couple questions about olive oil soaps

[jonwilson]

what is the difference between pure olive soaps and the extra virgin olive oil ones? I notice aleppo soap which is considered by some to be one of the best olive oil soaps is made with pomace oil, a low quality olive oil. has anyone tried the aleppo olive oil soap or the papoutsanis greek ones or the french cube marseille ones that contain 72% olive oil? if you have, what are your thoughts on this and who do you think makes a better olive oil soap, syria, greece, or france based on your own personal opinion? also, has anyone tried kirk's castile soap? i am trying to find out what kind of coconut oil they use in their soaps. I am think they use refined coconut oil. how is this considered natural or good for the face if you use a refined coconut oil in your soap?

 

[mmack66]

Welcome to Badger and Blade!

Haven't used any of the soaps you listed, but I do use and like Kiss My Face Olive Oil Soap, though I don't know what grade of olive oil they use.

 

[Malaspina]

Extra Virgin Olive Oil soaps take much longer to cure off and are not better quality soap that those made with Pomice grade - it is more a matter of perception and perception will drive the price.

There are soap that are called Castille and they are 100% Olive Oil which will give you one of the gentlest and mildest soaps available but if you are going to buy one, buy it from an artisan soap maker because they are not going to mess around with removing the natural glycerin etc.

Refined Coconut Oil is the standard for soapmaking and all that means is that is has been deordorized. A natural soap is made up of natural products and since lye is not natural you can never get 100% natural soap. Raw Coconut oil is one of the most moisturizing oils however when it is turned into a soap it is one of the harshest and drying. When looking at soaps you want to look at where in the list the Coconut oil sits - if it is right at the top this is generally (there are exceptions here) going to be the most cleansing and drying. If Palm Oil, Olive Oil, Tallow, Shea, etc are listed higher in the list than Coconut or even Palm Kernal then you are going to get a milder soap.

If you want to learn more about the differences between commercial and hand-crafted soaps you can go the the Guild Website - http://www.soapguild.org/public/handcrafted-soap.php

HTH

 

[rtt]

Marseille was great for my skin in winter - no dryness at all. The papoutsanis works almost as well at a fraction of the cost though it smells rather "raw". No idea what the difference in manufacturing is, but these are pretty much the only soaps I can stand in the winter months

 

[jonwilson]

I agree with what Linda has said. If I were making a product that remained on the skin, a balm or a salve, for example, I'd use the best grade of olive oil available to me, but for a wash off product like soap, I don't think the cost of the cold-pressed, extra-virgin, organic oils is justified.

I understand that some use low quality olive oil like pomace to make soap because it is cost effective, but extra virgin olive oil is more healthier than pomace olive oil. from what I understand, olive oil soaps get absorbed into your skin.

 

[neilt]

I think your confusing food use vs face use.

First off, best is subjective. I use a ton o Kirk's. Costs me around a 1.23 a bar shipped. I buy it by 230 bar lots. I have used it for about 30 good years. Wife uses it, kids use it and all three of them have VERY sensitive skin. While the oil is 'refined' I don't think that refining produces the same negatives for our skin as our cardiovascular system when we ingest hydrogenated oils and other 'refined' or oils made rancid.

What is the molecular difference between Olive Oil and Extra Virgin? Exactly. Olive oil is the same unless your changing the compound. Now for taste and food, that is a different story. If you disagree with me please direct me to your proof that olive oil varies on a molecular level depending on where it is made into oil (not stuff that us humans put into it).

MWF burns the heck out of my face. It is as natural as it gets. Some of us have a freak reaction to lanolin and I am one of those.

Anthrax is naturally occurring. Botulinum is pretty evil stuff too, but refined, it is approved to shoot your face up with it.

In short, buy them all and try them. Buy more of the ones you like, less of the ones you don't like. I agree with what malaspala said...

 

[jonwilson]

I think your confusing food use vs face use.

First off, best is subjective. I use a ton o Kirk's. Costs me around a 1.23 a bar shipped. I buy it by 230 bar lots. I have used it for about 30 good years. Wife uses it, kids use it and all three of them have VERY sensitive skin. While the oil is 'refined' I don't think that refining produces the same negatives for our skin as our cardiovascular system when we ingest hydrogenated oils and other 'refined' or oils made rancid.

What is the molecular difference between Olive Oil and Extra Virgin? Exactly. Olive oil is the same unless your changing the compound. Now for taste and food, that is a different story. If you disagree with me please direct me to your proof that olive oil varies on a molecular level depending on where it is made into oil (not stuff that us humans put into it).

MWF burns the heck out of my face. It is as natural as it gets. Some of us have a freak reaction to lanolin and I am one of those.

Anthrax is naturally occurring. Botulinum is pretty evil stuff too, but refined, it is approved to shoot your face up with it.

