Couple of questions on stones

[drjay9051]

Have not used straight razor in years.
I currently have a Norton 4k/8k ,lapping stone, dia sharp coarse ( I believe about 220 grit and an unidentified very fine stone,certainly finer than the 8 k.

Is the diasharp "too coarse" to set bevel? Better to get a 1k for bevel set?

Some say to soak the 8k Norton yet others say not necessary just a spray bottle. Thoughts on this?

Lastly, I see settting bevel some use back and forth stroke whereas others flip the razor and go only one direction. Is either "better" ?

I imagine when going to 4k/8k only one direction or in an effort to cut down on time can I go back and forth and just one direction for last few strokes ?
As I mentioned it's been years and now everybody on Youtube seems to be an expert.
I appreciate the help.

 

[captaincaed]

I’m about 8 months into learning, so grain of salt. I’m no expert, but I have recently overcome some frustrations/issues you’re about to tackle. FWIW, I’ve sharpened kitchen knives for a while and have experience with how metal and abrasives behave in general.

220 seems very coarse. I think you’ll spend ages removing those scratches, especially without anything between 220 and 4k. A 1k would allow you to set a bevel, or clean 220 scratches if you wanted to bevel set with 220. Either way, you probably want one.

If you work a knife in “scrubbing” strokes, the edge trailing stroke will draw the apex into a burr/wire. Due to steels ductility. You need to remove that burr (either through wash rinse repeat coarse stropping and edge leading strokes or by jointing the edge and then going to edge leading). That’s just really how metal behaves when it meets abrasive.

You can speed up the initial work, but you create more downstream work. If you do edge leading only, you’ll end much cleaner, but take longer. Kind of a dealers choice. In practice, I like a tighter stone progression, edge leading all the time. Let coarse stones do their thing, and then let intermediate grits do their thing, quickly and efficiently. Like sanding wood. For most stones, doubling grit between stones (within a single stone brand) makes for a pretty efficient progression. Mixing brands can lead to guess work.

(I think I read Shapton glass can handle 3x jumps, but someone else should jump in on that). Of course, you’ll buy another stone or two, but cut down work and frustration. Worth it to think about how much time you have, patience, budget, desires.

Do you have a pic of your finisher? Someone here may be able to lend a hand with ID

 

[drjay9051]

Here is a pic.
Measures 8x3.

Nomarkings but by feel certainly finer than my 8k

 

[Christian1212]

Depends on your razor condition. If it needs new bevel go to the 1k, if it is already pretty sharp go Norton 4k 8k. Make sure they are flat though before use. I believe the Norton stones should soak before use.

I recommend doing just plain x strokes, other strokes can be used for speeding up bevel set.

Natural looks like it could be slate or arkansas stone.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Generally a Norton 4k will easily set a bevel, but the razor and condition will dictate how aggressive you will need to be. You may be able to reset the bevel with the 8k, you might try that first.

That one stone feels finer than another to the touch means nothing. Past 8k I doubt anyone can predict grit finish by touch. So you will need to experiment with the “finish” stone to see if it will remove 8k stria and improve the edge.

Yes, the 220 is for tool/knife edge correction, not for razors. Yea, a short soak and squirt bottle on the Norton, hone on a plastic tray to catch the swarf and runoff, use an X stroke.

A photo of your razor will help in advising you.

 

[Kyle89]

Some say to soak the 8k Norton yet others say not necessary just a spray bottle. Thoughts on this?

Soak if you're going to use the 4k side. The 8k side doesn't need a soak. I've treated my Norton in this fashion for a while without issue.

 

[lightfoot]

The back and forth strokes are commonly referred to as either half-strokes or chisel strokes. The single direction strokes are usually called X-strokes. Some also use circles as well.

The Shapton Kuromaku 1500 grit and the Naniwa Gouken Arata 1000 grit stone are really good options for bevel setting work. I have the Shapton Kuromaku 2000 and while it works it has a soft and grainy texture I’m not exactly in love with…

 

[Elliot]

I’d probably recommend the 4K. It will just take more passes than the more common 1k. Stones in the 220 range are typically for repair and thinning of knives. Don’t think they have much of a place with razors unless you have a massive frown or something and need to remove a lot of metal.

Can you set a bevel on 220? Absolutely. Saying you can’t would be factually incorrect. But, it’s gonna be less forgiving if you’re not super comfortable with coarse stones and it’ll likely remove more metal than you need.

 

[drjay9051]

I do appreciate all the responses I have ordered a Norton 1K
In checking the few razors I have clearly my dovo which is the newest has need of a serious bevel set
I use the wet thumbnail test and the dovo really needs work my older Raisers such as my double duck seem to have a decent bevel
Last question if I may does setting a bevel apply to pocket knives at all as well I checked a pocket knife I have and it does not pass the thumbnail test .
Am I correct to assume that all cutting implements can be checked for bevel by using the thumbnail test thank you

 

[Legion]

I do appreciate all the responses I have ordered a Norton 1K
In checking the few razors I have clearly my dovo which is the newest has need of a serious bevel set
I use the wet thumbnail test and the dovo really needs work my older Raisers such as my double duck seem to have a decent bevel
Last question if I may does setting a bevel apply to pocket knives at all as well I checked a pocket knife I have and it does not pass the thumbnail test .
Am I correct to assume that all cutting implements can be checked for bevel by using the thumbnail test thank you

yeah, more or less. A pocket knife should definitely catch on your thumb nail. I generally hone mine until they can easily shave the hair on my arm. A 1k stone should be able to get that done.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

A fully set bevel is a bevel that is ground flat from the back of the bevel to the edge, in the correct bevel angle from, heel to toe, and the bevels meet in a straight edge, fully.

The practice of setting a bevel on a knife and razor are completely different. Knife and tool honing, one normally grinds one bevel until a burr is raised. With a razor, it is better to bring the bevels to meeting without making a burr or at least a large burr, because once you break off the burr, you are left with a ragged edge. The goal is a smooth, keen edge. Knife honing makes no allowance for smooth. The edge after all will be riding on your face.

What is required to set or re-set a bevel depends on the condition of the edge.

You should first get some magnification, most any will do, but a 60/100X Carson Micro Brite at $15 will tell you a lot about the condition of the edge and more importantly your progress as you flatten the bevels and bring them to an edge. Starting out, more magnification is better.