Coticules: do slurry stones matter?

[Chaloney]

So the short version of my coticule history is frustration. They remind me of golf--95 times out of 100 the results are less than satisfying, bot those rare good results keep me wanting more. I started wet shaving with one of the TSS gift sets--straight, strop, coticule, and a couple other accessories. The stone was a la grise and came with a slurry stone. Because of the frustration with getting good edges, but liking the idea and process with a coti, as well as the feel of a good coti edge, I kept coming back to the coti even as I explored and liked other hones. I even bought a couple other vintage cotis that were quite different from the la grise. I got a bit more consistency, but still maybe only 25% decent edges. So I gave up. I've been planning to sell them all, especially with the really good, really easy edges I've been getting lately with a naniwa 3/8k and an Apache strata or an unknown slate (which is almost identical to ekretz's Kuro). I'd been occasionally toying with the idea of trying other slurry stones but always had Jarod (from TSS) in the back of my mind scoffing at the idea, as he does. I also didn't want to buy blind slurry stones and end up with something the same thing I already had. Last week he posted a set of his "ringtones" - hand-selected slurry stones with pics. There were a couple that were clearly distinct from the slurry stone I had so, before I could think better of it, I pulled the trigger. They showed up yesterday and I've now honed 3 different razors. One on the pink tinged stone with the reddish veinette slurry stone and two on the other coti, one with each of the new slurry stones. 3 for 3 very sharp edges--hht 3-4 before stropping, 4-5 after stropping on today's, yesterday's was 3's pre strop, 4's post strop. That's the one I shaved with this am and only noticed that it was a little less sharp than my recent edges going ATG on my cheeks. I'll be testing the other two tomorrow and the next day.

i haven't gone back to my first slurry stone yet, but I will soon. The question for discussion is, however, has anyone else noticed a big difference in slurry stones, or maybe found a "bad" or difficult to use slurry stone?

Edit: forgot pics

the grise and the original slurry stone:

 

[Brianskeet]

My short answer is yes slurry stones matter. I have some pairings that I keep together because of their outstanding results. It can affect speed and feedback as well.

 

[eKretz]

I don't see why differing slurry stones couldn't affect the outcome. Perhaps not in all cases, but I certainly wouldn't dismiss the notion outright.

 

[David]

My short answer is yes slurry stones matter. I have some pairings that I keep together because of their outstanding results. It can affect speed and feedback as well.

+1^^^

 

[Bayamontate]

I believe the slurry stone does make a significant difference.

On my hybridish coticule with my hybridish slurry stone I get maxed out, smooth and aggressive edges, with my Les Latish slurry stone (thanks David,) on the same hybridish stone the aggressiveness is markedly bumped up.

 

[Chaloney]

Thank you for the reassurance that I'm not crazy (well, not any crazier than you guys). I just finished a set of scales for a razor that has been waiting for a year or so and honed it with the red/red combo. Dilucot then water only. Then I flipped it and did another hundred half laps and 30 very light laps on the very purple bbw side. 5 laps stropping on my palm and had easy hht-4's. Stropped and it was all hht 5's-- probably the best hht I've had from any stone. I think the other razors I honed just got bumped back a day. What I really can't believe is that if I had just plunked down $10-20 on a new slurry stone a year ago, I might not have bought a lot of the stones that I have (not many compared to some here, but way more than I ever needed). I still have one on its way now--another supposed thuri from the bay. I'm 0 for two on those so far, although they were still good hones. Now I'll just have to work out what I like the most and then start selling off the rest.

 

[Brianskeet]

Sell a coticule!!! Perish the thought!!

 

[C FrankC]

Sell a coticule!!! Perish the thought!!
View attachment 566593

Shoooot Brian what a wonderful collection of coti's, and to think I have only just acquired my first.

 

[Gamma]

Way I see it, they matter in the sense that each one is a little different.
How much they matter is another story - good luck quantifying the differences. Lol.

I haven't had a 'bad' slurry stone, but I've had slurry stones that I'd rather use with one stone over another.

 

[Legion]

I think the main difference will be hardness. If the slurry stone is harder than the main stone, most of the slurry will be frome the main stone. If it is softer, visa versa.

The slurry properties will match the stone that contributed most of the particles.

