Counterfeit Blades?

[Jerry-built Hustler]

No, I don't misunderstand Amazon's role. When I wrote that Amazon will do nothing in regards to counterfeit goods, I meant that they offer no recourse for counterfeit goods purchased from third party vendors. No refunds, no "satisfaction guarantee" or anything of the like. If that has changed, then I apologize. It's been about seven or eight years since this happened. I had to eat about forty dollars on that purchase.

There are essentially three types of Amazon purchases, which boil down to two as far as the return policy goes. The first is where Amazon is the actual seller; perforce, the order is also fulfilled by Amazon, and all standard Amazon return policies apply. The second is a purchase from a third-party seller that uses Amazon for order fulfillment. In this case, all of Amazon's standard return policies also apply. The purchaser is still relying on the actual seller to provide the goods as claimed, but will have pretty good recourse in the event of dissatisfaction. Amazon's return policies are very liberal, and I have zero doubt that if I listed "counterfeit goods" as the reason for a return on an Amazon-fulfilled order (whether the seller was Amazon or a third party), I would not only get a refund of both my purchase price and shipping, but the return shipping would be paid for by Amazon as well. It's as close to no-risk as you can get.

The third type of purchase is a straight third-party sale, where Amazon is merely providing the means of transaction, but is not involved in the actual sale or fulfillment. In these cases, the seller's return policies apply. Technically, those policies are meaningless in the event of a fraudulent sale; under the law, the sale would be void, and you'd be entitled to a refund of your purchase. However, the problem is enforcement. Good luck trying to get a refund from a seller who knowingly defrauded you. At this point, the most Amazon would do is enter as mediator (if they did that much), but their own liberal return policies wouldn't be available to you.

Basically, you're always best off going with a seller you know and trust. Going with an unknown seller through Amazon with an Amazon-fulfilled order is a calculated risk, but with a pretty good safety net. If you purchase straight from the unknown seller (even through Amazon), all bets are off.

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

AFAIK all of the Atra-branded carts sold in Asia were manufactured in India. The Atra has always been sold as The Vector or the Contour in Southeast Asia.

Well, I dunno. It wouldn't make sense for a counterfeiter to go to all the trouble of producing perfect packaging, only to then list an incorrect country of manufacture. That would be like a counterfeiter making a perfect Rolex knock-off that says "made in China" on the dial. I don't see it.

It would be different if Gillette had no manufacturing facilities in China at all. Then we'd know something is off. However, given that they do, given that the packaging has all the hallmarks of authenticity, and - most importantly - given that the cartridges shave as well as I could want them to, I'm going to take a cue from Vanhooglesnort, assume they're real, and not fret over them.

With that said, I will be paying more attention on future purchases. This thread has been a real eye-opener.

 

[DonMac]

There are essentially three types of Amazon purchases, which boil down to two as far as the return policy goes. The first is where Amazon is the actual seller; perforce, the order is also fulfilled by Amazon, and all standard Amazon return policies apply. The second is a purchase from a third-party seller that uses Amazon for order fulfillment. In this case, all of Amazon's standard return policies also apply. The purchaser is still relying on the actual seller to provide the goods as claimed, but will have pretty good recourse in the event of dissatisfaction. Amazon's return policies are very liberal, and I have zero doubt that if I listed "counterfeit goods" as the reason for a return on an Amazon-fulfilled order (whether the seller was Amazon or a third party), I would not only get a refund of both my purchase price and shipping, but the return shipping would be paid for by Amazon as well. It's as close to no-risk as you can get.

The third type of purchase is a straight third-party sale, where Amazon is merely providing the means of transaction, but is not involved in the actual sale or fulfillment. In these cases, the seller's return policies apply. Technically, those policies are meaningless in the event of a fraudulent sale; under the law, the sale would be void, and you'd be entitled to a refund of your purchase. However, the problem is enforcement. Good luck trying to get a refund from a seller who knowingly defrauded you. At this point, the most Amazon would do is enter as mediator (if they did that much), but their own liberal return policies wouldn't be available to you.

Basically, you're always best off going with a seller you know and trust. Going with an unknown seller through Amazon with an Amazon-fulfilled order is a calculated risk, but with a pretty good safety net. If you purchase straight from the unknown seller (even through Amazon), all bets are off.

