Cursive instruction: Should it be in the schools?

[rajagra]

plus people that tend to write illegible cursive script .. their print script is not much better as well IMO

Good point. Also, if they don't learn cursive, they won't learn that printing is intended to be the more legible version of writing. So they won't make the same effort to make it neat ... so it will just slide down in status to become the scrawl that cursive was before.

on documents I always start cursive till I see the fine print telling me to write in capital print letters argghh

Don't forget ... black pen not blue. Oops. Did it again!

 

[Vercin]

Good point. Also, if they don't learn cursive, they won't learn that printing is intended to be the more legible version of writing. So they won't make the same effort to make it neat ... so it will just slide down in status to become the scrawl that cursive was before.


Don't forget ... black pen not blue. Oops. Did it again!

there is no such regulation here .. but on exams at university I had to use blue pen .. pencils and black was not allowed.

 

[suits123]

there is no such regulation here .. but on exams at university I had to use blue pen .. pencils and black was not allowed.

In interesting, because of photocopying?

To the OP question: I always hated writing cursive in elementary school. Then I really hated it when I got to middle school and high school and they told us to print. And then finding out in college you need to print, etc. The only thing I ever used cursive for was my signature. But now that I have started using fountain pens I have very much enjoyed writing in cursive and almost "re-taught" myself to make sure it was legible. So I guess in retrospect it should be taught. But teachers should be harsher on hand writing legibility. My $.02

 

[Vercin]

In interesting, because of photocopying?

don't know the reason about the black ink .. but pencil was prohibited because its not permanent .. for example someone can review the written at latter time

 

[Bob L.]

I'm pushing 60. I'm set in my ways. I am a true curmudgeon. (I can even spell curmudgeon.) That said, here's a question for our younger members who can't write in cursive script.

What happened when you tried to buy a car, sign your driver's license, acquire a mortgage, rent an apartment, sign your insurance policies, rent a safety deposit box, you get the idea...?
* Has anyone done this by printing your name and / or making your "mark"?
* Did you learn how to sign your name in cursive so as to do these tasks?
* What happens when you say you can't sign your name?

 

[rajagra]

Yes, the black ink rule tends to be on official forms like tax returns, and it's to make photocopies clearer. Normal blue pens should copy OK, but it's true that when you take photocopies of photocopies you need the original to be as contrasty as possible.
But who takes photocopies of photocopies any more? Things like that will be scanned into digital form.
I just checked online ... UK tax returns still say to use black ink ... and capital letters.

 

[Vercin]

This is my official signature .. as you say for forms, ID etc .. It's an G (&#1043 and and S(&#1057 with a hint of T (second letter in my last name). I thought everyone just "doodle" this in high school (from my experience) .. and this is not how I write cursive.
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[rajagra]

Maybe it's worth explaining WHY people of my generation (age 48) might see those who can't use cursive as childish and poorly educated. Now don't get het up...
We were taught to write almost as soon as we started infant school, alongside such critical skills as finger painting.
It wasn't even described to us as "cursive" (that's fancy wording to an infant.) It was called "grown-up writing." That kind of thinking sticks, whatever the present arguments against learning cursive are.
If you use printing for inappropriate purposes (e.g. greeting cards) it will be seen by older people as childish. That's just how it is.

As for poorly educated ... if you can't write cursive, then it's something you weren't taught. By definition there's a gap in your education. There are still plenty of employers who will see that sticking out like a sore thumb and they will question your overall education because of it. Even if they won't come out and say it openly.

 

[Vercin]

Maybe it's worth explaining WHY people of my generation (age 48) might see those who can't use cursive as childish and poorly educated. Now don't get het up...
We were taught to write almost as soon as we started infant school, alongside such critical skills as finger painting.
It wasn't even described to us as "cursive" (that's fancy wording to an infant.) It was called "grown-up writing." That kind of thinking sticks, whatever the present arguments against learning cursive are.
If you use printing for inappropriate purposes (e.g. greeting cards) it will be seen by older people as childish. That's just how it is.

