Curiosity has me thinking about a straight....

[Pottertons]

For those of you who are experienced with both straights and Safety's, I've been wondering if a straight provides a smoother, more efficient shave. Especially for a first pass.
I've been thinking about the basic design of a safety razor and a couple of things have come to mind.

1) Doesn't the bar pretty much push/remove the majority of the lather away before the blade even touches the face; thus creating a greater potential for irritation because the protective barrier is now gone?

2) Doesn't the bar also, force the hair that's about to be sliced, to lay flat against the face and keep it that way before the blade passes over? Thus allowing less of the strands to be removed at once?; which could potentially warrant the need to apply a bit more pressure than a straight, just to ensure that you're actually catching the hairs properly?

Interested to hear your thoughts.
I know there's really, only one way to find out but I figured it would be best to get some feedback from the pros first.

I've cross-posted this, so some of you may see the same post elsewhere.

 

[ScottChapin]

I’m new to straights. I’ve been doing single passes on weekends for 8 months and finishing with DEs

I do not notice the bar pushing lather out of the way. I do notice that it squares your face up to the blade and you HAVE to stretch your face when using a straight to accomplish the same.

My straights to get closer and my overall shave is much closer than when using a DE for all three passes.

I’m having problems getting my chin with a straight and wind up nicking myself a wee bit trying to be over zealous. When I figure it out, I’ll try three passes with the straight.

XTG passes intimidate me with straights and those are key to getting a smooth jaw with a DE. So that’s another thing I need to wrap my head around.


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[Luecke2326]

I shaved with a DE for 4 years before I started using a straight almost exclusively for the last two years. I can say that I do receive a much closer first pass, especially if the razor has a great edge on it. As far as the safety bar pushing the lather out of the way, I’d say it shouldn’t if you have the proper angle of attack. Now if you have a 1/4 thick lather on your face, yeah it’ll push the lather out of the way.
I hope you’ll give straights a try, using them is the other 51% of the shaving hobby.


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[Pottertons]

If I were to use a safety with no blade, I'd imagine that the majority of the lather would still be removed, which is what has me curious.

 

[BDWoody]

I switched from DE's to straights earlier this year, and am about 70 shaves in at this point. I would say the whole shave is just generally more efficient overall.
It is easier for me to really see what the blade is doing, especially now that I tend towards a much thinner lather. I got one of those cheap stick on the wall 2x bathroom mirrors, and while I am using it less and less, I found it very helpful to really keep a close eye on what the hell I was doing as my muscle memory was getting better established...
After another month or so, I will go back and try the last DE I was using (British Open Comb Aristocrat) and see how it compares.
I would say that while I felt I was using a light touch with the Aristocrat, I learned what a light touch is from using straights.
When I say straight, I am including the Feather DX shavette as a straight...which is what I am primarily using.

It may that the improvement in my shave is a result of improved technique with both the lather and/or the mechanics, but either way it has been awesome, and I recommend it to all shavers.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

They are very different shaves. Both have the same intended destination, but get there in different ways.

I'm a long time DE user, and new to straights. The handling is very different, but there's a lot of commonality too. I make the same lather for both, the same "weight" on the skin, and of course my beard map (hair growth pattern) remains the same

Aside from the handling differences, with a DE, I take a three pass route, whereas with straight/shavette, it's more like 1.5 to 1.75 passes, and I stick in one area until it's done, and then move onto the next, rather than shaving it all, then doing it all again from a different direction.

As to the comb question, I tend to use closed comb rather than open comb on a double edged razor, but I try not to scrape it on my face ahead of the blade - so the blade is against the skin, but the comb is very slightly lifted. Yes, it might nudge some of the lather out of the way, but all you need is a continual film on the skin to lubricate the passing of the blade.

 

[jdp93]

I have only been using a straight since February, so I am still learning to use a straight. My shaves with a straight are closer than with any other safety razor, and I am at the point where I don't usually have any nicks or irritation. There may be something to your theory about the safety bar pushing the lather out of the way, but that probably depends on your skill with a safety razor. I think if you do it right, you will still have a thin layer of lather left when the blade makes contact with the skin.