 

[SliceOfLife]

What Legion says is definitely true. Softer slurries make raising slurry for dilucot on a harder base stone quite a bit easier.

Also, checking several coti's under the scope has confirmed for me that garnet size varies by a rather huge margin from stone to stone. Perhaps technique can compensate for these differences, perhaps not. It seems that the wide majority of coticules offer a fairly consistent level of sharpness with ease; I would equate this to the standard performance of a coticule with rather large garnets; but coticules do seem to distinguish themselves more and more significantly with more care and practice with any particular example. I certainly have coticules that can attain edges of a quality which others I have can not; under my current level of experience. Given sufficient practice; perhaps I could correct that, perhaps not. Thus I suspect that as skill with a coticule increases; the coticules particular properties, including garnet size, may begin to play a much more important role. The same would likely be true of slurry stones in the cases where you were doing a significant amount of honing on slurry.

 

[aephilli]

I think the main difference will be hardness. If the slurry stone is harder than the main stone, most of the slurry will be frome the main stone. If it is softer, visa versa.

The slurry properties will match the stone that contributed most of the particles.

This is definitely true. My hard green coti only makes slurry from the slurry stone unless using a DMT or les lat hybrid, then the slurry is all green.

 

[Brianskeet]

Shoooot Brian what a wonderful collection of coti's, and to think I have only just acquired my first.

I have more cotis than razors which seems terribly backwards to me, but I have a lot of fun with these rocks. Unknown veins, La Grise, Veinette, Dressante, color variation etc. Coticule stones are amazing in their similarities, but it is their differences that make them fun. I would advise against selling off a stone to quickly. With time and practice stones you once thought to be not suitable will turn out to be fantastic.

 

[aephilli]

I have more cotis than razors which seems terribly backwards ...

*furtively glancing around while beginning to count...*

 

[Chaloney]

I've had great shaves from both stones, one used with each of the new slurry stones. The razor in the pic is an imperial I finally finished cleaning up and rescaling. Honed on the pink-tinged stone and red slurry stone, finished with water only on the bbw side. Turned out a little sharper than the dovo best I honed on the other combination, finishing on water on the coti side. The dovo was a little smoother, though. After all the struggles I've had with coticules for the last two years, I can't believe the ease with which I've gotten edges this good. I'm sure there's still improvement to be made as I figure out the best combinations and finishing method for each, but now I look forward to honing with them rather than dreading it.

 

[gary haywood]

I have more cotis than razors which seems terribly backwards to me, but I have a lot of fun with these rocks. Unknown veins, La Grise, Veinette, Dressante, color variation etc. Coticule stones are amazing in their similarities, but it is their differences that make them fun. I would advise against selling off a stone to quickly. With time and practice stones you once thought to be not suitable will turn out to be fantastic.

This is so true .

 

[Gamma]

Love the Camel.

 

[ShmittyInVegas]

La Grise slurry stone on a La Veinnette coti? Any ideas or thoughts on that matchup?

 

[David]

How hard is the LV?
This is a question for Scott

 

[life2short1971]

Its been my experience that slurry stones matter more on some coticules than others. If you have a a softer coticule and it has larger garnets leading to deeper scratches then it really doesn't matter if you use your hardest finest coticule slurry stone on it because right from the start you will have deep scratches because of the base stone. Now if you have a coticule that is quite hard and fine but you use a slurry stone that is softer and has larger garnets then the slurry will have those garnets or other particles of larger size and it is that much more honing you must do if you hope to remove the scratches left by the contents of the softer slurry stone and whatever is leaving the deeper scratches. I assume its garnet size but what it is doesn't really matter because the point is that particular slurry will always leave deeper scratches when used with any very hard and fine stone.
If you have a slurry stone that is very fine or very hard and fine to the point it only raises a very fine slurry from a base coticule that is equally as fine or finer whether it is a mate to the base stone your using or not it will leave shallower scratch pattern which is removed much quicker and doesn't leave what appears to chips at the edge when they are really the last remnants of the deep scratches left earlier in the process that must now be honed out from the slurry stone that left deep scratches when another slurry stone would not.

I have used slurry stones that I was able to shave comfortably from a stone without using any dilutions or water to finish after the slurry when it was not possible to achieve an equal shave from another slurry stone when used on the same hone and same razor.