Could really use some help with a honing issue…

[Yodascaretaker]

So I’m working on honing a blade, it’s a Dovo “Solingen Best Quality” 6/8 that is in like new condition. I’m at the bevel setting stage, and am using a Shapton Glass 2k HR that I lapped on my DMT DIASHARP Plate. All is good except one thing. The visual of the actual edge is significantly thicker on the front compared to rear of blade. It passes all tests, but I am bothered by how there is such a discrepancy between thicknesses of visual cutting edges between front and back.

I am not new to honing and never faced this issue. I did a perfectly even number of passes on front and back with identical pressure/motions.

Is this something that could be the result of the manufacturing (grind) quality, or is it definitely an issue with my technique? I know photos would help so I’m gonna try getting some. But for now just imagine that the thickness (which is perfectly uniform from toe to heel on both front and back) is just twice as thick on the front of the blade compared to the back.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

-Yodascaretaker

 

[Eben Stone]

I'm new to honing but I've also noticed this. Did you happen to inspect the bevel before you honed it? Sometimes I forget to inspect first, so I have no idea if the blade was already like that or a result of my inexperience. I'm also curious if my pull and push strokes are exactly equal.

 

[Possum092]

I use syns and natural stones, so no good guidance from my end. But I never had any issues either using them. Best of luck.

 

[Steve56]

Sounds like the edge isn’t centered wrt the spine. Put a layer of electrical tape on the ‘fat’ side if it’s bothering you. Not on both sides.

 

[Biltong & Boerewors]

I often get the same issue, and just accept it's a matter of pressure distribution. In other words, it's my technique that's lacking. I like to start honing with circular strokes, and in most cases find that the bevel develops quicker at the front. Maybe it's because I don't want to ride up the shoulder. When I can visually see that here is a significant difference in the bevel width, I start going for up and down strokes focussing on applying more pressure to the back, until I see it is even.

It only really matters at the bevel set stage, after that it's polishing so not an issue.

 

[Steve56]

Ah, sorry, I misunderstood.

 

[rbscebu]

@Yodascaretaker, I am a little confused when you say that the "edge" is thicker. Do you mean that the bevel is wider on one side than the other.

The "edge" should be just a line of zero thickness.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

“The visual of the actual edge is significantly thicker on the front compared to rear of blade. It passes all tests, but I am bothered by how there is such a discrepancy between thicknesses of visual cutting edges between front and back.”

“But for now just imagine that the thickness (which is perfectly uniform from toe to heel on both front and back) is just twice as thick on the front of the blade compared to the back.”

Are you talking about the bevel on the front is not the same thickness as the back?

Are the bevels meeting, no shiny spots when you look straight down on the edge with magnification.

Warp is common with new Dovo’s. Do not use more pressure, that is never the answer.

Yea, post a photo.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

If your bevel is thicker closer to the heal and thinner towards the toe, look at the other side of the blade. Is it just the opisite? This is a sign of a bad grind. These Dovos are not made as nice as they used to make them. Ive seen one that was ground really bad and warped badly. I couldnt even make it shave no mater how it looked.

Post some pictures of the bevel on both sides. Now if its thin on one side and thick on the other but still uniform, then move the edge over. Tape one side or do some high angle honing an even amount of laps on both sides to recenter. Then rehone.

So explain a little more and show some pics. We will get you the help you need.

 

[Empire straights]

Are you saying that the bevel is not the same width down the entire length of the edge? If so I wouldn't worry about that too much if you can get each part of the edge shaving well.

Edit: changed "thickness" with *width* for clarification.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Sounds like the bevel reveal on the front face is two times as wide as the back face. I have never encountered this issue.

If you place the front of the toe in front of your eyes to look at the grind, are the spines on the front and back sides parallel or is the spine on one side higher than the other?

 

[Empire straights]

With trouble razors I've had a few I put on a washita and honed until they were fairly even. That was more so a wonky spine but it did work. I'm no restoration artist though.

 

[Yodascaretaker]

“The visual of the actual edge is significantly thicker on the front compared to rear of blade. It passes all tests, but I am bothered by how there is such a discrepancy between thicknesses of visual cutting edges between front and back.”

“But for now just imagine that the thickness (which is perfectly uniform from toe to heel on both front and back) is just twice as thick on the front of the blade compared to the back.”

Are you talking about the bevel on the front is not the same thickness as the back?

Are the bevels meeting, no shiny spots when you look straight down on the edge with magnification.

Warp is common with new Dovo’s. Do not use more pressure, that is never the answer.

Yea, post a photo.

Hey, thanks for the response. No, the bevels are uniform (respectively), earning that they maintain the same thickness (the reveal) independently on the front and back. So just as a bull**** example number to illustrate, imagine the bevel reveal on the front being perfectly 2 mm thick all the way from heel to toe, but only 1 mm perfectly thick on heel to toe on the opposite (back side of blade face). Two uniform thickness reveal lines on each side, just with the front side (face with etching) being thicker than the rear side by roughly double.