In short, buy them all and try them. Buy more of the ones you like, less of the ones you don't like. I agree with what malaspala said...

extra virgin olive oil is the healthiest olive oil around, so one would think it would be a better soap for you to use on your face than say an inferior olive oil like pomace. I believe kirk uses refined coconut oil. there are tons of articles that says refined coconut is not as good or healthy as virgin unrefined coconut oil. Usually, when you refine a healthy oil, it takes most of the good stuff out of that oil.

 

[jonwilson]

I think your confusing food use vs face use.

First off, best is subjective. I use a ton o Kirk's. Costs me around a 1.23 a bar shipped. I buy it by 230 bar lots. I have used it for about 30 good years. Wife uses it, kids use it and all three of them have VERY sensitive skin. While the oil is 'refined' I don't think that refining produces the same negatives for our skin as our cardiovascular system when we ingest hydrogenated oils and other 'refined' or oils made rancid.

What is the molecular difference between Olive Oil and Extra Virgin? Exactly. Olive oil is the same unless your changing the compound. Now for taste and food, that is a different story. If you disagree with me please direct me to your proof that olive oil varies on a molecular level depending on where it is made into oil (not stuff that us humans put into it).

MWF burns the heck out of my face. It is as natural as it gets. Some of us have a freak reaction to lanolin and I am one of those.

Anthrax is naturally occurring. Botulinum is pretty evil stuff too, but refined, it is approved to shoot your face up with it.

In short, buy them all and try them. Buy more of the ones you like, less of the ones you don't like. I agree with what malaspala said...

refined coconut oil soaps tend to disappear very quickly. I use kirk's as well and the bars go pretty quick. Do your bars go quick?

 

[buyandhold2018]

Question... which soaps actually use Extra Virgin Olive Oil? From the Olive oil producers I've spoken to in Italy, Extra Virgin is never ever used in soap.

 

[jonwilson]

Question... which soaps actually use Extra Virgin Olive Oil? From the Olive oil producers I've spoken to in Italy, Extra Virgin is never ever used in soap.

if you look around on the internet, you will find some people make soaps using extra virgin olive oil.

 

[causalfault]

The only significant difference between Extra Virgin Olive Oil and Pomace is the method of oil extraction. Both are fit for human consumption (and therefore, presumably, cosmetic use), and, actually, Pomace is often preferred for things like frying because it has a higher smoke point.

There is virtually no difference between soaps made with EV grade and Pomace grade olive oils. Pomace isn't going to damage your skin, or clog your pores, or cause you to develop unsightly lesions and blemishes. As a matter of fact, many of the soapmaking resources I've encountered actually recommend using Pomace over EV grade because it has a more neutral scent (so you don't walk around all day smelling like a salad).

I've also noticed that coconut oil soaps tend to disappear pretty quickly, but then, I'm very liberal with my soap application, too. I've gone through two and a half bars in the time it takes my wife to go through one, so I may not be the best judge of a soap's longevity.

Also, noticed this:

A natural soap is made up of natural products and since lye is not natural you can never get 100% natural soap.

This isn't exactly true. You can make potash (potassium hydroxide, KOH) by collecting rainwater and filtering it through layers of straw and wood ash, and then use that in place of commercial Lye (usually sodium hydroxide ["caustic soda"], NaOH), and make a soap that is absolutely 100% natural. I know my great-great-great-grandparents couldn't just go to the hardware store and buy a can of Reobic when they wanted to make soap.

 

[kingfisher]

jonwilson, I agree with eyebright's comments.

You have to understand that the oil is going to be saponfied. Can't imagine how the two oils could produce a different soap. "Refining" is usually bad when it comes to foods that you ingest into your body, but refining coconut oil for a soap is different.

Welcome to the forum.


For the record, the only olive oil soap I've ever used is the Kiss My Face soap; I think it's pretty nice.

 

[neilt]

Yes, my bars go quick, it's the nature of the soap like you said. That is why I buy 5 cases at a time vs one or two bars at the store.

Jon and others - Extra virgin vs 1st press vs 3rd press vs italian vs greek vs pomace in being 'better for you' is insignificant. Olive oil is olive oil for cosmetics. You would have to alter the application method or chemically alter the compounds to make it any better or worse. Find me a legit clinical study that shows usage of these and one being 'better' than the other.

Now for ingestion, YMMV. I am a cook, and I prefer certain oils for certain things.

 

[jonwilson]

Yes, my bars go quick, it's the nature of the soap like you said. That is why I buy 5 cases at a time vs one or two bars at the store.

Jon and others - Extra virgin vs 1st press vs 3rd press vs italian vs greek vs pomace in being 'better for you' is insignificant. Olive oil is olive oil for cosmetics. You would have to alter the application method or chemically alter the compounds to make it any better or worse. Find me a legit clinical study that shows usage of these and one being 'better' than the other.

Now for ingestion, YMMV. I am a cook, and I prefer certain oils for certain things.

neilt, so you think that refined coconut oil is better than organic virgin coconut oil when it comes to soap? check out a soap called tropical traditions and let me know what you think.

