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Coticule love... show off your rock

After seeing the pics @Dilbone posted of his cracked bout, I went back over mine with a loupe. Sure enough there were three hairline cracks,

It took me two attempts with CA to get the cracks sealed and lapped. My first attempt with straight CA was apparently too thick to flow into the hairline cracks so I lapped the stone again, applied a diluted CA solution, let it dry for several MORE hours, lapped the stone a third time and things seem much better. The longest crack is still slightly visible but the other two have vanished. I haven't gotten much experience honing on this bout but I sure am learning a lot about lapping stones - that counts, right? :blush:

Maclean I have the exact issue with a stone I just got. Three hairline cracks that can’t be seen without a loupe. They barely catch the blade.

How did you dilute the ca glue?


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David

B&B’s Champion Corn Shucker
9004116A-9737-4D49-A584-8888812FE247.jpeg
 
Maclean I have the exact issue with a stone I just got. Three hairline cracks that can’t be seen without a loupe. They barely catch the blade.

How did you dilute the ca glue?


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Keep in mind I'm still new to working with coticules. I asked both @Dilbone via PM and Jarrod at TSS for advice and got the same suggestions, so here's how it went: I tried straight CA first, let it dry overnight and lapped it - it helped but I wanted to make sure the stone was as stable as possible.
It's probably not the best way to dilute it but I used mineral spirits because that's all I had on hand. I just squirted a heavy dose of CA glue into a small plastic cup (the disposable shot glasses), then added three or four drops of mineral spirits to it with a cheap paint brush - like the ones in kid's watercolor sets. Had to brush it on quickly and when I started to brush the second crack, the brush was already hard, I really just scratched it into the cracks at that point. I'm not even sure it worked that well but I let it dry overnight and lapped it on 600 grit w/d sandpaper the next day, haven't had any problems with honing or the stone falling apart.

Crazy Glue Brand makes a remover/thinner that would probably work better for cutting the CA. If I'm not mistaken, I believe @Dilbone diluted his with acetone.
 

David

B&B’s Champion Corn Shucker
BE2E3C20-33DA-45FB-841D-D318B6F18FCB.jpeg

I use Bob Smith super thin CA. You want it thin enough that it draws down deep into the cracks. I basically just steadily drip it in until it tells me it’s had enough.
 

David

B&B’s Champion Corn Shucker
Where do you keep finding these beautiful stones? Please don't say South Nashville, I'd probably cry lol.
A little antique store just south of nashville. :lol:
I lucked up on that one. I found it in a cheap BIN on eBay with some scissors and a few weck hair shapers.
 
Enjoyed reading this thread, lovely stones. I have a question I'm just starting out with straight shaving, I have a razor that needs sharpening. I was thinking of buying a stone direct from Belgian, would it be worth asking for one which is suitable for a razor, as in being very fine, or is there no way to tell, or are they much the same.

Also does selected or selected plus mean the stone is a finer grit.

Also, what is the smaller size one can get away with. Many thanks
 
Enjoyed reading this thread, lovely stones. I have a question I'm just starting out with straight shaving, I have a razor that needs sharpening. I was thinking of buying a stone direct from Belgian, would it be worth asking for one which is suitable for a razor, as in being very fine, or is there no way to tell, or are they much the same.

Also does selected or selected plus mean the stone is a finer grit.

Also, what is the smaller size one can get away with. Many thanks

IMO most coticules are sort of average finishers/6-8k range, it is worth asking for a coticule specifically for razors. The select plus from ardennes are veinettes which are suppose to be easier to use and usually make good razor hones. The other is unmarked vein usually which is not a bad thing.

For first hone to learn how to sharpen I would suggest getting hone atleast 1.5" wide but ideally 2" wide. Also I suggest trying out different edges before going with coticule as not everyone prefers them. Coticule usually smooth and user friendly side, but not as sharp as other stones can get.
 
