Coticule ID please

[SammieM]

Hello,

I got this coticule a while back as vintage coticule. The seller didn’t know vein name etc. I used it as a finisher. It provides a decent edge, but nowhere as nice as my Okudo tomae sold by Alex. The shave is very comfortable although a bit tuggy. When used with water no slurry is produced. It is flat as glass. I get a bit of sticky feeling after a few laps on water. The edge seems like it has scratches. It is not mirror, although I use light strokes. It is glued to either BBW or Lorraine. Not sure... Any idea as to which vein it is? Any info is much appreciated.

Regards,

 

[iamryan25]

I like Henk Bos's wine bottle analogy for vintage coticules,

"An old bottle of wine without a label remains just an old bottle of wine."

from Henk Bos's Grinding and Honing Part 4.

 

[SammieM]

I just read that. lol. I couldn’t edit the article. I should have said an “old” coticule. Thank you!

 

[SliceOfLife]

Those glittery flecks (the bright spots on the surface) always worry me on coticules. Tend to suggest larger than typical garnets in my experience. Doesn't indicate any particular vein in vintages that I'm aware of. I've noticed them on more than a few LNV from Ardennes.

 

[SammieM]

Could they be silica that is suspended in between the mica? Is silica reflective?

Those glittery flecks (the bright spots on the surface) always worry me on coticules. Tend to suggest larger than typical garnets in my experience. Doesn't indicate any particular vein in vintages that I'm aware of. I've noticed them on more than a few LNV from Ardennes.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Don't know myself. I know that they don't break free in that size obviously (that'd be like 60-300 grit abrasive)... but of the hard to finish on coticules I've owned... every single one had those. I've had a few that had them that weren't hard to finish on... but not many.


My guess is someone knows what they are. Bart I'd bet does, if he's still around anywhere. I just avoid buying stones with them anymore.

 

[SammieM]

So, I shouldn’t disqualify the Coticules yet. It might have something to do with my technique as well, but the edges are a bit tuggy. The JNAT is like a light sabre and much smoother that the coti edge I get..
Thank you!

Don't know myself. I know that they don't break free in that size obviously (that'd be like 60-300 grit abrasive)... but of the hard to finish on coticules I've owned... every single one had those. I've had a few that had them that weren't hard to finish on... but not many.


My guess is someone knows what they are. Bart I'd bet does, if he's still around anywhere. I just avoid buying stones with them anymore.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Coticules vary close to if not as much as Jnats. The very very low end ones are pretty rare, so they cluster a bit more towards the top (JNat does include a much more fleshed out range, even if we mostly focus on the finishers here)... but they vary... a lot.

Honestly, the three most variant camps of razor hones are:

Jnats, Coti's, Barber Synths, in no particular order.

 

[iamryan25]

So, I shouldn’t disqualify the Coticules yet. It might have something to do with my technique as well, but the edges are a bit tuggy. The JNAT is like a light sabre and much smoother that the coti edge I get..
Thank you!

It has been my experience that most underwhelming coticule edges are simply under finished. With coticules it seems like the learning curve can take longer with some stones compared to others. Sometimes with some stones there may be some early feedback indicators that lead someone to think all work is done when more work needs to be done. Give it a few more trial runs, vary your pressure, take a little more time, experiment with your stropping in the final stages. I've had stones that have a similar surface appearance to yours that have delivered outstanding edges. Keep us updated!

TBF, assuming maximum sharpness is achieved on either stone, I would expect the tomae from Alex to feel sharper in a contest between the two.

 

[kcb5150]

I have had a few vintage that looked like that which weren't by any stretch the finest coticules. You just have to keep experimenting.

 

[SammieM]

Thank you all!

 

[ajduplessis]

It difficult if not impossible to identify. If I had to take a guess it would be a la Grosse Blanche with discoloration, possibly continued exposure to direct sunlight over time.

Does it cut quickly? Does the slurry have a soapy texture?

Try lather instead of water...

 

[SammieM]

It difficult if not impossible to identify. If I had to take a guess it would be a la Grosse Blanche with discoloration, possibly continued exposure to direct sunlight over time.

Does it cut quickly? Does the slurry have a soapy texture?

Try lather instead of water...

I am suspecting the same, but some La dressante get discoloured too.
I haven’t seen slurry yet. I did 100 laps and barely any change in the colour of the water. No swarf at all. It feels like glass... I’d venture a guess that is a very slow stone and very hard... I have tried dishwashing detergent. Better edges than water, but still tuggy a bit, albeit comfortable.