 

[GearNoir]

For those of you who are experienced with both straights and Safety's, I've been wondering if a straight provides a smoother, more efficient shave. Especially for a first pass.
I've been thinking about the basic design of a safety razor and a couple of things have come to mind.

1) Doesn't the bar pretty much push/remove the majority of the lather away before the blade even touches the face; thus creating a greater potential for irritation because the protective barrier is now gone?

2) Doesn't the bar also, force the hair that's about to be sliced, to lay flat against the face and keep it that way before the blade passes over? Thus allowing less of the strands to be removed at once?; which could potentially warrant the need to apply a bit more pressure than a straight, just to ensure that you're actually catching the hairs properly?

Interested to hear your thoughts.
I know there's really, only one way to find out but I figured it would be best to get some feedback from the pros first.

I've cross-posted this, so some of you may see the same post elsewhere.

I’ll throw in my $0.02:

It’s really not so simple unfortunately. The basic answer IMO is that DEs were the natural progression after straight as they provided the same shave but needed less skill for that same level of achievement. However both razor types do greatly rely on the skill of the user, which is why answers will vary if you ask which is smoother and/or more efficient.

Generally a DE shaver will find the skill curve to switch to a straight far more difficult than if a straight user were to switch to a DE.

SRs are naturally the most efficient because you are dealing with the blade only, but to find a level of perfect smoothness takes a lot of skill. DEs sacrifice some of their efficiency to provide an initial amount of smoothness right from the get-go, but to find a DE razor’s maximum efficiency takes a lot of skill. Both will require multiple passes, both can be efficient, both can be smooth, both hypothetically produce the same shave with maximum user proficiency (barring a negative exposure DE).

Now to your other questions:

1) With little to no pressure, the bar of a DE will smooth out the lather and stretch out the cutting area for the blade to do the rest of the work. Yes, the bar removes the majority of the excess of the lather. Generally, not all of the soap is removed before the blade cuts if done properly. This is one reason however that a good soap is necessary. A good soap will leave a good amount of residual slickness so that regardless of the shaver’s skill and the amount of actual lather on the shave surface, the skin will still be aided and ready to have the blade moved across it.

2) Yes, the bar of a DE pushes the hair down some, but it also raises it a bit, allowing the edge to cut closer to the root of the hair of short strokes are made. In long strokes, with fairly long stubble/hair, yes, the razor might clog or might need an extra pass over the SR to reach a more manageable stubble length. But then, let’s not forget that OCs exist partially for this reason. The bar also stretches and flattens the skin of the shave area to reduce nicks/cuts, something that has to be done by hand with an SR.

 

[RumpleBearskin]

Just adding anan addition $0.02 ...

While it may be true that:

DEs were the natural progression after straight as they provided the same shave but needed less skill for that same level of achievement.

I'm not sure that I agree...

Note that DE razors are called "safety" razors. I think all can agree that the "safety razor' is indeed far more safe than anything that preceded its introduction. I believe that this, rather than a superior, or even equivalent, shave is the reason that it was so widely adopted.

Having developed DE technique for 4 years and then switching to straights 4 months ago, I find the shave with a straight to be far superior (once a certain level of proficiency is developed).

 

[GearNoir]

Just adding anan addition $0.02 ...

While it may be true that:

I'm not sure that I agree...

Note that DE razors are called "safety" razors. I think all can agree that the "safety razor' is indeed far more safe than anything that preceded its introduction. I believe that this, rather than a superior, or even equivalent, shave is the reason that it was so widely adopted.

Having developed DE technique for 4 years and then switching to straights 4 months ago, I find the shave with a straight to be far superior (once a certain level of proficiency is developed).

It may help to pinpoint exactly what you feel is superior. Is it comfort? Efficiency? BBS now where you weren’t previously getting BBS? All of the above?

We must also hold in tension that some feel the opposite as well. For instance, I enjoy both styles of shave, but readily admit that my DE shaves last longer overall than my SR shaves, though I will have gotten a BBS with both.

