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Crooked/Asymmetric Dovo Barabossa

This entire thread feels like it's documenting a rapidly progressing brain disease.....

I specifically picked up the Kitayama as most report it behaving as an 8k when clean and a 10-14k with a heavy slurry, I've seen some excellent mirror polishes achieved with it.

CrOx/AlOx on balsa is one of the first on my list of experiments to try. One day I will try a 0.1 micron paste or spray, but there is SEM imaging demonstrating that anything smaller than 0.5 micron may actually cause more harm than good. Of course there are so many factors, hence why I want to try myself, but I've seen enough to make me sceptical.

I have to at least try and keep myself a little restrained, 90% of the time I only use a Norton India and CrOx loaded leather strop for knife sharpening, and that is enough to whittle hair. I understand a true razor edge needs a completely different profile to a knife edge, but at the end of the day, Granddad did it with a dirty rock and motor oil.
 
This entire thread feels like it's documenting a rapidly progressing brain disease.....

I specifically picked up the Kitayama as most report it behaving as an 8k when clean and a 10-14k with a heavy slurry, I've seen some excellent mirror polishes achieved with it.

...Granddad did it with a dirty rock and motor oil.
I mean... you're not wrong. but we do tend to enjoy it.

I not familiar with the stone but if it does what you say, you may just be set.

they did it that way, but that doesn't mean it was comfortable or as good as we can have it.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
....
CrOx/AlOx on balsa is one of the first on my list of experiments to try. One day I will try a 0.1 micron paste or spray, but there is SEM imaging demonstrating that anything smaller than 0.5 micron may actually cause more harm than good. Of course there are so many factors, hence why I want to try myself, but I've seen enough to make me sceptical.
....
I don't go on what I have "seen". I go on what the shave results are. I have shaved off 1.0μ (good), 0.5μm (okay), 0.25μm (bad) and 0.1μm (best). I can't explain why, that is just the results I get.
 
Exactly why I'm keen to test myself.

The substrate porosity, flexibility, natural abrasiveness. The abrasive uniformity, density, shape, type, matrix consistency. The steel alloy, heat treatment, bevel angle, carbide types, size and mix. Your individual technique, consistency, pressure. Not to mention the fact that everyone is going to have a different a different skin and hair type on which they'll judge the result. I'm sure there are thousands of other factors at play.

I'm starting with Todd's method to learn, because it seems to be successful and as far as a starting point goes it is the most credible, evidence backed technique that I can use where I'll be sure that any issues are 100% caused by me.

After that, I believe it is pointless listening to any advice and the bleeding edge of personal sharpness can only be obtained via experimentation.

I do find it absolutely fasinating that the .25 micron was bad where the 1.0 and 0.1 were both good. Fascinating, but completely unsurprising, it is such a weird and wonderful pursuit where intuition has to give way to evidence so often.

Do you have any theories as to why the difference with the 0.25?
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Exactly why I'm keen to test myself.

The substrate porosity, flexibility, natural abrasiveness. The abrasive uniformity, density, shape, type, matrix consistency. The steel alloy, heat treatment, bevel angle, carbide types, size and mix. Your individual technique, consistency, pressure. Not to mention the fact that everyone is going to have a different a different skin and hair type on which they'll judge the result. I'm sure there are thousands of other factors at play.

I'm starting with Todd's method to learn, because it seems to be successful and as far as a starting point goes it is the most credible, evidence backed technique that I can use where I'll be sure that any issues are 100% caused by me.

After that, I believe it is pointless listening to any advice and the bleeding edge of personal sharpness can only be obtained via experimentation.

I do find it absolutely fasinating that the .25 micron was bad where the 1.0 and 0.1 were both good. Fascinating, but completely unsurprising, it is such a weird and wonderful pursuit where intuition has to give way to evidence so often.

Do you have any theories as to why the difference with the 0.25?
Same here. Except I find the .5u to be a little uncomfortable, too. The .25µ is the most uncomfortable though the sharpness level is extremely good. For some reason it all comes home with the .1µ on balsa. This, for balsa prepared as in the pasted balsa strop thread.
 