Well said, & I might add to always use a credit card for your purchases. Some cards also offer a satisfaction guarantee of any products purchased using that particular card. Your also now have another level of recourse.

 

[Tulkinghorn]

I find DE blades to be a niche in the U.S and some parts of Europe, but for most of the world, DE blades are still the most used.
In a place like india where most still shave with a DE, they can sell a counterfeit pack of 100 for 5 bucks cheaper, that 5 bucks is a LOT of money for most people in the world.

This makes a lot of sense. It actually makes me feel better that I'm not just crazy for thinking these blades might be fake. It may be safe to remove my tinfoil hat.

There are essentially three types of Amazon purchases, which boil down to two as far as the return policy goes. The first is where Amazon is the actual seller; perforce, the order is also fulfilled by Amazon, and all standard Amazon return policies apply. The second is a purchase from a third-party seller that uses Amazon for order fulfillment. In this case, all of Amazon's standard return policies also apply. The purchaser is still relying on the actual seller to provide the goods as claimed, but will have pretty good recourse in the event of dissatisfaction. Amazon's return policies are very liberal, and I have zero doubt that if I listed "counterfeit goods" as the reason for a return on an Amazon-fulfilled order (whether the seller was Amazon or a third party), I would not only get a refund of both my purchase price and shipping, but the return shipping would be paid for by Amazon as well. It's as close to no-risk as you can get.

The third type of purchase is a straight third-party sale, where Amazon is merely providing the means of transaction, but is not involved in the actual sale or fulfillment. In these cases, the seller's return policies apply. Technically, those policies are meaningless in the event of a fraudulent sale; under the law, the sale would be void, and you'd be entitled to a refund of your purchase. However, the problem is enforcement. Good luck trying to get a refund from a seller who knowingly defrauded you. At this point, the most Amazon would do is enter as mediator (if they did that much), but their own liberal return policies wouldn't be available to you.

Basically, you're always best off going with a seller you know and trust. Going with an unknown seller through Amazon with an Amazon-fulfilled order is a calculated risk, but with a pretty good safety net. If you purchase straight from the unknown seller (even through Amazon), all bets are off.

My purchase was "Fulfilled by Amazon." So I'll try one more blade to make sure the first one wasn't just a dud and if not try to get a refund.

 

[DaltonGang]

It always helps to look at the history ratings, and comments from buyers, when using Amazon. I don't buy from someone overseas, if they haven't have many many satisfied clients. I prefer eBay, even if I have been burned a few times, by eBay UK and eBay FR sellers.

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

So what's the deal with the yellow Feather 5-packs? I got one tossed in with a razor I bought recently and it looks legit. I also can find multiple vendors selling them online, some with hundreds of good reviews. They can't all be counterfeit can they?

I wish I knew. What I reported earlier (tens are in yellow, fives are in gray) was based on personal experience, and some online research, but hardly an exhaustive amount. If Feather has changed their packaging protocol, I don't know about it, but that certainly doesn't mean what I said is gospel.

 

[Tulkinghorn]

It always helps to look at the history ratings, and comments from buyers, when using Amazon. I don't buy from someone overseas, if they haven't have many many satisfied clients. I prefer eBay, even if I have been burned a few times, by eBay UK and eBay FR sellers.

The comments for the Amazon listing I ordered from were numerous and mostly glowing. But it's really unclear if they all referred to these blades bought from this seller or just Feather blades in general.

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

My purchase was "Fulfilled by Amazon." So I'll try one more blade to make sure the first one wasn't just a dud and if not try to get a refund.

Best of luck. Amazon doesn't list "counterfeit goods" as a reason for return, but "Description on website was not accurate" should get you there. Or you could open a chat with a customer service rep and explain the problem.

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

The comments for the Amazon listing I ordered from were numerous and mostly glowing. But it's really unclear if they all referred to these blades bought from this seller or just Feather blades in general.

There's a difference between product reviews, which are listed on the product/listing page, and seller feedback, which is listed on the seller's information page. Click the name of the seller on the product page, then look to the right of seller's page, where it gives the most recent seller feedback. Click "See all feedback," and you can scroll through the comments. Some people will still use the feedback to talk about the product, but in general the information is more relevant to the seller than going by product reviews.