This is why I firmly believe that each style is basically equivalent, qualitative differences otherwise getting lost in individual preference and skill level.

As for the moniker “safety” I think was chosen just a marketing gimmick, though it does hold some marginal truth. I don’t think it can be denied that DEs have a greatly reduced learning curve and increased convenience to them, which are further additions to why they were adopted more widely.

 

[dundak]

I shave daily. Have been using a straight for decades. I find that with either I can get the same shave. The only time I find a straight more efficient is when I have multi day growth, which is very rare.

I like straights because I can go months between honings. No fiddling with blades, less moving parts and gives a better feeling of self sufficiency. Small factors like that make it more enjoyable for me. Time wise that shaves take the same amount of time.


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[Pottertons]

I’ll throw in my $0.02:

It’s really not so simple unfortunately. The basic answer IMO is that DEs were the natural progression after straight as they provided the same shave but needed less skill for that same level of achievement. However both razor types do greatly rely on the skill of the user, which is why answers will vary if you ask which is smoother and/or more efficient.

Generally a DE shaver will find the skill curve to switch to a straight far more difficult than if a straight user were to switch to a DE.

SRs are naturally the most efficient because you are dealing with the blade only, but to find a level of perfect smoothness takes a lot of skill. DEs sacrifice some of their efficiency to provide an initial amount of smoothness right from the get-go, but to find a DE razor’s maximum efficiency takes a lot of skill. Both will require multiple passes, both can be efficient, both can be smooth, both hypothetically produce the same shave with maximum user proficiency (barring a negative exposure DE).

Now to your other questions:

1) With little to no pressure, the bar of a DE will smooth out the lather and stretch out the cutting area for the blade to do the rest of the work. Yes, the bar removes the majority of the excess of the lather. Generally, not all of the soap is removed before the blade cuts if done properly. This is one reason however that a good soap is necessary. A good soap will leave a good amount of residual slickness so that regardless of the shaver’s skill and the amount of actual lather on the shave surface, the skin will still be aided and ready to have the blade moved across it.

2) Yes, the bar of a DE pushes the hair down some, but it also raises it a bit, allowing the edge to cut closer to the root of the hair of short strokes are made. In long strokes, with fairly long stubble/hair, yes, the razor might clog or might need an extra pass over the SR to reach a more manageable stubble length. But then, let’s not forget that OCs exist partially for this reason. The bar also stretches and flattens the skin of the shave area to reduce nicks/cuts, something that has to be done by hand with an SR.

I like how you've broken down your response. Thanks. Although, I am a little confused with "....but it also raises it (the hair) a bit...."
Unfortunately, I don't get what you mean by this.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Straights are just plain badass. There is a lot of elitism involved. When you routinely shave with a straight you are a man among men, head and shoulders above the thundering bleating herd. Yes I think a single pass with a straight is a better shave than a single pass with a DE. But a lot of that depends on how sharp the straight is, and mastery of the straight takes a little more time and effort than a DE. Also there is more ancilliary gear to buy and maintain. But all in all I think it is a superior experience.

 

[GearNoir]

I like how you've broken down your response. Thanks. Although, I am a little confused with "....but it also raises it (the hair) a bit...."
Unfortunately, I don't get what you mean by this.

Imagine a pool noodle half buried in some mud patch, being approached by a giant razor. The part of the noodle that is deepest in the mud has a little bit of a flare to it.

As the bar of the giant razor pushes gently but firmly over the noodle and begins to lay the noodle out horizontally, the noodle will stretch out a bit but it will also begin to try and break free from the mud patch a bit, raising out a little of what was stuck in the mud. The blade of the giant razor passes by, cutting the noodle right where it extends up out of the mud. The suction of the mud pulls what’s left of the noodle back into it original place, perfectly level with the mud surface or, more likely, a bit under the level of the mud’s surface.