For those who were interested in an update and closure to the story, read on:

As the retailer had no stock to supply an immediate replacement I did hum and haw over a few different options as a replacement instead of waiting for new stock ex Germany, but eventually decided to wait.

In the meantime I asked the retailer about the quality of Dovo in general and raised concerns about the same thing happening again. They explained that the new owners have been working hard to correct the quality issues and didn't seem to think it would be at all likely to happen again.

After receiving the replacement yesterday, I have to say they were absolutely right. The difference in quality is night and day, to the point where it is pointless taking any photos to show everyone because it will just look like a display model. The design has actually changed slightly as well, the branding along the scales has been removed leaving plain ebony (improvement imo) and the grind at the heel, rather than stopping dead leaving a large triangular stock to connect to the tang, now slowly transitions out and through the first part of the jimping. This gives it a much cleaner look and again is a big improvement imo. If it were a pocket knife I would bemoan the lost blade strength, but that is obviously not a concern with a SR.

If I had to pick any tiny defect, there is a very slight change in the bevel angle where the transition of the grind begins at the heel. When I say very slight, I mean fractions of a degree, it is almost impossible to discern without looking for it with the assistance of very good lighting. It will naturally be adjusted through high grit honing and is literally me going out of my way to find something to pick up on.

I have no further skin in the game with regards to Dovo and the retailer here, though would like to offer my opinion. I hope this does not break any anti-shilling rules as that is certainly not my intention.

Firstly, I'd like to comment on the general Dovo consensus here that the poor quality is part of the expectation of buying Dovo or that there are better options available for cheaper. It seems that the new owners are working at changing this perception and the evidence from my sample size of one is an indication that they are having success. Even with the obviously ridiculous sample size, the difference in quality is so drastic that it lends extra weight to the conclusion (imo). And for the cynics out there who suspect the item I received was specially selected by the retailer, the factory seal was still intact on the tin. If any of you were considering a Dovo purchase and were turned off by the quality concerns, I would say some apprehension is still appropriate, but would certainly knock it down a notch in weighting when making your final decision. It's also worth pointing out that all it took was one email and they were happy to accept that the SR be returned for a replacement, it does not get much more painless than that when dealing with an issue.

Regarding the retailer, to this point I have not named them, because I didn't want to promote or discredit them prior to everything being resolved. Their communication, attitude and general service has been absolutely first rate and though I have mostly been dealing with one person, I have had interactions with other staff and the quality seems to be company wide. For reasons out of their control, the courier service has failed to collect or receive the original defective SR and in fact it is still in my possession. Rather than waiting until they received the original item back they still sent me the replacement as soon as they received it from Germany. This, in my opinion is a clear statement that they put the customer first, even when assuming a financial risk of hundreds of dollars.

In the era of Chinese imports, eBay, Alibaba, Amazon and the other faceless online retailers with dubious communication and service, sometimes the thing that gets lost or forgotten in the race to the bottom of pricing is where that saving is coming from. As I was told many times growing up, "there is nothing free in life" and I think we all know the cost savings here are made in service and people. To pay an extra 20% (or whatever) and support a smaller business trying to look after people as best they can - especially when looking after people is, financially speaking, to their detriment (at least immediately) it is absolutely worth it to me and I suspect many of you.

So with all that in mind, for those in Aus, I cannot recommend Men's Biz highly enough. Please consider supporting them even if it does mean paying an extra few bucks for the sharpening stone, cream or razor that you want. I don't think any one of us want to live in a world were Amazon is the only option....

For those who made it here, thanks I guess? It was fun, and hopefully someone can glean something useful from my experience, I also hope there is a long break before I find something else to whinge about. I'd like to thank everyone who offered insight and advice at the start of this thread as well, as I have said before you all certainly represent the community in a most excellent manner and I just wish I had more to personally contribute to the forums. :)

Cheers.
 
