Coticule love... show off your rock

Discussion in 'Hones/Honing' started by Drybonz, Jan 6, 2011.

  1. LJS

    LJS

    #3 - a 6” x 1 ¼” that was hidden in oil/dirt in a cheap lot of stones. Have not used much yet. Crack(?) in the coticule side I can’t tell if someone filled or manganese line. No crack/fissure there and almost reflective in the light (see pic). Seems more like filled that manganese to me. Such a pure creamy color I suspected synthetic...but the back side of the stone where glued to BBW isn’t square or perfect. Opinions on natural vs synth welcome.

    13521527-167E-4C24-BF24-C68BEEAC224A.jpeg 4ED2EED3-138F-48D4-A6F7-F33AC627B5E0.jpeg CB9959AC-085E-46CC-9EB5-F4843EE590C1.jpeg EED4023E-F16B-46AC-8AD6-6FE7141F5663.jpeg 1BC6B4F6-C33C-4AB2-AF6A-0289BE532285.jpeg 9A0765B1-61A7-440A-851F-2C35D196B42E.jpeg EB535B48-DB17-4BC1-8E74-52A527E01845.jpeg
     
  2. LJS

    LJS

    #4 - also so pure colored I wondered if synthetic. Another dirty lot find. Decent sized at almost 6 ¾” x 1 ½”. Also not perfect where mated to BBW. Decently hard stone. Opinions on synth vs natural welcome again. On one side there is a sliver of what could be natural BBW line in the coticule.

    E3AC5C52-5AC9-4F4A-836A-64E12F312B27.jpeg 89BC927A-64D6-473D-A88B-4B8142B5C932.jpeg 26FA1258-1F1B-4D4A-86FD-8BF550193B0E.jpeg B62813ED-DD6D-4133-90EC-27523A252197.jpeg FA677631-C72A-497D-90C4-5A778BCE9435.jpeg 0DE5CD80-A46C-45BF-8218-A6A69435EF5B.jpeg 48BA75E5-3807-4100-B56B-09DAEC23871C.jpeg EEAF3AE3-F74C-474A-AF79-B40960FC9F1D.jpeg
     
  3. SliceOfLife

    SliceOfLife Contributor

    So I bought a lot of stones the other day. Not much to mention from it. One soft/hard (depending on what era it's from) arkansas, and these three stones.

    First two are nice glued combo coticules. Neither was dished, but they had a bit of a dip along the center edge, so I freshly lapped them. I've ran one razor over since, and they both feel like nice, fast stones that pull a lot of swarf, but don't seem to autoslurry, and seem to cut pretty shallow. I haven't tested the edge yet, but I suspect they're both similar, great beginner coticules... with the speed to go to after a 1k, and the ability to finish to a nice shaving edge without jumping through hoops. Nothing I need, but not bad little rocks. As you can see the longer one has a bit of a wood grain to it, and this behavior is typical of stones like that in my experience, (the exception being very rare ultra-hard examples that can be excellent finishers).

    The Reason I bought the lot (and it wasn't cheap) is the stone after those two. A gamble that I was 99% sure was either a Pierre Du Sud Ouest, or an ultra-hard coticule... either of which is a score for me. This time it turned out to be the latter... one of the "very rare ultra-hard" wood grained coticules I just mentioned. This was a paddle stone someone cut down (to about 4.5") at some point, but it's still a thick, beefy barbers-hone sized gem. Hasn't touched a razor yet, but I've had enough of these to know that what I've got in my hand is one of the best razor finishers out there. Worth what I paid for the entire lot in my book.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  4. LJS

    LJS

    One more and I will try and leave the coticule thread alone today.

    #5 - very much would like opinions and info on this one. Stamped as you can see. 6” x 1 ¼”. Super heavy for size. The diagonal color you can see l cannot tell if it is stone or swarf I didn’t clean off. Stone is wavy on surface like possibly used with knife or something but still super slick/smooth (not flat) and stamps remain. I can’t figure it out. Again, synth or real. I’m not sure what I will do with this one. I don’t want to destroy the stamps by lapping. But I cannot use this as is.

    F83A77D0-E1E6-47AA-A8DB-E7146CF66951.jpeg ECB7FC0A-7E7E-454A-8AD8-904C3D8B7DC9.jpeg C8A56CBF-BF97-4030-B68A-C3BE6A95EAB5.jpeg 83EB198D-06CE-41BB-8652-151416D7A9F2.jpeg 501901FD-4B34-44E4-A279-0958506B45E6.jpeg 198D47FF-0A53-4F29-BBE5-E3D342610623.jpeg E71F2EB2-85A1-4E20-84EA-EE497C63DC8A.jpeg
     
  5. SliceOfLife

    SliceOfLife Contributor

    Almost looks like the better coti side of Les Lat... any signs of hybrid on the bottom where it is glued to BBW?

    The stone you had in your last post looks like what I'm talking about. Les Latneuses is a coticule vein where instead of Blue/Yellow/Blue layers, it goes Yellow/Green (hybrid)/Yellow. Looking again, I think that (the end picture with the hazy glassy effect between coticule and BBW) is just an epoxy fill... but that's similar to what hybrid looks like... usually a bit less clear and more green.