Another example. If you have long hairs on your arm or leg, firmly run your finger over and past them. Note that at a certain point the follicle begins to raise under the skin, toward the base of the hair. Moisturized skin is very elastic allowing for some movement of the hair. This is how you get various levels of BBS or BBS’ that can last longer than others. Moisturized skin pushes the hair out, exposing some of the shaft that was withdrawn into the skin. The bar of the razor extends this just a tad more if the stubble is long enough, or cutting you if you apply too much pressure. Then when the skin normalizes, the hair is withdrawn back to its regular place.

 

[steveclarkus]

I like how you've broken down your response. Thanks. Although, I am a little confused with "....but it also raises it (the hair) a bit...."
Unfortunately, I don't get what you mean by this.

It is my understanding that the bar does raise the hair. Essentially the same idea as stretchythe skin when using a straight razor.

 

[steveclarkus]

Imagine a pool noodle half buried in some mud patch, being approached by a giant razor. The part of the noodle that is deepest in the mud has a little bit of a flare to it.

As the bar of the giant razor pushes gently but firmly over the noodle and begins to lay the noodle out horizontally, the noodle will stretch out a bit but it will also begin to try and break free from the mud patch a bit, raising out a little of what was stuck in the mud. The blade of the giant razor passes by, cutting the noodle right where it extends up out of the mud. The suction of the mud pulls what’s left of the noodle back into it original place, perfectly level with the mud surface or, more likely, a bit under the level of the mud’s surface.

Another example. If you have long hairs on your arm or leg, firmly run your finger over and past them. Note that at a certain point the follicle begins to raise under the skin, toward the base of the hair. Moisturized skin is very elastic allowing for some movement of the hair. This is how you get various levels of BBS or BBS’ that can last longer than others. Moisturized skin pushes the hair out, exposing some of the shaft that was withdrawn into the skin. The bar of the razor extends this just a tad more if the stubble is long enough, or cutting you if you apply too much pressure. Then when the skin normalizes, the hair is withdrawn back to its regular place.

Excellent Gear, Excellent.

 

[steveclarkus]

Ok it is my turn - @slashmccoy is dead on that straight is dead flat cool. Your friends will be awed! But you will hold the secret - it isn’t all that difficult to learn and it is perfectly safe. There are things to learn certainly but it will come more quickly than you think. I shaved with safety razors for 54 years before I went straight about 3 months ago. I shaved perfectly and quickly and it was boring. I’ve always enjoyed shaving but a DE was just too quick and too simple. At 69 tears of age, there were too few physical challenges I was up for. Straight razors always fascinated me so I decided to make the leap and did so with total commitment. I got a shave ready razor and cheap strop and haven’t used a DE since. The key to reasonably quick competency is commitment. If you use your straight every day (in the beginning you will need your DE for the more difficult parts and cleanup until you overcome the initial intimidation) you will be able to get decent shaves in two or three weeks. After that, lock up your DE and make your straight your daily shaver. If you use your straight occasionally, it will take a long time to learn. After you learn to shave reasonably well, learn to hone and maintain your razor(s). Read “Newbies Honing Compendium” in the Hones and Honing subforum and it won’t cost a bunch and easy learning curve. As to your original question, a straight razor will shave just as closely as a DE but it will be more comfortable and a lot more pleasurable - easier on your face. Theoretically, you could shave the rest of your life with one razor, strop and honing equipment and not buy another thing other than soap. That is theory though and not realistic because you will end up with a drawer full of straight razors and other stuff you will inevitably want but not really “need”. I hope you go for it because you will never regret it.

 

[ScottChapin]

Sometimes I wonder if there’s a correlation between straight razor shavers and musicians. I think we just enjoy things that require manual dexterity.


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[AimlessWanderer]

Sometimes I wonder if there’s a correlation between straight razor shavers and musicians. I think we just enjoy things that require manual dexterity.


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You'll have to count me out of that analogy, Scott. There's nothing musical about me, though I do enjoy the occasional (currently weekly) shave with a straight.

 

[ScottChapin]

You'll have to count me out of that analogy, Scott. There's nothing musical about me, though I do enjoy the occasional (currently weekly) shave with a straight.

Well, I don’t know about perfect correlation, but do you enjoy another interest that requires high dexterity, such as scale model building?


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