Great to hear about things working out for you and the razor, and the fact that Dovo's new management seems to care about the quality of their products and their customer's experience!
 
For those who were interested in an update and closure to the story, read on:

As the retailer had no stock to supply an immediate replacement I did hum and haw over a few different options as a replacement instead of waiting for new stock ex Germany, but eventually decided to wait.

In the meantime I asked the retailer about the quality of Dovo in general and raised concerns about the same thing happening again. They explained that the new owners have been working hard to correct the quality issues and didn't seem to think it would be at all likely to happen again.

After receiving the replacement yesterday, I have to say they were absolutely right. The difference in quality is night and day, to the point where it is pointless taking any photos to show everyone because it will just look like a display model. The design has actually changed slightly as well, the branding along the scales has been removed leaving plain ebony (improvement imo) and the grind at the heel, rather than stopping dead leaving a large triangular stock to connect to the tang, now slowly transitions out and through the first part of the jimping. This gives it a much cleaner look and again is a big improvement imo. If it were a pocket knife I would bemoan the lost blade strength, but that is obviously not a concern with a SR.

If I had to pick any tiny defect, there is a very slight change in the bevel angle where the transition of the grind begins at the heel. When I say very slight, I mean fractions of a degree, it is almost impossible to discern without looking for it with the assistance of very good lighting. It will naturally be adjusted through high grit honing and is literally me going out of my way to find something to pick up on.

I have no further skin in the game with regards to Dovo and the retailer here, though would like to offer my opinion. I hope this does not break any anti-shilling rules as that is certainly not my intention.

Firstly, I'd like to comment on the general Dovo consensus here that the poor quality is part of the expectation of buying Dovo or that there are better options available for cheaper. It seems that the new owners are working at changing this perception and the evidence from my sample size of one is an indication that they are having success. Even with the obviously ridiculous sample size, the difference in quality is so drastic that it lends extra weight to the conclusion (imo). And for the cynics out there who suspect the item I received was specially selected by the retailer, the factory seal was still intact on the tin. If any of you were considering a Dovo purchase and were turned off by the quality concerns, I would say some apprehension is still appropriate, but would certainly knock it down a notch in weighting when making your final decision. It's also worth pointing out that all it took was one email and they were happy to accept that the SR be returned for a replacement, it does not get much more painless than that when dealing with an issue.

Regarding the retailer, to this point I have not named them, because I didn't want to promote or discredit them prior to everything being resolved. Their communication, attitude and general service has been absolutely first rate and though I have mostly been dealing with one person, I have had interactions with other staff and the quality seems to be company wide. For reasons out of their control, the courier service has failed to collect or receive the original defective SR and in fact it is still in my possession. Rather than waiting until they received the original item back they still sent me the replacement as soon as they received it from Germany. This, in my opinion is a clear statement that they put the customer first, even when assuming a financial risk of hundreds of dollars.

In the era of Chinese imports, eBay, Alibaba, Amazon and the other faceless online retailers with dubious communication and service, sometimes the thing that gets lost or forgotten in the race to the bottom of pricing is where that saving is coming from. As I was told many times growing up, "there is nothing free in life" and I think we all know the cost savings here are made in service and people. To pay an extra 20% (or whatever) and support a smaller business trying to look after people as best they can - especially when looking after people is, financially speaking, to their detriment (at least immediately) it is absolutely worth it to me and I suspect many of you.

So with all that in mind, for those in Aus, I cannot recommend Men's Biz highly enough. Please consider supporting them even if it does mean paying an extra few bucks for the sharpening stone, cream or razor that you want. I don't think any one of us want to live in a world were Amazon is the only option....

For those who made it here, thanks I guess? It was fun, and hopefully someone can glean something useful from my experience, I also hope there is a long break before I find something else to whinge about. I'd like to thank everyone who offered insight and advice at the start of this thread as well, as I have said before you all certainly represent the community in a most excellent manner and I just wish I had more to personally contribute to the forums. :)

Cheers.
I too have had dealings with Mens Biz in the past, and found their customer service very good.
 
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