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Crooked/Asymmetric Dovo Barabossa

Interesting, I will definitely check it out. That does explain the bottom notches where the tang meets the blade, but the flats seem very poorly formed, I imagine something wasn't 100% right, the dies were offset perhaps? Or there was a graphite chip etc.?

Looking from the tang at the heel those “flat grinds” are the initial hollowing which is done with a larger diameter wheel. They then go down to a smaller set of wheels to thin the section behind the edge to the spine. You often see those kind of tabs left because to create the stabilizer they don’t grind all the way back to the heel.

The asymmetry was probably something as simple as the person grinding the razor had the whole blade tilted at an angle while working.
 
Welcome to the disappointed with DOVO club. With that writeup you do know quite a bit. I can't add much to herrenberg's wisdom, but if you keep it and put the work you're already aware of into it you'll learn more about razor honing than you would with 40-50 years of touching up a perfectly ground one.

I didn't have the patience to send back my two bananas. My sense of trust died a bit more, but I don't regret the time spent.
Working with machining tooling and knives, it's all just geometry and steel hardness in the end - having said that, I would always approach a new field assuming I don't know what I'm talking about and with respect for those that do. Much more likely to be taught by people who know better if they think you're actually going to listen.

I am very surprised by the lack of a fuss over the Dovo quality within this community though, it just seems to be accepted and everyone carries on without objection. Compare it to the knife community and I've seen grown men having full-blown tantrums over some of Benchmade's QC failures and they are much, much less significant than this. (In my opinion.)
 
Looking from the tang at the heel those “flat grinds” are the initial hollowing which is done with a larger diameter wheel. They then go down to a smaller set of wheels to thin the section behind the edge to the spine. You often see those kind of tabs left because to create the stabilizer they don’t grind all the way back to the heel.

The asymmetry was probably something as simple as the person grinding the razor had the whole blade tilted at an angle while working.
I was more referring to the small indents in the crook of the tang and blade heel, but yes, this is basically how I imagined they would go about it, I just had the heat treat in the wrong step.

Honestly, given it's handmade, and I'm now comfortable it won't affect performance, I kind of appreciate the fact that it's imperfect. It's the sort of thing that makes what is, in reality a mass produced item, personal and irreplaceable.

Compare that to my Victorinox kitchen knives for example, which are by far the most practical knife for genuine use (in my opinion anyway.) I love them for that reason, but at the end of the day they are soulless pieces of stamped steel with pseudo-rubber handles. If they all broke tomorrow, I'd replace them in a heartbeat without any feeling but annoyance at the cost.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
@blinkybill, welcome to the gentlemanly art of straight razor shaving. If your Dovo wasn't your first SR and a gift, I would want it replaced. Don't worry, you will be buying more. Use this SR as a learner.

As you may have already read elsewhere, it is not recommended that you learn honing at the same time as you are learning to SR shave. If the Dovo is not truly shave-ready, send it out to be professionally honed. You can then just maintain the blade on diamond pasted balsa strops.
 
G'day All,


Have been trying to find an opinion on a new straight razor I received as a gift today, but am not having much luck....

I received a Dovo Barbarossa 10580086 and am excited and happy about it, I've never owned or used a straight razor before.

Having said that, I've noticed a few manufacturing issues, and I'm not really sure if this is just par for the course, or out of line. I wouldn't expect to see the same types of quality issues on a similarly priced folding knife, but I am really unsure if I'm making a big fuss. I've sent an email to Dovo to ask their opinion but don't want to rely solely on their assessment.

View attachment 1423345
You can see the hollow grind on the left is much higher and deeper than on the right. As I understand it, this is going to give each side a different final bevel angle. This is made worse by the fact that the actual cutting edge is not centred within the steel stock.

View attachment 1423346
From the rear of the blade, you can see the same asymmetry but it is also clear that what remains of the flat grinds are not the same angle.

View attachment 1423349
This is much harder to see in the photo (but apparent in person,) the actual cutting edge is running on an angle. When compared to the line of the tang/handle or the scales, in both cases the cutting edge is not parallel.

View attachment 1423352
Again, hard to see in the photo - but relative to the tang/steel stock the actual cutting edge leans over to one side - i.e. is out of plumb.

