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Current Production Naniwa Super Stones (Plastic Base Included)

So as some of you may know you can still get the Naniwa super stone series with the plastic base included. Are these any different than the earlier version of the super stone? I have the 10,000 stone and I believe there’s a mention of a ceramic binder as far as I can tell (ceramic/resin combination?). I kind of enjoy using the stone because the plastic base is a bit of a novelty. Does anyone else have any experience or information in regards to the composition of the current iteration of the super stone?
 

haggis

Contributor
Call me John Snow (I know nothing) but I recently accidentally bought two 12k stones, one SuperStone (in a cardboard box) and one Naniwa Gouken Kagayaki in the plastic box. Other than different part numbers stamped on the side I'll be darned if I can tell any difference between them visually or by touch.

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So yes, the 12k is the same. Now the stones offered on the plastic stands only go up to 10k for some reason. I have the Naniwa 5K Sharpening Stone series (20mm) that’s widely available but the old-school looking stones are only available from Japan. I’m going to order the 5K 10mm Super Stone (on the plastic base) very soon. I’m very interested to see what the difference might be...
For some reason I don’t think the stones below 12K are the same but again I’m not sure. Maybe I’ll just do as you had mentioned and just check the part numbers.
 
The descriptions in your link says the
Call me John Snow (I know nothing) but I recently accidentally bought two 12k stones, one SuperStone (in a cardboard box) and one Naniwa Gouken Kagayaki in the plastic box. Other than different part numbers stamped on the side I'll be darned if I can tell any difference between them visually or by touch.

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The descriptions in your link says the Kagayaki is a slightly harder stone than the SS.
 

haggis

Contributor
The descriptions in your link says the Kagayaki is a slightly harder stone than the SS.
Reading comprehension fail on my part :( I'm normally more detail oriented than to miss something so clear.

Is there a difference in the way they perform?
Hopefully somebody might know what the implications of 'sligthly harder' vs softer are — I'd be the last person to ask. Not least because I haven't used the SuperStone at all. I've only used the other one so far and I don't really know what I'm doing in the first place :p The Gouken made a bevel fairly shiny on my zombie razor, that's about all I can say.
 
Reading comprehension fail on my part :( I'm normally more detail oriented than to miss something so clear.


Hopefully somebody might know what the implications of 'sligthly harder' vs softer are — I'd be the last person to ask. Not least because I haven't used the SuperStone at all. I've only used the other one so far and I don't really know what I'm doing in the first place :p The Gouken made a bevel fairly shiny on my zombie razor, that's about all I can say.
Thats why we are here brother, to help each other!

As far as a bit harder I know sharpening a kitchen knife if your not very careful the SS will gouge. I assume that's not true of the other.
 
When the 12k Kagayaki first came out, it had the same product numbers on the side as the 12k super stone. Might have been called the specialty stone at that time, I can't remember.
People that I know who had both said they were the same stone.
Now the Kagayaki has a new product number.
I have not heard anyone say they can tell the stone is harder. I won't ever buy another 10mm Nani so I won't have the chance to test. I have a hard time believing that Nani reformulated that 1 stone all by itself. But, who knows?

The new (current) Super Stones are 'supposed' to have the newer formulation that we saw with the Specialty Stones when they first came out.
In theory - less prone to warping, more consistent, yadda yadda yadda.
In reality, I think the Specialty Stones warped more.

Then Nani bounced back to the Super Stone Moniker...
The 10mm Super Stones still warp though.

FWIW - I have a 20mm 12k and it has not warped 'yet'.
I have had several sets of Nani Super/Specialty stones - it is not unusual to find one dry, one slick, one baked too much so 1/16" has to be lapped off, another with a front and back that feel different, and so on.
 
When the 12k Kagayaki first came out, it had the same product numbers on the side as the 12k super stone. Might have been called the specialty stone at that time, I can't remember.
People that I know who had both said they were the same stone.
Now the Kagayaki has a new product number.
I have not heard anyone say they can tell the stone is harder. I won't ever buy another 10mm Nani so I won't have the chance to test. I have a hard time believing that Nani reformulated that 1 stone all by itself. But, who knows?