 

[Tulkinghorn]

There's a difference between product reviews, which are listed on the product/listing page, and seller feedback, which is listed on the seller's information page. Click the name of the seller on the product page, then look to the right of seller's page, where it gives the most recent seller feedback. Click "See all feedback," and you can scroll through the comments. Some people will still use the feedback to talk about the product, but in general the information is more relevant to the seller than going by product reviews.

The seller also appeared to have good feedback, with thousands of positive ratings and comments, including comments along the lines of "great blades!" and the like. Or I should say sellers--adding to the weirdness, there are two completely different seller names that come up alternately whenever I pull up the exact same listing. I'm guessing it's the same company operating under two names, but their information seems totally different other than selling the same products.

In the end I'm probably just going to eat it and chalk it up to experience. I've already wasted way more than $25 of my time on these blades. In the future, I'll just order blades from known vendors rather than just grab the cheapest listing on Amazon. Live and learn.

 

[RustyHammer]

I received 5 blade (in black) yesterday from Thailand ... Seems to match others from other sources. We'll see.

I'm sorry if you got burned. I did a little checking before posting, and every account I've seen is that the ten-blade packs come in yellow, and the five-blade packs are in grey/black. I haven't seen any mention that five-blade packs come in yellow, as well (and in my personal experience, they don't), but I'll stand corrected if someone knows of an exception.

This is nuts. Here I said I've never seen any clear cases of counterfeiting, and it looks as though it's rampant. And for such an inexpensive product (excepting cartridges). I guess I've been lucky. Or, I've been duped and didn't even know it.

 

[DrAwkward]

You already know about the logo, right? The two-feather triangle logo is older than the new "slug logo". That change happened 2011 or a bit earlier: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/244166-Fake-Feathers-or-do-they-have-a-new-logo and http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/277497-What-is-status-of-new-logo-Feathers for example. In those threads some gents thought the slug logo might be counterfeit, but you can see the same logo on the Feather web site, on black five packs for the Japanese market: http://www.feather.co.jp/jGeneral_Mens.htm.

Speaking of markets, Feather seems to sell their blades more cheaply in Thailand than in Japan or the USA. No doubt they would like those discounted blades to stay in Thailand, instead of undercutting other markets: parallel imports or "gray market". Sometimes when this sort of thing happens, the cry "counterfeit" is heard from authorized distributors or retailers. It makes sense from the point of view of an authorized distributor or retailer. These products are undercutting the official prices, and therefore they must be fakes. At the same times there really are some fakes out there: caveat emptor.

Although I spent some time reading material turned up by googling "counterfeit feather blades" I failed to find any of this information. Thanks, Michael, for posting this stuff, I feel much better informed now.
I shaved with one of my Feathers today in a RFB NEW. It was very smooth and sharp, but it is definitely not one of my top five blades. I plan to avoid the controversy by never buying any more Feathers ...

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

In the end I'm probably just going to eat it and chalk it up to experience. I've already wasted way more than $25 of my time on these blades. In the future, I'll just order blades from known vendors rather than just grab the cheapest listing on Amazon. Live and learn.

That's certainly up to you. These things usually go pretty smoothly, though. Amazon will instantly credit you with a refund, and give you thirty days to ship back the return, on their dime. You can use the original shipping box, print out a pre-paid label, make a quick trip to the nearest UPS Store, and Bob's your uncle.

NB: I'm not a shill for Amazon, just a generally satisfied customer who doesn't like to see innocent customers get screwed.

 

[Tulkinghorn]

O.K., I give up. I'm keeping my day job and not going full time as a blade detective. I just shaved again with a different blade from a different pack in the order, and this one was sharp enough and shaved fine and felt like it could well be genuine. So maybe the first one was just a dud. I'm going to stop worrying about it and just use up these blades as I go along and hope the rest of them turn out to be fine.

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

O.K., I give up. I'm keeping my day job and not going full time as a blade detective. I just shaved again with a different blade from a different pack in the order, and this one was sharp enough and shaved fine and felt like it could well be genuine. So maybe the first one was just a dud. I'm going to stop worrying about it and just use up these blades as I go along and hope the rest of them turn out to be fine.

LOL...OK, scratch my previous advice. I'm glad they're working out for you. I'll also put this in the pile of evidence suggesting Feather five-blade packs may come in yellow.