 

[jonwilson]

Yes, my bars go quick, it's the nature of the soap like you said. That is why I buy 5 cases at a time vs one or two bars at the store.

Jon and others - Extra virgin vs 1st press vs 3rd press vs italian vs greek vs pomace in being 'better for you' is insignificant. Olive oil is olive oil for cosmetics. You would have to alter the application method or chemically alter the compounds to make it any better or worse. Find me a legit clinical study that shows usage of these and one being 'better' than the other.

Now for ingestion, YMMV. I am a cook, and I prefer certain oils for certain things.

neilt, you may have said already, but do you use kirk's on your face? do you find it leaves your face moisturizing?

 

[neilt]

I have not said it earlier. I don't generally need much moisture on my face other than occasionally in the winter, and I leave that to a balm, not a soap.

I have used kirk's on my face and my head. I have used it to shave with before. Pretty much during undergrad I used it as soap and shaving creme with a straight.

I generally have normal skin with some oily patching because I do head shave. If I feel the need to get rid of the oil I usually hit the clinique face scrub. If I feel a bit dry I back off the scrub and soap for a day or so and that fixes it up for me.

Now, my wife and kids have different skin and they all use Kirk's. For my kids kirk's was the only soap that does not rash them out (excema-however it's spelled), etc, etc. So, I stick with it and don't change up the soap element.

I don't think that any specific ingredient in soap is any better than any other ingredient. We all have different skin types, likes, dislikes. For example...MWF rashes me out...I still use it, it is a great product, but for about 20 minutes after shaving my face feels 'hot'. I have to rinse well with it.

I also don't think that any ingredient is any 'healthier' in a soap with respect to 'grade' or it being organic....oh well, ymmv

 

[jonwilson]

I have not said it earlier. I don't generally need much moisture on my face other than occasionally in the winter, and I leave that to a balm, not a soap.

I have used kirk's on my face and my head. I have used it to shave with before. Pretty much during undergrad I used it as soap and shaving creme with a straight.

I generally have normal skin with some oily patching because I do head shave. If I feel the need to get rid of the oil I usually hit the clinique face scrub. If I feel a bit dry I back off the scrub and soap for a day or so and that fixes it up for me.

Now, my wife and kids have different skin and they all use Kirk's. For my kids kirk's was the only soap that does not rash them out (excema-however it's spelled), etc, etc. So, I stick with it and don't change up the soap element.

I don't think that any specific ingredient in soap is any better than any other ingredient. We all have different skin types, likes, dislikes. For example...MWF rashes me out...I still use it, it is a great product, but for about 20 minutes after shaving my face feels 'hot'. I have to rinse well with it.

I also don't think that any ingredient is any 'healthier' in a soap with respect to 'grade' or it being organic....oh well, ymmv

yeah, you're right. I did some digging and it appears that most soapmakers use refined coconut oil in their soaps. I think that organic virgin coconut oil soaps are a gimmick and those who sell them make them out to be much better than those who make soaps with refined coconut oil. I use kirk's and a greek olive oil soap and the 2 main things I like about is kirk's is that you can find their soap at most places and that it has an INCREDIBLE LATHER which you can never get with olive oil soap.

 

[Malaspina]

This isn't exactly true. You can make potash (potassium hydroxide, KOH) by collecting rainwater and filtering it through layers of straw and wood ash, and then use that in place of commercial Lye (usually sodium hydroxide ["caustic soda"], NaOH), and make a soap that is absolutely 100% natural. I know my great-great-great-grandparents couldn't just go to the hardware store and buy a can of Reobic when they wanted to make soap.

That is very true and to make sure the lye was strong enough they would float an egg on it. Then as the harder soap came to the top of pot they would scoop it out, add salt and put it into its mold with absorbent fabric underneath. Once dry they would cut it and that would be their soap for the year. The really poor townsfolks would save up their used cooking grease, then render it and strain it to make soap. My grandmother and Great-Grandmother were homesteaders in southern Saskatchewan and they even taught me how to churn butter. Kids are good for that - they have way more energy.

As for Extra Virgin Olive Oil - in soap it tends to go rancid much faster than the final press of the olives (Pomice) which is one of the reasons soapmakers (experienced soapmakers) prefer to use pomice or even light olive oil. The original Castille (100% Olive Oil) was made from the oils that had gone rancid or were oils not preferred for food. I had a friend buy me a bar when they were in Greece and it was really yellow and rather smelly. Of course they could very well have been playing with me.

 

[George78]

Hi, although I've been reading BaB from some time this is my first post; please excuse my occasionally grammar error - english is not my main language, i'm from Romania.
I've actually spoked with a manufacturer of Aleppo soaps and he told me that second ( cold ) pressed extracted olive oil is better for soap making than extra virgin olive oil ( first pressed) because it's richer in unsaponificable fat acids that remains in the final product, making it milder and more moisturiser - which is of course Aleppo's soap main quality