I understand that there is always going to be a bit of inconsistency with a grind, and that the quenching process is going to effectively make it impossible to get a perfectly straight edge in every plane. I am also acutely aware that I have no idea what I am talking about and no experience with this industry or manufacturing process, but my suspicion is:
The blade stock is initially rough cut to form the handle and blade shape (no problems here.)
The stock is then flat ground to remove the bulk of the material (I think my blade was done in the middle of Oktoberfest, by a very hungover German.)
A large lot of these flat ground blades are then heat treated, quenched and tempered. (I suspect this was done without checking the flat-grind.)
After finishing the heat treat, the hollow grind is cut in using a water wheel or similar.

At this point in the process it looks like someone at Dovo has realised they have a batch of knives that were incompetently ground and instead of cutting their losses and getting the scrap price, they've tried to recover the work so as not to lose the sunk cost of steel and labour. This has resulted in a very aggressive and weird hollow-grind with crap geometry.

Of course I freely admit, I have no idea what I'm talking about, this is just a hypothetical.

Can anyone tell me if I'm off base here? Should this be going straight back to the retailer, or am I being a bit too pedantic? I'm sure I'll still be able to get a fine working edge out of it, and practically it will be a perfectly useful tool. But I can't help but feel QA has dropped the ball a bit here and I haven't received exactly what was paid for.

Cheers guys.
Looks like a cheap Chinese copy bought off FakeBay.
 
@blinkybill, welcome to the gentlemanly art of straight razor shaving. If your Dovo wasn't your first SR and a gift, I would want it replaced. Don't worry, you will be buying more. Use this SR as a learner.

As you may have already read elsewhere, it is not recommended that you learn honing at the same time as you are learning to SR shave. If the Dovo is not truly shave-ready, send it out to be professionally honed. You can then just maintain the blade on diamond pasted balsa strops.
Haha.... That almost sounds like a threat :)

I've got a fair bit of experience freehand sharpening blades on belt grinders and oil/water stones, so I'm prepared to jump in knowing that I may need to soften my touch a fair bit. It's been my experience that there is practically nothing that can be done to a blade while sharpening that can't be undone with enough time and patience - though I'm happy to be corrected if there is something I don't know.

I've always made use of kangaroo leather strops that I make myself as they're cheap and plentiful in my area, I've also used tightly wound newspaper in the past for a particularly fine edge, but this is the first I've heard of Balsa. Is the idea that the rigidity/softness is the right balance to refine the edge while keeping it crisp/not rolling? I am pretty sure I will be able to pinch some from the wife's craft supplies and give this a go - I am certainly intrigued.
 
Yep, that's genuine Dovo quality.
Lol.....

I genuinely don't understand, how is it such common knowledge that their QC is so poor and yet they still have such a seemingly good reputation and are consistently recommended?

I'm at peace with this as I said before, but the communities attitude about it all in general surprises me.
 
The straight razor community here is used to getting the most out of the detritus of the long history of straight razor shaving. That means being able to deal with issues, so often that a few bits of wonk in a new blade just comes with the territory, and we mostly know how to fix it, and do, routinely.

Perfection is not something we generally find. OK, if you spend large money on, say, a Max Sprecher, then perfection comes with it. I sold mine, because it was too beautiful for the likes of me to own. If you buy a new Iwasaki kamisori, it will probably be perfect. All of mine were. But also expensive.

But if you want to spend normal money, the kind of money that someone who is not razor-obsessed would spend, then we're out of perfection territory, and the usual recommendation is to get one that has been honed by someone who really knows what they are doing. Some reputable dealers offer this service with the razors they sell.

I will have to admit that I have not seen a lot of people here touting Dovo. They are a large kid on the block, for sure. They make respectable razors. But you don't see much excitement about them, however visible they are in the seller community.

But even greats like Ralf Aust and Koraat do not consistently deliver perfection, though they sometimes do, and usually come close. It's not quite something we expect. Granted, the folding/fixed knife community is different. That Sebenza is supposed to be perfect. But the kitchen knife community has these debates too, as you can discover if you seek out their threads on TF aka Teruyasu Fujiwara.