The new (current) Super Stones are 'supposed' to have the newer formulation that we saw with the Specialty Stones when they first came out.
In theory - less prone to warping, more consistent, yadda yadda yadda.
In reality, I think the Specialty Stones warped more.

Then Nani bounced back to the Super Stone Moniker...
The 10mm Super Stones still warp though.

FWIW - I have a 20mm 12k and it has not warped 'yet'.
I have had several sets of Nani Super/Specialty stones - it is not unusual to find one dry, one slick, one baked too much so 1/16" has to be lapped off, another with a front and back that feel different, and so on.
So I have the 10K super stone on the plastic base as you can see in the picture. The feel is completely different than the current production sharpening stone line. It doesn’t remind me of any other Naniwa from the sharpening/specialty stone series at all. The closest parallel I can think of is the 12,000 grit specialty stone. But again what stands out in my mind is the fact that the 10K that I have is described as having a ceramic binder or some kind of ceramic/resin combination. Again I have not been able to find any information beyond a brief product description on the vendors site. I did speak with Lynn a couple of times about this and he was of the opinion that the current production super stone on the plastic base are virtually identical to the ones years ago. I just ordered the 5000 grit super stone on the plastic base just yesterday. It’s coming directly from Japan because I can’t get them anywhere else. I can’t wait to do a side-by-side comparison with the 20 mm sharpening stone that I have in the same grit. I will be glad to post an update as soon as I can get my hands on it.
 
I would not believe that Naniwa is using two distincly different formulas for two lines of Super Stones at the same time. I might believe that the based-stones sold in Japan are actually old stones (original Super Stones) that had not sold before the "Specialty Stones" came out, and just re-boxed. But with Naniwa's consistency in production being all over the place, it would be impossible to say what's what without being in their factory when the stones are being manufactured and then packed. The only SS series I'd consider buying though is the 20mm versions. Or if possible the older 25mm variety. All variants of the 10mm stones have been depressing as hell for me. The stones on bases are not to my liking, the bases flex and make lapping difficult. Even the 1/5k combo warped, and it is technically a 20mm stone. The original series has warping issues, so do the new ones. Someone I know had a 20mm 12 warp like a banana.
Just for fun I just checked my 20mm 12k. I haven't had it out for a minute, and it is not as flat as it was when I last used it. I don't know what they're (Nani) doing or not doing with their stones but they need to fix it. I have to go lap this plastic brick now.
 
I might believe that the based-stones sold in Japan are actually old stones (original Super Stones) that had not sold before the "Specialty Stones" came out, and just re-boxed. But with Naniwa's consistency in production being all over the place, it would be impossible to say what's what without being in their factory when the stones are being manufactured and then packed.
Yeah this is pretty much where my speculation is at. I suspect that the base-mounted stones are likely unchanged from back in the day. As far as current stones packaged as gray-boxed Super Stones vs the Sharpening/Specialty Stone series being any different, I haven’t a clue but I doubt it as well. Also I hate that all of you guys have had so many issues with flatness with the stones. I actually have a 3/8 combo and I can pretty much count on having all kinds of weirdness that has to be lapped out. But for those occasions that I just feel like using those stones the cost/benefits issue is generally worth it for me at least.
 
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I don't think they are "unchanged" from the old line.
I think there is a possibility that what you are buying might be old stock.
There is also a possibility that Nani's production inconsistencies are churning out a myriad of surface conditions and textures throughout the stones from batch to batch.
Which is what I think I have here with this 20mm 12k. It's flat enough for gov't work but it's a pity that this stone has such a consistency issue. Reminds me of a 25mm 12k I had long ago - had to take 3/32" off it to get to a 'good spot'. This one comes to me second hand at a good-enough price, but if it was new I'd send it back.
 
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