I agree with Christian, if you order directly from Ardennes I'd definitely specify it's to be used for razors only. If you do choose to go that route, I'd highly recommend asking for their advice - they know better than anyone which stone(s) would work best for your needs and budget. Just recently, @Dcaddo scored two beautiful Les Latneuses from Ardennes so I'm sure he can offer input on how to order directly and what options are available in doing so.

As to Christian's suggestion to try other types of edges before committing to a system, I whole heartedly agree. I decided to use coticules because, while the synthetic edges I've experienced were possibly sharper than I'm getting with my coti, they felt very harsh (almost "hot") to my face. Some people prefer that ultimate sharpness and others, like myself, prefer the more comfortable edge offered by a coti. Still another option is Japanese Natural stones. I have no experience with them but, as I understand it, they can be nearly as smooth as coti edges while also giving a keener edge.

For synthetic honing advice, I'd recommend searching the Forum for posts by @Slash McCoy. He's a huge proponent of lapping films and pasted balsa strops - probably the most economical of all honing systems.

For Jnat advice, @Doc226 is widely regarded as B&B's resident master of that system. Search for his posts or contact him directly, he offers honing service at a very reasonable price. @Jnatcat, if I'm not mistaken, uses synthetic stones for his honing grunt work and then finishes on Japanese Natural stones. I'm sure he can offer excellent advice on topic as well.

**If you've already tried other types of edges, just disregard my previous rambling. Other reliable options for coticule vendors are The Superior Shave (where I bought mine) and Griffith Shaving Goods (synthetics, coticules and a range of other natural stones).
 
@maclean3 yes I do use synthetics out to usually 8k for the grunt work and then finish on my favorite JNAT, for testing a JNAT I kill the edge then work up either a Atoma slurry or tomo slurry and see how quickly I can reset the bevel and finish using just the one stone, my preference is a fast cutter, the reason for using synthetics for the grunt work is when I have several razors to hone and get back out it’s faster and it’s much easier and cheaper to replace a synthetic than a more expensive JNAT.

Regardless of what system you use it’s best to try all of them ( synthetic, coticule, JNAT ) I find a razor finished on high grit synthetics just a tad to surgical and find a coticule edge ok but just not keen enough for my course hair but have found out that a JNAT edge to be pretty perfect for me, so my suggestion is get an edge finished on each stone system from someone that’s familiar with that particular finish and try the edge, some say they can’t really tell a difference but I can then once you decide you are going to have to put in the time on that particular finisher and not all stones do a great job, I personally have gone thru maybe a dozen JNATS to get the stones that works for me and out of the ones I have I usually reach for my Nakayama Kiita all the time as I know how it performs if I do my part.
 
Thanks for your input William, very much appreciated. I suspected you offered honing service but wasn't entirely sure so I didn't mention it in my previous post. I find Jnats fascinating (and beautiful) but the nomenclature was a bit too intensive for me to understand when I was trying to decide on a natural honing system. I'll likely delve into that rabbit hole in the future, but for now I'll leave it to those with expertise like yourself and doc.
 
I agree with Christian, if you order directly from Ardennes I'd definitely specify it's to be used for razors only. If you do choose to go that route, I'd highly recommend asking for their advice - they know better than anyone which stone(s) would work best for your needs and budget. Just recently, @Dcaddo scored two beautiful Les Latneuses from Ardennes so I'm sure he can offer input on how to order directly and what options are available in doing so.

As to Christian's suggestion to try other types of edges before committing to a system, I whole heartedly agree. I decided to use coticules because, while the synthetic edges I've experienced were possibly sharper than I'm getting with my coti, they felt very harsh (almost "hot") to my face. Some people prefer that ultimate sharpness and others, like myself, prefer the more comfortable edge offered by a coti. Still another option is Japanese Natural stones. I have no experience with them but, as I understand it, they can be nearly as smooth as coti edges while also giving a keener edge.

For synthetic honing advice, I'd recommend searching the Forum for posts by @Slash McCoy. He's a huge proponent of lapping films and pasted balsa strops - probably the most economical of all honing systems.