You seem to have enough experience to learn honing and shaving in the same go. So proceed. Unless your razor is warped, in the sense of having a curvature from side-to-side along the spine, you can learn to fix it. And I have rarely found a more fun thing to learn than turning an imperfect razor into something that can shave my face perfectly.
 
Lol.....

I genuinely don't understand, how is it such common knowledge that their QC is so poor and yet they still have such a seemingly good reputation and are consistently recommended?

I'm at peace with this as I said before, but the communities attitude about it all in general surprises me.
Well, there are a few factors at play here. Probably first and foremost, this forum is predicated on the concept of gentlemanly discussion, so while we certainly don't avoid calling out issues we don't spend a lot of time beating dead horses either.

I've never owned a Dovo. They don't appeal to me aesthetically, at least not the current offerings. I've seen plenty of evidence that their entry level models seem to suffer from poor QC but I have no idea how extensive that is. And frankly, it's not just Dovo.

So, it's a known quantity. Whether it's acceptable or not is a personal decision and not necessarily an interesting discussion. Can it be made to shave? Probably. And that's a much more interesting discussion. There have been a lot of wonky razors made over the last 200 years and a lot of them have been put to good use.

As far as recommendations, I don't see Dovo recommended much around here, or if they are, with the caveat to look at the more expensive models. But a lot of guys like them. You pays your money, you takes your chances.
 
I have little doubt that an experienced person would have little trouble honing the razor, but it sure looks like it should never have left the factory. I'd see what the response from the seller is. If they're playing hardball and won't exchange it I'd give their customer service department some free advertising in this thread and not worry to much more about it. You will learn a lot dealing with that geometry.

As bad as it looks I would really expect them to exchange it with no hassles. It's hard for me to imagine them having the gall to tell you that that is an acceptable product.

Good luck and do let us know how you are treated.
 
What a refreshing approach contrasted against the never-ending vitriol that seems to be the fuel of most every other online community.

Certainly I've enjoyed my introduction and appreciate the measured and calm replies when dealing with an issue that would typically pull a few of the lunatics from the woodwork in every other online community.

Though, I do wonder whether there is something lost in turning the other cheek to Dovo or other manufacturers here. I imagine they are keen to cut costs and will do whatever they think they can get away with - do you think a subdued reaction leads to a subdued response from the manufacturer with these issues? And more importantly, do you think there are others who have similar first SR experiences to me who are put off and move onto other things leaving the community with a lost potential member? Perhaps, on some occasions, there is some value in beating the proverbial horse?

Consider this all uneducated rhetorical musing, I certainly am not convinced myself that it would be worth the cost of jeopardising what is at first glance an ideal prevailing community attitude.

I had already reached out to Dovo prior to making this thread, so I'll update everyone in due course if and when I hear back. I am still unsure as to whether or not I am going to try and exchange the SR - I'm leaning towards keeping it, but I may feel differently after sleeping on it (or checking the edge is flat on some float glass.)
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
All current major brand manufacturers suffer from a lack of skilled grinding talent and apparently warped blanks. Dovo is no different from many other brands except that they seem to release more razors with problems than other brands and do not maybe honor their warranty.

’Oh, you honed your razor? Your warranty is void’. What? You HAVE to hone a razor after a month or so. This is like ‘Oh, you changed the oil in your new car? You warranty is void.’

I think that Slash has the solution, pasted balsa ‘strops‘ are not honing…. Brilliant!
 
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Here you go then as long as no one else sees it
The first side doesn't look too bad or wouldn't if the razor was an oldie.
The front side I found it difficult to get any kind of a bevel on it so I saw red as they say.
You can see a trifle of spine wear towards the heel!!!!
View attachment 1423421

View attachment 1423422
Had to do the same with my T.I., and funny enough the hone wear is very similar after getting it right. Hands down my favorite shaver though. Might get some snide remarks on certain forums but whatever. As long as it shaves.

Regarding those Dovo photos, it really stinks that something like that was deemed okay and sent out. It's rare that razors are perfectly ground though. All 3 of my razors were sub-par when I got them, even my Ralf Aust (which I bought because I kept reading about how they never have issues). My Gold Dollar, however, looks a LOT better than your Dovo, and that should not be the case. Is it workable? Probably. Might be a headache for you on the stones down the line.
 
