing is a mature
industry, it would make sense that it has consolidated in GB. I wonder who makes MWF?

I'm pretty sure MWF makes MWF. I could be wrong though.

 

[Keyvan]

I'm pretty sure MWF makes MWF. I could be wrong though.

Whoever makes it is doing a good job

 

[Lane101]

I'm pretty sure MWF makes MWF. I could be wrong though.

Per posts on the MWF history thread, link in post above, it's likely they contract the manufacturing out. Only 6 employees and the equipment for triple milled soaps is fairly expensive and not likely something they own per their public balance sheet.

 

[Pedigree]

Didn't realize they were that small?

 

[Shave Souffle]

Just replied to your question via the post linked below in the MWF history thread. Do report on the Culmak shave soap when you get to it - was tempted to throw a puck in one of my Connaught orders last fall.

Who has history of Mitchell's Wool Fat Soap, Ltd.

Having their soap outsourced and made to spec makes sense considering the modest building they reside in. I don’t see this as a negative at all. You have a large industrial process with presumably the utmost cleanliness, precise ingredients, consistent processes etc., all leaving us with the...

www.badgerandblade.com

I bought some of the Culmak pucks in the black plastic bowl when they were on clearance in late 2021 (nov-dec). They were literally like $2.99 or something ridiculous. For more than half on 2022 I was using only that and I would switch off between that and Wilkinson Sword Blue bowl. Both were nice and that was back when I didn’t buy soap like I do everything else.

 

[Lane101]

Update on D.R. Harris Windsor shaving soap. Used it for a second time today loading for an extra 30 seconds, roughly a minute and a half with my 26mm synthetic. This loaded a lot more soap compared to my first shave with this soap producing much better lather that was a lot closer to that from my Cyril R. Salter puck. Good overall shave. Will see if a boar brush works better next time I use this soap. Sensing D.R. Harris's tallow second formula takes more effort to lather compared to the tallow first formula that's in the Cyril R. Salter soap.

 

[Keyvan]

Update on D.R. Harris Windsor shaving soap. Used it for a second time today loading for an extra 30 seconds, roughly a minute and a half with my 26mm synthetic. This loaded a lot more soap compared to my first shave with this soap producing much better lather that was a lot closer to that from my Cyril R. Salter puck. Good overall shave. Will see if a boar brush works better next time I use this soap. Sensing D.R. Harris's tallow second formula takes more effort to lather compared to the tallow first formula that's in the Cyril R. Salter soap.

One thing that I notice about DRH is that it is a very hard puck, maybe harder than MWF. My MWF puck develops some cracks and roughness when it dries out, the DRH puck is perfectly smooth and pretty much unperturbed with use. It may just take longer to load than other soaps.

 

[Pedigree]

One thing that I notice about DRH is that it is a very hard puck, maybe harder than MWF. My MWF puck develops some cracks and roughness when it dries out, the DRH puck is perfectly smooth and pretty much unperturbed with use. It may just take longer to load than other soaps.

You are correct that it is a harder puck then a MWF puck.

 

[madmedic]

Hate to report...bu sometime over the last few months Culmak changed their Palm formula and now it is a very poor bath soap. MWF has also lost its Tallow. Can't see DRH surviving as it is

 

[AJMiami]

Hate to report...bu sometime over the last few months Culmak changed their Palm formula and now it is a very poor bath soap. MWF has also lost its Tallow. Can't see DRH surviving as it is

I agree. The writing is on the wall. It’s just a matter of time

 

[Keyvan]

You will be happy to know that I ordered 6 pucks of CRS based on the info in this thread.

 

[NorthernSoul]

You will be happy to know that I ordered 6 pucks of CRS based on the info in this thread.

Proably a good idea to stock up, given the current trend. I'd do the same, except I've got enough soap for years already.

 

[Frank Shaves]

I recently stocked up on tallow based soaps including DRH and CRS. Still have not tried the CRS, but DRH is a good soap with solid performance.

That said, the older tallow formula Tabac is still king with its creamy consistency. I also like Stirling's mutton base - also creamy.

I tried the new vegan formula Tabac for the first time last night. It is a very nice soap and still has a creamy consistency. My initial reaction is that the tallow formula has a slight edge in terms of performance and lather stability.