As for poorly educated ... if you can't write cursive, then it's something you weren't taught. By definition there's a gap in your education. There are still plenty of employers who will see that sticking out like a sore thumb and they will question your overall education because of it. Even if they won't come out and say it openly.

im 30 (almost) and the same principles apply as you say

 

[jkingrph]

Yes, the black ink rule tends to be on official forms like tax returns, and it's to make photocopies clearer. Normal blue pens should copy OK, but it's true that when you take photocopies of photocopies you need the original to be as contrasty as possible.
But who takes photocopies of photocopies any more? Things like that will be scanned into digital form.
I just checked online ... UK tax returns still say to use black ink ... and capital letters.

I signed some official forms, for our CDC , Communicable Disease Center, and they required a color other than black for the original signature.

 

[jkingrph]

I'm pushing 60. I'm set in my ways. I am a true curmudgeon. (I can even spell curmudgeon.) That said, here's a question for our younger members who can't write in cursive script.

What happened when you tried to buy a car, sign your driver's license, acquire a mortgage, rent an apartment, sign your insurance policies, rent a safety deposit box, you get the idea...?
* Has anyone done this by printing your name and / or making your "mark"?
* Did you learn how to sign your name in cursive so as to do these tasks?
* What happens when you say you can't sign your name?

I'm pushing 68 and you beat me to the punch with these comments. I could not agree more.

 

[Relentless]

Script is an invaluable skill for other disciplines besides computer focused careers. In the sciences, if you can't hammer out legible equations with quick descriptions you cannot likely pass university exams, and try to see how long this will take you with a computer. Or try jotting down some chemical combinations for bio-chem... quickly on a computer. Everyone cannot type their way through their life, so why pretend that it's not important to learn to use "cursive" in grade/elementary school. Communication skills are communication skills.

 

[Eeyore]

Did you learn how to sign your name in cursive so as to do these tasks?
* What happens when you say you can't sign your name?

I just bought another motorcycle (well, a year ago). I did not have to sign anything.

I don't think that your inability to write cursive will prevent you from buying or renting anything

But I do think that it is a desired skill ... our societies were built on handwriting.

 

[Doc4]

Yes, gotta teach them youngin's how to curse properly.

... I tell you what!

I'm pushing 60. I'm set in my ways. I am a true curmudgeon. (I can even spell curmudgeon.) That said, here's a question for our younger members who can't write in cursive script.

What happened when you tried to buy a car, sign your driver's license, acquire a mortgage, rent an apartment, sign your insurance policies, rent a safety deposit box, you get the idea...?
* Has anyone done this by printing your name and / or making your "mark"?
* Did you learn how to sign your name in cursive so as to do these tasks?
* What happens when you say you can't sign your name?

Having seen more than my fair share of signatures over the past few decades, including those of lots of curmudgeons, I can say that the prevailing tendency is to sign a "signature" that looks a lot more like an indecipherable squiggle than an elementary school exercise with india ink.

 

[cody6766]

In the sciences, if you can't hammer out legible equations with quick descriptions you cannot likely pass university exams, and try to see how long this will take you with a computer. Or try jotting down some chemical combinations for bio-chem... quickly on a computer. Everyone cannot type their way through their life,

That is incredibly true. I was able to take notes on my laptop for the 'easy' classes like English, History, Psych and Humanities. There was no way I could take notes on the computer in O-Chem, Genetics, Cell Bio or Vert. Evolution. Hell, that last one required a spiral notebook, the prof's printed handouts, the lab book and occasionally the text book to be laid out in front of me to keep up with the barrage of info and depictions that needed to be added to different sources.

I'm 28. I learned to print between kindergarten and 1st grade. In 2nd grade cursive was introduced. By 3rd grade, cursive was required on all assignments and that carried through 6th grade. Starting Jr High, we were able to decide how we wanted to write. The only requirement was it had to be legible. I developed a print/cursive blend that is faster (for me) than cursive or print alone. It's also more legible. I would have struggled to keep up with the pace of notes in college if it wasn't for my hybrid style, part of which is cursive. Kids will learn to type. It doesn't have to be hammered in like cursive does. Typing is a mechanical action that will eventually be learned by requiring kids to type reports and papers. Cursive has to be nurtured early on to have its impact, IMO. It also teaches task focus and attention to detail...something typing does not do.