OK. I have three Dovo razors. I can maintain their edges and the shave me fine.
5/8 Best Quality
Barbarossa in stainless
6/8 Carre

I'm sure that Dovo produces some duds at the lower ends of their line.

I just toured a sampling of my numerous new production SRs. There are quite a few that that do not look particularly symmetrical viewed nose on. None of them are giving me problems.

However, I have plenty of vintage razors that are tricky to hone. You should definitely make sure that your Barbarossa will lie flat, without a wobble. If that is the case, and the factory bevel looks reasonably even, the Barbarossa will most likely function without issues.

If it wobbles or the factory bevel is wonky, send it back.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
@blinkybill look at this poll between Böker and Dovo SR's. Both are similarly price.
 
@blinkybill look at this poll between Böker and Dovo SR's. Both are similarly price.
It speaks volumes doesn't it....

Some of the modern Boker knives are "made in Germany" in so far as the final assembly happens there, but they use some pretty run of the mill imported blades. That being said they still make some great knives in Germany from start to finish, it's just their offerings have four or five tiers of product to obfuscate what comes from where. I wouldn't have been certain about whether their SRs were included in the top end German group, based on that poll I assume they are, and even if they aren't it hardly seems it matters.
 
It is difficult for me to see what is going on from the photos. The first photo suggests that something is not right, but I have a Japanese razor whose profile is not quite even but whose spines are perfectly even. I would need to see the razor in person to be sure. Also, I have restored multiple vintage razors whose profiles I have had to sand with 100 or 240 grit wet/dry sandpaper to make their profile look even for which there were no geometric issues with their spines and edges.

I have three new Dovos, all of which have very good geometry - two of which I bought factory sealed from a large knife seller and only had to strop on leather to shave well. I have only ever put these two on finishing stones and they shave great!

BTW, I am not suggesting that you put 100 grit sandpaper on your razor. If you did, you would then have to use 240, 400, 800, 1200 and 2000 grit sandpaper to remove all of the consecutive scratch marks and probably need to reset the bevel on the razor.
 
My 2 cents
  1. DON'T hone it until Dovo get back to you or the shop replace it. I'll be interested in how you get on here.
  2. Perform a wobble test by placing it on a kitchen countertop and tapping all around to see if it's flat.
  3. If it wobbles, and you have some isopropyl alcohol, make a newspaper strop (damp with the alcohol) on a flat surface, get a shapie marker and run it along both sides of the edge and lightly strop the blade to see if it's at least making contact all along the edge. If it looks like morse code send it back. Dovo hone on convex wheels which won't show this to be a problem.
  4. If, as you say, this is to be your first and only straight razor (it won't) then absolutely send it back.
  5. As a newbie I wouldn't want to learn on a wonky blade. Reserve that for vintage stuff that may require correction.
  6. If I owned Dovo I'd absolutely want to know if one of my staff was consistently churning out defective products. Maybe the die stamping the blanks is worn/damaged and needs replacing and they're putting it off in the current environment? Who knows.
  7. Sending stuff like this back to the factory is the only way to let them know it's not acceptable. If everyone did it, it would get fixed. I wounder how many got a wonky Dovo as their first razor and gave up never to return?
  8. I think with a gold dollar you take your chances but for a blade costing $/€/£ 100+ I think we should expect a blade to have absolutely no wobble especially one made in Germany who pride themselves on precision.
If the shop won't take it back or Dovo say it's fine use points 2 & 3 as ammunition.

I believe Dovo went bankrupt last year and are "Under new management/owners". Anyone know more about this?

I have a couple of Dovo's.
My "best Quality" came absolutely flat and I shaved with it straight out of the box. It definitely needed further honing though.
My "Bismarck" is flat on the showside but wobbles on the back side. Again I shaved with it out of the box and while better than the best quality it still needed work. I'm with @Slash McCoy who says people who make SR's should shave with SR's.
I could go to town on it and correct it but I choose to work around it because of the gold spine work where I don't want a big flatspot on one side. I kept it and it's fine as I know how to hone it but as I said above for a newbie you really don't want to have to deal with it.

I can't see from the photos but is the actual edge wider on one side that the other?
 
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