For Jnat advice, @Doc226 is widely regarded as B&B's resident master of that system. Search for his posts or contact him directly, he offers honing service at a very reasonable price. @Jnatcat, if I'm not mistaken, uses synthetic stones for his honing grunt work and then finishes on Japanese Natural stones. I'm sure he can offer excellent advice on topic as well.

**If you've already tried other types of edges, just disregard my previous rambling. Other reliable options for coticule vendors are The Superior Shave (where I bought mine) and Griffith Shaving Goods (synthetics, coticules and a range of other natural stones).
Just wanted to say thanks for your advice and also advice from Christian, much appreciated. I'm very intrigued by the stones and I'm definitely planning on getting one. One other question how hard are they to lap using sandpaper?
 
Just wanted to say thanks for your advice and also advice from Christian, much appreciated. I'm very intrigued by the stones and I'm definitely planning on getting one. One other question how hard are they to lap using sandpaper?

Yea coticules can be pretty easy to lap. I would try to buy from place that offers refunds. There is a guy on etsy that sells coticules for great prices and I think he offers refunds
 
Just wanted to say thanks for your advice and also advice from Christian, much appreciated. I'm very intrigued by the stones and I'm definitely planning on getting one. One other question how hard are they to lap using sandpaper?

I bought my coti already lapped from The Superior Shave. Since it started flat, keeping it that way has been no problem at all. I bought a 12" sq. polished marble tile for around $5 and a can of Loc-Tite brand spray adhesive (light hold, for a temporary bond) for around $8 - $10 at Lowe's and a pack of 8.5" x 11", 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper from Auto Zone for $15 (5 sheets per pack. They also have multi-packs of one sheet each of 180, 320, 400, 1k and 15k grits). Since I have a small bout (roughly 2.5" x 4.5"), I cut each sheet into 3rds ~ 3.6" x 8" and have plenty of real estate to lap on.

I check my stone for flatness each time before I use it.

I use a steel ruler to check for flatness across the stone (along the width AND length) with a small flashlight behind the ruler. If I see light between the stone and ruler, it needs to be lapped. Here's all I do:

- Thoroughly clean the tile with mineral sprits and a rag (I use disposable "Box O' Rags." They're about $5 to $10 per box of 200 at Lowe's & basically like plush paper towels). Wash off the mineral spirits with dish soap and warm water and dry it well. I only use mineral spirits because I already had a can, acetone would work just as well if not better.

- Lightly spray the tile with adhesive.

- Carefully attach sandpaper starting at a lower corner and roll it onto the tile with my hand. It has to be attached smoothly, no creases, ripples or air bubbles. It's pretty simple but it's critical to get it right.

- Lay the tile over the kitchen sink and turn the tap on cold to saturate the paper, turn off water.

- Carefully lay the stone face down on the paper and rub it lightly in random patterns, without running the stone over the paper's edge. Going slowly, I can feel where the resistance is different - those are the high spots on the stone. As the stone laps closer to "flat" it starts to feel like suction holding the stone to the paper. This is when I start checking for flatness. Just wipe off the stone with another rag, lay it on the counter and use the steel ruler/flashlight like in the beginning. Remember to rinse the coti slurry out of the sandpaper periodically while lapping (just turn on the tap and rub it with your fingers until it looks relatively clean. It helps expose the abrasive particles in the paper and makes lapping quicker).

- Once I'm satisfied the stone's lapped it's just clean up time. Rinse the stone off under the tap, dry it, that's done. It's more important to make sure all the adhesive is cleaned off the tile. I scrub it with a shop rag and mineral spirits until nothing feels grippy or sticky to the touch, wash that off with dish soap and warm water, dry it off and put it away. Making sure all the adhesive is cleaned off means next time I need to use it, I usually only need to wipe it clean of any dust particles that may have settled on it.

It sounds pretty drawn out but, since my stone was lapped when I bought it, once I gather up all my supplies I can usually clean the tile, attach the w/d, have the stone lapped and be cleaned up within 20 to 30 minutes. Vintage stones bought on the auction site or "in the wild" will likely take longer.

The main thing is, you're just making your hone flat, don't over think it.
 
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