I’m using electric tape on the spine (from start to finish, as to avoid a double bevel), but it actually feels like the spine is more pronounced on the rear of the blade (back face). Gonna update with photos asap.

 

[Tomo]

Keep honing the side with the narrow bevel on a course grit until the two sides even out. Then do one lap each side until the burr is removed. You want to move the apex closer to the side with the thicker bevel. This problem is purely cosmetic.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Sounds like either they didn't hollow both sides evenly at the factory or someone ground one side way back and not the other (made it a biased edge). Get it shaving well and ignore it.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

I am not understanding what you are describing.

A photo will show us all what the problem is.

A photo of each side.

 

[JPO]

If your Dovo is anything like all the Dovo's i have honed, especially those 6/8", and most German made blanks, they are a little warped/curved. They also have a high spot on the spine on each side, see red arrow. If this is allowed to ride up on your stone you lift the heel off your stone and compromise the geometry. You can fix this, or you can keep this part off the stone by using slightly heel leading x strokes.
The belly side of the razor is quite straight forward to hone. You just need to roll your stroke a little to make contact with your edge. If you use half strokes and/or circles without rolling the blade and varying the pressure you will create a frown, because you have more pressure in the middle of the blade. The opposite will be the case on the other side, not good combination.

On the other side, which is more challenging, you do not have contact in the middle of the blade. You are resting on two high spots. Doing aggressive circles and half strokes will probably grind away your heel and toe. You will struggle honing the middle part of the blade. The solution to this, given that the warp is within reasonable limits is to roll the x stroke by not lifting the razor in a roll, but sort of dropping down a little as you move off the stone.

Does it help to use a narrow stone? Yes to some extent, however you need to be aware of what is going on. By using a wide stone you are effectively only using part of the stone when you hone the concave side of the blade. It is not that simple, you can use other strokes as well, including a combination of toe leading and heel leading strokes etc. Doing the same circles or half strokes on a narrow stone might not help much without the basic understanding of what is going on with the geometry of the blade. It is also important to round off/chamfer the edges, especially if you are using a narrow stone. These will act as high pressure points, and is easy to forget.
The belly side is different, but that is not the challenging side.
A narrow stone will just create contact "rails" along the sides of the stone. It can help you, but the principle will be the same.

I am not suggesting you to mark your stones. Just have a mental picture of what areas of you stone will be transferring most of the pressure. This only apply to the concave side of the blade.

If you are not able to hone the razor by using different strokes you may need to do some correction on the spine, and maybe introduce a barely visible smile to be able to get the middle of the blade in contact with the stone.
If it is a new blade there might already be a slight frown in the edge. This will require a little more work, but the same principles will apply.

The German manufacturer does not see this as a defect. They just say that the blade will not be a 100% straight, so instead of doing all this they just use a stone with a slight curve in it.
They are selling smaller sized 5/8" dovo's today to satisfy the consumer who will most likely only use a flat stone. I don't think they are doing the same with the 6/8" blades.

It probably helps if you include a picture of your blade, but i have not seen a new German razor that did not have these issues to some extent. The French razors are a different story

 

[Frank Shaves]

Keep honing the side with the narrow bevel on a course grit until the two sides even out. Then do one lap each side until the burr is removed. You want to move the apex closer to the side with the thicker bevel. This problem is purely cosmetic.

Sounds like either they didn't hollow both sides evenly at the factory or someone ground one side way back and not the other (made it a biased edge). Get it shaving well and ignore it.

If I did not consider the razor to be highly valuable, I would try honing the back side (with the narrower bevel reveal) just to see what happens. Otherwise, I would only focus on getting the razor to shave well and then move on.

 

[Tomo]

If I did not consider the razor to be highly valuable, I would try honing the back side (with the narrower bevel reveal) just to see what happens. Otherwise, I would only focus on getting the razor to shave well and then move on.

Honing the narrow side will even it out. You could do the initial stages with a taped spine until you get close. This would save the bulk of the associated spine wear.

Alternatively you can do 2-3 laps on the narrow side for every 1 lap on the wide side during your regular maintenance. Eventually this will even it out.

 

[Slash McCoy]

This might sound a bit odd, but Dovo's "Best Quality" is actually their worst quality. The higher shelf Dovos are pretty good razors. I have several Dovo Bismarcks, as well as vintage Bismarcks from before they were bought out by Dovo, and the new ones are at least as good as the originals. I rather like them, myself. I SPIT on Dovo "Best"s. I would be ashamed to put my brand on them. Their entry level razors are often very poorly ground. The steel is good, but the grinding sucks. Lots of warpy, twisty blades. The bevel faces will only rarely be symmetrical and consistent. The ones that are just barely barely not-sucky enough to maybe possibly find a home, I think those get branded "Best Quality". Once you get it sorted out, it should be a fine shaver. Until then, you got your work cut out for you.

Don't worry too much about the width of the bevel face. Unimportant. Get those bevel faces intersecting in a nice smooth edge, and then refine and polish. As long as there IS a bevel face, for the entire length of the blade, you got enough steel to hone.