 

[Tulkinghorn]

LOL...OK, scratch my previous advice. I'm glad they're working out for you. I'll also put this in the pile of evidence suggesting Feather five-blade packs may come in yellow.

Well thanks again for all your advice, which has been very wise and helpful. So far, this DE shaving thing is more adventurous than I ever expected!

 

[Tulkinghorn]

Here are my results from a test of shaving with one of the alleged Feather blades I ordered:

The good news: This blade felt as smooth as butter all over my face. With three passes, there was not a single cut, nick, weeper, or sign of irritation.

The bad news: That is because this blade is too dull to cut anything, let alone my beard hair. I'd be surprised to learn it cut a single hair. My sink basin was virtually whisker-free, while my face wasn't.

The verdict: I don't think these can possibly be real.

I took this picture to show the new blades I got compared to the ones from the surely genuine 10-pack I had. The genuine Feather is on the left. The only visual difference I can see at all is that the printing on the actual blade is just ever so slightly more bold than on the genuine Feather:





Editing to update: I now think perhaps the first blade was just a dud rather than fake. I tried shaving with another blade from the order, and it seemed fine. So maybe they are all real. I can't really say and am just more confused than ever.

I'm just posting one more time to say that I take back everything I've said suggesting these blades might be fake, and I now believe they are probably real. I have no way of proving it one way or the other, so take this with a grain of salt. But this morning I shaved with a third blade from the order, and it shaved and felt fine. At any rate, I could tell no difference from the two (AFAIK) genuine Feathers I have used.

I swear I'm not crazy (about this anyway). The first blade I tried was totally dull--I don't mean "too dull to be a Feather," I mean too dull to be a razor blade. Think butter knife vs. steak knife. It must have just been a dud, and a wacky coincidence that it was the first blade I tried when attempting to confirm if these are real.

Summing up:
Tried one blade, which was dull.
Tried two more blades, both of which seem fine, suggesting the first one was just a dud.
I have no reason to believe these aren't real.

 

[DomBangers]

I live in Bangkok and have seen Feathers in a yellow five pack. I've only bought the 10 packs or the black five packs so i can't comment except to say that Thai bought feathers are identical in my experience to Connaught Shaving bought Feathers.

What i do think is that had these blades been copies they'd be really lousy shaves. In the 80's i bought some pricey Gillette cartridges in Hong Kong and they were unusable. I had to throw them in the bin after a couple of painful attempts. It seems odd that someone would use decent blades as copies, and i would expect fakes to be immediately, and obviously fake.

Also, it's more than a little odd that those "copying" the box would confuse a rectangle with a triangle. Why would the graphics guy in charge not spot such a glaring error? I would suggest contacting Feather in Japan and getting their take on it. The yellow boxes are much more attractive than the black ones and it could be they decided to make the new 5 batches all yellow too.

For me it's irrelevant either way. I discovered long ago that the "Thai" Gillette Super Thins (Shanghai made i'm told) give a superior shave to Feather and last longer too.

 

[Early Morning]

There are some obvious fakes on at least one of the Chinese trading sites. In terms of well documented counterfeit blades, I think fake Minora blades qualify. The authorities discovered Chinese counterfeit blades were being shipped into South Africa back in 2001. These blades were actually made of carbon steel (link).

 

[Jerry-built Hustler]

Also, it's more than a little odd that those "copying" the box would confuse a rectangle with a triangle. Why would the graphics guy in charge not spot such a glaring error? I would suggest contacting Feather in Japan and getting their take on it. The yellow boxes are much more attractive than the black ones and it could be they decided to make the new 5 batches all yellow too.

According to multiple user reports, the logo has changed from the triangle to the rectangle, so I don't think that part is a mystery. It's also plausible that Feather is adopting uniform packaging for both their five- and ten-blade packs. There are enough reports in this thread alone to suggest that is a possibility. It makes sense, since there used to be a lot of confusion over the two different packaging schemes; a lot of people thought they were different types of blades entirely. I think Feather has a bit of a marketing issue, though, since nobody really seems to know. A visit to their website offers no help at all, since it's completely lacking in relevant information. If somebody can get the skinny by contacting Feather directly, more power to them. I can't say I'm motivated enough to try to decipher their website to figure out how to do it myself.