I will also argue that kids are not required to learn much more than when the older generations were in school. I was exposed to a HUGE amount of subject material at my public school in grade school. We covered all of the basics and still had time for fun science projects, art projects, PE, music, and other things that expounded upon those basics hammered into us. I was also lucky enough to go to a gifted program once a week that taught things like creative writing, vertebrate zoology, paleontology, advanced literature, physics, chemistry and geology. The school day was broken into 4 periods, each class was chosen by the student based on their interests. I was still responsible for my regular school work and kept up with my advanced work. I'm no rocket scientist and I managed to do it and still play little league sports and play in the woods. Kids today are no different. They're just treated differently.

whoo...sorry for the rant. People half assing education just rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Relentless]

I agree Cody; there is plenty of time to teach these things to children in school. If this was NOT being taught in my child's school, I sure as hell would take matters into my own hands. If you figure conservatively; roughly 50% of learning during a child's school years takes place outside the classroom. Good or bad; it is still internalized.

Think about this for just a minute... IF schools by law stopped teaching english formally in school; would you be satisfied with the quality of education? IF schools by law stopped teaching mathematics; would you not teach it at home? This does not mean to imply that handwriting is as important as mathematics. I'm just fighting against the ridiculousness of believing that school is the only place for a child to learn how to properly hold a pen or pencil while forming letters. Likewise; should it even be necessary in today's world to teach typing in our schools?

 

[Doc4]

Kids will learn to type. It doesn't have to be hammered in like cursive does. Typing is a mechanical action that will eventually be learned by requiring kids to type reports and papers. Cursive has to be nurtured early on to have its impact, IMO. It also teaches task focus and attention to detail...something typing does not do.

People half assing education just rubs me the wrong way.

A proper typing class in grade 8 was one of the best things I ever did in junior high. While I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiments on teaching cursive writing, IMHO teaching proper typing is another thing that schools ought to be doing. Hunt-&-peck is worse than fist-hold printing ...

 

[Eeyore]

Think about this for just a minute... IF schools by law stopped teaching english formally in school; would you be satisfied with the quality of education? IF schools by law stopped teaching mathematics; would you not teach it at home? This does not mean to imply that handwriting is as important as mathematics. I'm just fighting against the ridiculousness of believing that school is the only place for a child to learn how to properly hold a pen or pencil while forming letters. Likewise; should it even be necessary in today's world to teach typing in our schools?

The problem, of course, is that some school teachers do not encourage parents to enhance the teaching in the classroom. You, as a parent, are not to mess with their educational system.

The primary school of my oldest didn't teach English. We decided to buy a language trainer privately, one that is being used by primary schools. When my wife discussed this with the teacher, the school was not supportive at all.

Of course kids learn a lot outside of the classroom. But if schools would drop teaching cursive handwriting, I am not sure if they would encourage parents to teach their children that skill themselves.

 

[rajagra]

I worked more than 20 years in IT before I taught myself to touch-type properly. It wasn't a problem.
Regular typing as done by 99% of people is a skill that teaches itself. If you use a keyboard, you can't help but memorize the layout reasonably well. Many untrained typists are incredibly fast despite terrible form.
I still think it's sensible to get a good start by learning good typing early on, but it isn't strictly necessary. Only a little more useful than cursive, in fact.

I think we're going backwards however - text input on touch-screen devices is incredibly bad. Yet it can only be a matter of time before they replace physical keyboards altogether.

 

[Craig9802]

My third-grade daughter has been learning cursive the past few months, and I can see that it is a painful process for her. Her printing is decent, and her typing/keyboarding skills are minimal at this point. Though finishing assignments takes her a long time, I try to remind her that communication is an important skill throughout life, whether it's written, verbal, or electronic, and she needs to keep trying. My handwriting didn't develop some sort of maturity until college and after, when I realized that "good enough" really wasn't how I wanted to live. I suppose my two daughters will have to learn that lesson too. Back to topic, I think they should continue to teach cursive - it's as important to communication as taking English and Speech, even though public speaking may well become a moot point by the time my kids are my age (outside of the media and content creation fields).