    The Green/hybrid is similar to marble. Very hard and usually quite fine. It also tends to have a LOT of faults in it, and was basically not used at all historically. Relatively recently people have started honing on it, and it actually became one of Ardennes most desirable stones. In the past it was almost always cut away and the yellow parts used to make glued stones (like yours). Sometimes a bit of it was left in place so they could keep a thicker layer of coticule with some of the gaps filled in with hybrid.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  6. Dcaddo

    Dcaddo Moderator Emeritus

    It's real no doubt. Do what you want, but I would take plenty of pictures of the stamps and then lap them off and use that sucker. ​
     
  7. Dcaddo

    Dcaddo Moderator Emeritus

    Nice stone.
     
  8. SliceOfLife

    SliceOfLife Contributor

    I personally tend to resell stamped stones. They're no better on avg than unstamped ones in my book, and I can use the proceeds to buy 2-10 unstamped stones (depending on the stamp), and then deciding to lap/use it or not becomes someone else's problem.
     
  9. SliceOfLife

    SliceOfLife Contributor

    Thanks, I'm pretty excited for it. Probably will wait a bit to use it though. I just honed up 7 more razors for my barbers hone comparisons... and I have a couple mystery stones that need some testing, as well.
     
  10. LJS

    LJS

    I have not come across one of those that I know of. Thanks for posting that!
     
  11. LJS

    LJS

    Dcaddo & slice - thanks for the reply on those. Interesting on the les lat. I was not aware that is how they used to do it. I have some green ones that are supposedly les lat but was never sure of that. Yes, the end pic is just fill for sure. On one side there is a dark piece in the coti that is manganese like or even dark BBW but not like filler or normal glues used. Agree with both of you on the stamped stone. I am a stone user.....so stamps and even labels leave me torn. I hate to tear up antiques for collectors as few remain......but I use stones. Maybe I will sell that one as you suggested.
     
  12. SliceOfLife

    SliceOfLife Contributor

    I buy every one I can get my hands on. They're rare. I buy coticules and lots specifically looking for them, and I've gotten less than ten in 10 years and maybe 500ish coticules.

    This one may be the hardest yet. :a14:
     
  13. I’ve been really shocked by my Les lat that came from “the baker” in France, it’s probably my most used stone right now and a close call between that and a vintage Norton Trans Ark for best finished edge on my face and beard. It’s the second stone I tried with a useable “hybrid” surface, and it’s a significant step up from any of my standard Cotis in how keen an edge it leaves. Id say a Les lat honing/shave should be a mandatory experience and worth exploring for anyone who likes Arkansas edges and coti edges.

    Now I’m up to 4 Les Lats, about to start playing with hybrid slurry stones on hybrid base stones. Anyone else do that or is the common thing a normal slurry on hybrid base?
     
  14. I like slurry honing on my hybrids. But when using a hybrid slurry stone or a hard and fine coticule bout, the surface can get really glassy on some hybrid stones, you can see it when it reflects light. Then it is too slow I think.
    I prefer to use a synthetic nagura, the surface stays a bit rough. I always finish with plain water. With a very fine DMT you can get a fast slurry, but the resulting edges are not very skin friendly in my experience. I do not use diamond plates with coticules to raise slurry.
     
  15. I was in Munich today and bought some stones. I got about 40 Coticules and two vintage translucent Arkansas. I think the next two years will be a nice coticule test time.
    Some gems on top, very hard natural grown La Dressantes and two Les Lat hybrids glued on BBW.
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  16. Sorry what ? “Some” stones.... I’d hate to see what happened if you bought a lot of stones! :001_302:
    That pinky Hughed one on top with the manganese patterns is a stunner
    Lovely pile of rocks! Are these the ones used for microtomes?
    Rob
     
  17. Thank you. Yes, most of them were used for microtome knives, but stones with manganese not. That probably saved the stone. I was told, earlier, they bought what was available. I think this was not different than today. But today, manganese has a better reputation. Some are even older than 60 years. Unfortunately, many of the best vintage stones I have seen today are worn down to the BBW. Of course, the stones with best results were used until they are through. I picked up the best looking stones. I was told, today, microtome knives are not the main business for them, earlier, they honed 50 knives a day. I was wondering that some Grise looking stones are among them and bought three or four of them. They are way harder than La Grise I had before. Most of them look like typical La Dressantes. Hope they will good for razors.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2019
  18. [​IMG]
    This stone were I thought it is a La Grise is not a Grise in my opinion. It is a very hard stone with a wood grain pattern and quite fast, I think that excludes a grise, although it has a typical grise-smooth transition line.
    The Arkansas were used for the final finish of section knives and are really dense and ultra smooth. They are pure white, the grey comes from old petroleum residues. They are completely different from a grey "Original Hard Arkansas" I bought not long ago from Amazon. The new hard Arkansas is more a coarse porous stone and not fine enough for shaving.
     
  19. I just found the right English translation for the knives that were honed on the trans Arks, they are called dissecting knives. I saw a lot at the workshop were I bought the stones, they can vary greatly in size. Some are like small scalpels, some blades are about 8" long. I must admit that looking at such a number of surgical instruments was a bit creepy. But the gentlemen who sold the stones is a great guy.
    This big stone (10"x2 2/5") was bought in 1960. It is a best quality coticule, I think La Dressante, but who knows. The knowledge of the veins appears to have widely gone lost from stones mined in the 50s or 60s. I saw a inscription "Ligne Bleu - Extra" on a stone, I have never heard that before. Unfortunately, this one was not for sale.
    This stone shows how difficult it can be to cut large stones from thin layers of the rock. Fortunately, the deep black BBW is ultra hard and fine on this stone. There are not that large red garnets that can be seen on most BBW. I will test it further, but I think it will not be necessary to cut the ends to get great shaving edges.
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    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019

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